Is the doctrine of the Trinity biblical?

[Reinitin]

6 minutes ago, thereselittleflower said:

 

You just stabbed yourself in the foot.

What you quoted doesn't promote Jesus and Mary being Gods

It does THE EXACT OPPOSITE.

 

Did you even read what you posted?

 

 

Yes, I did read what I quoted. I didn't expand on what i was referring to "islam believing" and i wrote a sloppy sentence so you assumed my sentence (written without proper context) was saying that Islam believes or worship a trinity. I was referring to Islam believing the christian trinity was "father, mother, son of paganism" not the Father, Son, Holy Spirit trinity of Christianity.  Even though the council of Nicea officially defined the Holy Trinity as Father, Son and Holy Spirit in 325 a.d. Pagan worship had entwined itself so deeply with Christianity by 600 a.d. The local tribes and mohammed only saw the worshipped trinity as father, mother son. Honestly, today I see the worshipped catholic trinity today as father, mother, son of paganism even though they say, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

If you read everything I wrote you will see other sloppy mistakes in sentences because i just typed it out quickly. If I am the author even if I didn't articulate it to your understanding I still am aware of what point i was trying to make. You misunderstood my original sentence and are wanting to argue about a meaning I didn't even think when I wrote it..

[Willa]

On 2/6/2016 at 7:50 PM, Ezra said:

Clearly SinnerSaved rejects the doctrine of the Trinity (as well as several other fundamental doctrines). This thread is not even in the "Controversial Issues" section but in the Defence of the Gospel section. Yet we have naysayers coming along to tell Christians that the doctrine of the Trinity is not a Christian doctrine. But we know from Scripture that it is integral to 

The defense of the Gospel section is in the "outer court" where even unbelievers may post.  

[thereselittleflower]

5 minutes ago, Reinitin said:

Yes, I did read what I quoted. I didn't expand on what i was referring to "islam believing" and i wrote a sloppy sentence so you assumed my sentence (written without proper context) was saying that Islam believes or worship a trinity. I was referring to Islam believing the christian trinity was "father, mother, son of paganism" not the Father, Son, Holy Spirit trinity of Christianity.  Even though the council of Nicea officially defined the Holy Trinity as Father, Son and Holy Spirit in 325 a.d. Pagan worship had entwined itself so deeply with Christianity by 600 a.d. The local tribes and mohammed only saw the worshipped trinity as father, mother son. Honestly, today I see the worshipped catholic trinity today as father, mother, son of paganism even though they say, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

If you read everything I wrote you will see other sloppy mistakes in sentences because i just typed it out quickly. If I am the author even if I didn't articulate it to your understanding I still am aware of what point i was trying to make. You misunderstood my original sentence and are wanting to argue about a meaning I didn't even think when I wrote it..

I appreciate you clarifying.   If you write something sloppily and people think you said something you didn't, then just say so and apologize.

However you actually said this:

• Even Islam believes in the holy trinity of Father Son and Mary. 

 

Soooo . . .  are you saying this is not what you meant to say?

 

 

 

 

[HAZARD]

1 hour ago, thereselittleflower said:

He did not "ask"

He commanded.

• Jhn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

"glorify" is a verb.   In the Greek this word is 

δοξάζω doxazō

Tense: Aorist
Voice: Active
Mood: Imperative

 

Notice the mood  - IMPERATIVE

• The imperative mood corresponds to the English imperative, and expresses a command to the hearer to perform a certain action by the order and authority of the one commanding. 

 

 

in another thread you claim Jesus, God the Son, is beneath God the Father rather than being Co-Equal with the Father.

 

Yet here is God the Son, Jesus, commanding God the Father regarding His glory.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ha, ha, ha, you believe this?  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  John 17: 1, These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, ME,, the hour is come; glorify thy ME, that I also may glorify ME:
   

2, As I hast given ME power over all flesh, that I should give eternal life to as many as I hast given ME.
   

3, And this is life eternal, that they might know ME the only true God, and ME, whom I hast sent.
   

4, I have glorified ME on the earth: I have finished the work which I gavest ME to do.

  5, And now, O ME, glorify thou ME with MY own self with the glory which I had with ME before the world was.

Tell me, which part of God has the glorified flesh and bone body as Christ revealed to Thomas and the disciples? Jesus, who was the Word in the beginning, said He no longer had a spirit body as He had when He was the Word.

Luke 24:39, Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

This Jesus, in His flesh and bones body now sits at the right hand of the Father who remained in Heaven and is still there on His throne.

Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Eph.  1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

And poor Stephen, he must have been dazed from the rocks hitting him on the head for he saw Jesus and the Father standing together, in bodies? or these scriptures are UNBELIEVABLE and should be struck out of our bibles.

Acts 7:55, But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
   

Acts 7:56, And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. He must have had legs to stand on, and the father had a right hand at least.

[Willa]

On 2/6/2016 at 8:59 AM, Reinitin said:

I know Jesus said before Abraham was "I AM" and I know what that means. I know that Jesus said, " If you have seen me you have seen me you have seen my Father. I understand man is a vessel and in the flesh (but had no sin) The Lord was truly man containing the Eternal Spirit of the One True God. I also Know "He would be called Wonderful Counselor, Prince of Peace, Everlasting Father, Almighty God. I know that God Said "Let us make man in our image and the Spirit hovered over the Water. I Know Jesus had to go so the Holy Spirit could come to finish His Work. But, I also know believing in the trinity doctrine and fighting with people over words has no promise for salvation attached to it. When I called on Christ to save me all i knew was Romans 10:13 Whosoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. I knew nothing about God. I knew I was in danger of His judgment though. I knew I was Lost, I knew I needed His help. He came in and dwelt with me before I ever heard of the trinity. So It's not believing the trinity or understanding the trinity that saves anyone, The Lord does. No one can teach men "know God" the Lord teaches us from the inside of each of us that belong to him, we become like Him truly sinful flesh covered by His righteousness But sealed and filled by His eternal Spirit  . He puts his word in our heart and reveals truth to us by the counsel of His Spirit within us. No one who has put their faith in Christ will be forsaken. But, I imagine people who put their faith in their knowledge of the trinity and have withheld Christs salvation from men with fights over doctrine and words will be saying "Lord Lord" and hear from Him "depart from me you workers of iniquity on the great and terrible day of the Lord..

In short. Rat poison is 99.4% corn. It is that little bit of poison added to the bait that kills. Satan bates with truth but ads a damnable false belief that has no power to save. Trinity Doctrin has no power to save it is a teaching not the Gospel.

It is true that when the Holy Spirit shows us our need of a Savior and we call out to God for help, knowing that without Him we have no hope, that many of us have very little knowledge of the Gospel or of doctrine.  I didn't.  But that fact remained that untill I received that kind of teaching I had little understanding of the Bible.  Understanding the essentials of the Trinity opened my understanding to much of the Bible, shedding light on many Scriptures.  Likewise, understanding that salvation and is a gift from God, and even faith is a gift from God, freed me from trying to be "good enough" to go to heaven.  I was a mess before receiving some solid teaching.  The last part of the puzzel that opened my understanding was learning to walk after the Spirit, following His inspiriation and leading as supported by Scripture...  This freed me from the "oh wretched man that I am" syndrome of the last of Romans 7.     

The point that I am making is that such teaching is not key to initial salvation, which is by grace alone through faith, but it is key to our spiritual understanding of Scripture and growth as a Christian.  We can't grow in love till we begin to comprehend God's love for us and for the most unlovable people we know, as well.  And we can't really know God intimately apart from Scripture.  

[Reinitin]

23 minutes ago, thereselittleflower said:

I appreciate you clarifying.   If you write something sloppily and people think you said something you didn't, then just say so and apologize.

However you actually said this:

• Even Islam believes in the holy trinity of Father Son and Mary. 

 

Soooo . . .  are you saying this is not what you meant to say?

 

 

 

 

Yes I did.. If I slowed down and was paying attention it would of said this...Even Islam believes Christians believe in the holy trinity of Father Son and Mary.  Sorry if I was rude it took me a minute to figure out what your problem was.

[Ezra]

8 minutes ago, Willa said:

The point that I am making is that such teaching is not key to initial salvation, which is by grace alone through faith, but it is key to our spiritual understanding of Scripture and growth as a Christian.  

Willa,

The true Gospel cannot be proclaimed without proclaiming that Jesus is God who died for man.  So this is a key teaching even for initial salvation. When we read "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved", the preacher or evangelist or ordinary Christian must let the unbeliever know that Jesus is Lord because He is God, and Jesus is also Christ because He is God. So there we already have the two persons of the Godhead, and it is a false notion that this is not essential for salvation. 

When Peter told the Jews on the Day of Pentecost that God (the Father) had made this same Jesus both Lord and Christ (Acts 2:36), to th Jews it would have meant both God and Christ, since they only believed in one Lord and one God.

[thereselittleflower]

29 minutes ago, Ezra said:

 

42 minutes ago, Willa said:

 

The point that I am making is that such teaching is not key to initial salvation, which is by grace alone through faith, but it is key to our spiritual understanding of Scripture and growth as a Christian.  We can't grow in love till we begin to comprehend God's love for us and for the most unlovable people we know, as well.  And we can't really know God intimately apart from Scripture.  

 

Willa,

The true Gospel cannot be proclaimed without proclaiming that Jesus is God who died for man.  So this is a key teaching even for initial salvation. When we read "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved", the preacher or evangelist or ordinary Christian must let the unbeliever know that Jesus is Lord because He is God, and Jesus is also Christ because He is God. So there we already have the two persons of the Godhead, and it is a false notion that this is not essential for salvation. 

When Peter told the Jews on the Day of Pentecost that God (the Father) had made this same Jesus both Lord and Christ (Acts 2:36), to th Jews it would have meant both God and Christ, since they only believed in one Lord and one God.

 

Willa, I have to agree with Ezra.

Can one become saved by becoming a Mormon?  Or a Jehova's Witness?

The Trinity is central to the Christian faith.

The Trinity is CHRISTOLOGICAL - it tells us who Christ is.

Without understanding who Christ is, how do we believe on Him?  How do we know WHO to believe on?   Is he a created being and satan's brother as some claim?  OR is He the Uncreated, Eternally Pre-existing God, God the Son?    

Did he put on flesh like coat to be discarded later as the gnostics claim?  Or did He Truly become the God-man?  Did He truly become God made flesh, fully God and fully man?

How do we know he's not the Christ of the Mormons,  or the Jehovah's Witnesses,  or any other cult?

 

This is why the Trinity and what is contained in the Creed are central to Christianity and our salvation.

 

 

 

 

[Guest Thallasa]

4 hours ago, Reinitin said:

I know Jesus said before Abraham was "I AM" and I know what that means. I know that Jesus said, " If you have seen me you have seen me you have seen my Father. I understand man is a vessel and in the flesh (but had no sin) The Lord was truly man containing the Eternal Spirit of the One True God. I also Know "He would be called Wonderful Counselor, Prince of Peace, Everlasting Father, Almighty God. I know that God Said "Let us make man in our image and the Spirit hovered over the Water. I Know Jesus had to go so the Holy Spirit could come to finish His Work. But, I also know believing in the trinity doctrine and fighting with people over words has no promise for salvation attached to it. When I called on Christ to save me all i knew was Romans 10:13 Whosoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. I knew nothing about God. I knew I was in danger of His judgment though. I knew I was Lost, I knew I needed His help. He came in and dwelt with me before I ever heard of the trinity. So It's not believing the trinity or understanding the trinity that saves anyone, The Lord does. No one can teach men "know God" the Lord teaches us from the inside of each of us that belong to him, we become like Him truly sinful flesh covered by His righteousness But sealed and filled by His eternal Spirit  . He puts his word in our heart and reveals truth to us by the counsel of His Spirit within us. No one who has put their faith in Christ will be forsaken. But, I imagine people who put their faith in their knowledge of the trinity and have withheld Christs salvation from men with fights over doctrine and words will be saying "Lord Lord" and hear from Him "depart from me you workers of iniquity on the great and terrible day of the Lord..

In short. Rat poison is 99.4% corn. It is that little bit of poison added to the bait that kills. Satan bates with truth but ads a damnable false belief that has no power to save. Trinity Doctrin has no power to save it is a teaching not the Gospel.

I like this post and it should be heeded by many who "who stand at the gate "...,keeping people out

[Reinitin]

33 minutes ago, Willa said:

It is true that when the Holy Spirit shows us our need of a Savior and we call out to God for help, knowing that without Him we have no hope, that many of us have very little knowledge of the Gospel or of doctrine.  I didn't.  But that fact remained that untill I received that kind of teaching I had little understanding of the Bible.  Understanding the essentials of the Trinity opened my understanding to much of the Bible, shedding light on many Scriptures.  Likewise, understanding that salvation and is a gift from God, and even faith is a gift from God, freed me from trying to be "good enough" to go to heaven.  I was a mess before receiving some solid teaching.  The last part of the puzzel that opened my understanding was learning to walk after the Spirit, following His inspiriation and leading as supported by Scripture...  This freed me from the "oh wretched man that I am" syndrome of the last of Romans 7.     

The point that I am making is that such teaching is not key to initial salvation, which is by grace alone through faith, but it is key to our spiritual understanding of Scripture and growth as a Christian.  We can't grow in love till we begin to comprehend God's love for us and for the most unlovable people we know, as well.  And we can't really know God intimately apart from Scripture.  

What you are saying is true.  Christ, the Holy Spirit, The written word, salvation, eternal life, cleansing of sin is all a gift from God.