FINDING COMMON GROUND IN DANIEL

[MorningGlory]

2 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi MorningGlory,

Russia - Oh the `cuddly bear,` as shown on the Moscow Olympic games Poster. (1979) Yet we know that the Soviet Communists have a history of wars, confrontations & invasions. The KGB executions in prisons & concentration camps - estimated at 40 million people. So the `Bear` is quite a ferocious one. However we know from God`s word that Russia & its Federation get dealt with by God on the mountains of Israel at the beginning of the tribulation. (Ez. 38 & 39) Thus I do not see the `terrifying beast` as the Russian Bear.

Want to try again. Marilyn. 

Well there aren't really many 'rising' powers today.....maybe Iran or Turkey?  China has no connection to Assyria and they are the 'East' anyway as is North Korea and Japan.  India and Pakistan are in South Asia.  Doesn't leave too many others.

[unworthydude]

Serving, I love your harmonization of the Word. There s so much scripture to do this to. I love it! You are on the right path friend. Go on... You got me loving where you are headed. You got me hungry and I've got my forks out ready to feast into the Word!!

I especially like that you are able to read the Word above what man teaches. Yup smh up and down

Edited January 9, 2016 by unworthydude

[Marilyn C]

2 hours ago, MorningGlory said:

Well there aren't really many 'rising' powers today.....maybe Iran or Turkey?  China has no connection to Assyria and they are the 'East' anyway as is North Korea and Japan.  India and Pakistan are in South Asia.  Doesn't leave too many others.

Hi MorningGlory,

You are doing a good job of elimination -

It`s not the far North - Russia (& its Federation & Iran & others) whose army (5/6ths) get wiped out. (Ez. 39: 2)

It`s not the West - Britain, USA & Europe, already great powers.

It`s not the East - China etc. (Kings of the East)

It`s not the South - Africa.

 

Well is there any part of the world left that is a rising power? It has to be just north of Israel. The `king of the North` refers to the legacy of Alexander the great - the Seleucid dynasty identified as Assyria. So let`s have a closer look.

 

Which religion is probably the fastest growing in the world?

Which is the second largest non governmental organisation besides the UN?

Who is able to devastate the world`s oil prices?

Who has the tallest building in the world?

Which group will be the largest (of the two) after Shite Iran is knocked out of the equation?

Which group, although splintered, will be a powerful force when their awaited `Messiah` figure arises?

Who is truly terrifying, (`dreadful, terrible & extremely strong,` Dan. 7: 7) & is the most descriptive word used for them - terror - ists.

........etc...etc....etc

 

mmmmm...................Marilyn.

 

 

 

 

 

[Serving]

14 hours ago, WilliamL said:

No objections at all. Just waiting for you to stick your neck out all the way. 

Will return after the Sabbath to see how this develops. Please keep on truckin'.

LOL .. I bet .. I'm under no illusions that I'm putting my neck on the chopping block .. somebody is going to start swinging that axe sooner or later.

Thanks WilliamL.

[Serving]

13 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Serving,

Am appreciating what you are saying here, so far, bro.

 

 

 

God is showing us, I believe, the `process,` the development,t of this `terrifying beast` kingdom, super power of today.

Marilyn.

Thanks Marilyn,

What I'm saying "So far" being the key  still plenty of time to go south yet .. let's see how long this "appreciation" lasts hehehe

I agree, God is showing us all the power structure taking shape.

 

[Serving]

8 hours ago, unworthydude said:

Serving, I love your harmonization of the Word. There s so much scripture to do this to. I love it! You are on the right path friend. Go on... You got me loving where you are headed. You got me hungry and I've got my forks out ready to feast into the Word!!

I especially like that you are able to read the Word above what man teaches. Yup smh up and down

Thanks for that U.D,

But give me a little more time and those forks in your hands could quite rapidly become clubs

But I take it you are happy enough with the basic outline and agree it is sufficient enough for "everybody" to agree on?

 

[Serving]

Since there are four who have replied all up so far, that's good enough reason for me / us to carry on then .. 

 

OUR agreed standard we are going by :

Daniel 7:20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.

 

Here we go ..

 

Quote

Daniel 7:20 And of the ten horns that were in his head

'Head'.. SINGULAR .. Notice only one head has 10 horns (from the 7 headed dragon), some interpretations spread the 10 horns over all seven heads which is clearly not what scripture says, unfortunately millions of adherents of particular denominations have fallen for that simple error and as a consequence have confused the entire meaning that God is conveying .. but we don't have to .. this is actually very significant in regards to correlating Revelations scriptures, please keep this in mind ..

 

Last Daze pointed out I had jumped the gun by mentioning the 7 headed dragon in the above .. how it was not mentioned in Daniel 7:20 except by me .. he was right.

Which made me realise maybe not everybody might agree that the head being mentioned above is of the 7 headed dragon of Revelations .. but that's just a hunch, Daze could have just been being thorough, which he was.

Anyway, since 7 years of forums and many hundreds of debates & conversations and reading other's views & conversations, I noticed that pretty much every 'opponent' all agreed, once going through the debating process and after some years of constant exposure to the subject, that the above head is in fact one of the seven heads of the Dragon of Revelations .. that is, one of the seven empires .. just as I agree .. so I just took it for granted that everybody else already agreed, but I might have presumed too much?

Now just because the majority believe something doesn't make it true, Think of Isaiah & Jeremiah & etc etc etc .. so I'm not appealing to authority here, it was just an honest assumption on my part that the head was taken for granted as being of the 7 headed dragon of Revelations.

So already at the start, the HEAD must be confirmed just in case. 

So I will give a very brief account as to WHY I and most others believe Daniel 7:20 is in fact the description of ONE of the heads from the seven headed dragon in Revelations. 

The main reason, first, is that the only other place where HEAD(s) are mentioned that have HORNS on them, besides Daniel, is of course the account of the 7 headed beast in the book of revelations .. so we have an established and exclusive link there already for purposes of working out this 10 horned HEAD with it's "another horn" and what it relates to, since Revelations IS the only other book which deals with HEAD(s) having horns.

And since the 7 headed dragon concerned nations / empires, and revealed therein ONE HEAD of the seven headed beast had, in fact, 10 HORNS on it's HEAD, exactly like in Daniel .. not only that, this head in revelations was in fact shown to be the last empire itself (since only the last empire has the false prophet and beast empire TOGETHER which try to fight Christ at His coming) THEN, the other 6 heads by default, become PAST heads (mountains / empires) for all of us of today.

And if they are PAST head(s), and Daniel speaks of a Head (SINGULAR just like in Revelations 13) with 10 horns .. then obviously those head(s) have to be in Daniels FUTURE ..which is exactly what we see when reading Daniel because those four beasts were told Daniel that they SHALL arise .. shall = to come.

And THAT is the reason why there are only FOUR beasts in Daniels vision .. because out of 7 empires, all we'd expect to see in Daniels future (since he was already in Babylon), would be exactly FOUR empires (heads) left to go .. a perfect match right there. 

Just like king Nebs dream .. why only mention 5 empires and not 7?

Because the previous 2 other empires had already PASSED .. not forgetting Nebs dream only referred to 'what was to come" being explained that his empire nevertheless WAS included in his dream since Neb wondered about his kingdom too, ie, the vision concerned what is to come for Babylon AND in the FUTURE AFTER Babylon and not what was already PAST.

That is a very basic run down as to WHY I mentioned the 7 headed beast prematurely assuming everybody would already agree anyways.

So .. do I need to give a detailed account of the brief explanation above?

Did I even need mention it? (maybe not)??

Do we all agree and shall I begin now?

Please let me know .. thanks guys.

 

 

 

 

[Sister]

17 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi MorningGlory,

I believe it is a current power that is arising - `dreadful & terrible, exceedingly strong. It had huge iron teeth; it was devouring, breaking in pieces, & trampling the residue with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it,....` (Dan. 7: 7)

Also as God`s word says that its leader is the `Assyrian` the `King of the North,` & the `King of Babylon,` it is pretty clear not only from God`s word but from what is already happening across the world, as to who this `terrifying beast` is.

Thank you for asking, Marilyn.

Marilyn

 Jeremiah 15:11   The LORD said, Verily it shall be well with thy remnant; verily I will cause the enemy to entreat thee well in the time of evil and in the time of affliction.

  Jeremiah 15:12   Shall iron break the northern iron and the steel?

  Jeremiah 15:13   Thy substance and thy treasures will I give to the spoil without price, and that for all thy sins, even in all thy borders.

Iron doesn't break iron, it sharpens it?

Proverbs 27:17   Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.

Only Christ can break this iron.

 

 Daniel 8:19   And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.

  Daniel 8:20   The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.

  Daniel 8:21   And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.

  Daniel 8:22   Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power. 

(Who came up next strong out of the four?  Rome of course, king of the North back then.)

  Daniel 8:23   And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

(in the latter time of the king of the North's kingdom.  Rome is gone, but joined to Europe now,  so it's a modern day Roman empire consisting not of one king, but 10)

Go to the iron in King Nebs dream.  It goes from the legs all the way down to the feet and toes. It's still mixed in there with the clay.  The iron is the strongest part of the mix.  This can not be a muslem empire.

 Daniel 2:42   And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.

Daniel 2:40   And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.
 

I hope you can see what I am trying to show you.

[MorningGlory]

13 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi MorningGlory,

You are doing a good job of elimination -

It`s not the far North - Russia (& its Federation & Iran & others) whose army (5/6ths) get wiped out. (Ez. 39: 2)

It`s not the West - Britain, USA & Europe, already great powers.

It`s not the East - China etc. (Kings of the East)

It`s not the South - Africa.

 

Well is there any part of the world left that is a rising power? It has to be just north of Israel. The `king of the North` refers to the legacy of Alexander the great - the Seleucid dynasty identified as Assyria. So let`s have a closer look.

 

Which religion is probably the fastest growing in the world?

Which is the second largest non governmental organisation besides the UN?

Who is able to devastate the world`s oil prices?

Who has the tallest building in the world?

Which group will be the largest (of the two) after Shite Iran is knocked out of the equation?

Which group, although splintered, will be a powerful force when their awaited `Messiah` figure arises?

Who is truly terrifying, (`dreadful, terrible & extremely strong,` Dan. 7: 7) & is the most descriptive word used for them - terror - ists.

........etc...etc....etc

 

mmmmm...................Marilyn.

 

 

 

 

 

So you're saying, rather than a country, it's the loose federation of terrorist groups like Al Queda and Hamas?

[Last Daze]

2 hours ago, Serving said:

And since the 7 headed dragon concerned nations / empires, and revealed therein ONE HEAD of the seven headed beast had, in fact, 10 HORNS on it's HEAD, exactly like in Daniel .. not only that, this head in revelations was in fact shown to be the last empire itself (since only the last empire has the false prophet and beast empire TOGETHER which try to fight Christ at His coming) THEN, the other 6 heads by default, become PAST heads (mountains / empires) for all of us of today.

And if they are PAST head(s), and Daniel speaks of a Head (SINGULAR just like in Revelations 13) with 10 horns .. then obviously those head(s) have to be in Daniels FUTURE ..which is exactly what we see when reading Daniel because those four beasts were told Daniel that they SHALL arise .. shall = to come.

And THAT is the reason why there are only FOUR beasts in Daniels vision .. because out of 7 empires, all we'd expect to see in Daniels future (since he was already in Babylon), would be exactly FOUR empires (heads) left to go .. a perfect match right there. 

Just like king Nebs dream .. why only mention 5 empires and not 7?

Nebuchadnezzar's dream speaks of a succession of four kingdoms beginning with Babylon.  Babylon was already a kingdom at that time.

• As for you, O king, while on your bed your thoughts turned to what would take place in the future; and He who reveals mysteries has made known to you what will take place.  Daniel 2:29

So, it's not necessary that the entire prophecy be set in the future, only that it speaks about the future.  It begins with the kingdom that "is" and addresses what is future.  I see the same being true of the four beasts in Daniel 7 and that they speak of the same four kingdoms, albeit from different perspectives.

I think that before we move on from taking a head count we need to figure out why Neb's dream only mentions four kingdoms yet we attribute five to it.  How are the legs of iron and the feet of iron and clay seen as one kingdom?  Rome hasn't been a kingdom for centuries.  From a natural perspective, the fourth kingdom of Rome is over.  The way I see it, the common denominator is the prince of Rome, the evil angel angel that spawned the legs of iron.  He began the fourth kingdom and before it was fully brought to fruition, he was cast into the abyss.  The gospel goes forth as Rome declines.  After the gospel is preached around the world this prince is released from the abyss to resume the fourth kingdom which is described as the feet of iron and clay.

I say that because I see the fourth beast in Daniel 7 as responsible for one kingdom that happens to have two manifestations because his kingdom was interrupted while the gospel went forth.  The first manifestation we know as Rome.  The second is known as the U.N., at least for now.  It will transition.  So with respect to the seven heads, I see the fourth beast in Daniel 7 as responsible for head #6 and head #7.

• The beast that you saw was [Rome], and is not [cast into abyss], and is about to come up out of the abyss [bring about feet of iron and clay] and go to destruction.  Revelation 17:8