The beast that goes into Perdition

[Serving]

6 hours ago, Thallasa said:

The English language did not exist  when the bible was written or compiled . It is a mongrel language having developed over a long time from many sources . Unlike Latin, French, Basque ,Latin (and possibly Greek) ,there is a continual adding ad hoc to the language .

 

I searched for someone to lay it out WHAT I see for me, who can do a better job .. think on this for a while please ..

(This was a KJV site)

If we have a perfect Bible in English, don't we need one in every other language?

No. And I find it interesting that the same people who accuse me of putting God's word under a "linguistic padlock" are the same people who believe that God's inspired word only exists in "original autographs" that decayed into dust centuries ago. The same people who accuse me of being ethnocentric believe that only people who study Greek and Hebrew can possibly know what God "really said."

The following is from Sam Gipp's The Answer Book.

QUESTION: If there is a perfect Bible in English, doesn't there also have to be a perfect Bible in French, and German, and Japanese, etc.?

ANSWER: No. God has always given His word to one people in one language to do one job--convert the world. The supposition that there must be a perfect translation in every language is erroneous and inconsistent with God's proven practice.

EXPLANATION: This explanation comes in three parts: the Old Testament, the New Testament, the entire Bible.

(1) The Old Testament:

It is an accepted fact that, with the exception of some portions of Ezra and Daniel, the Old Testament was written in Hebrew. It is also accepted that it was divinely given to the Jews.

Thus God initiates His pattern of operation. He gave His words to one people in only one language.

God, apparently unintimidated by modern scholarship, did not feel obligated to supply His words in Egyptian, Chaldean, Syrian, Ethiopian, or any other of the languages in use on the earth at the time the Old Testament was written.

(2) New Testament:

It is also an accepted fact that the New Testament was written in Greek, Koine Greek to be exact. Again, the Lord apparently saw no reason to inspire a perfect original in all of the languages of the world extant at that time.

Only this time, instead of giving His Book to a nation, such as Israel, He simply gave it to the Christians who were told to go out and convert the world (Matthew 28:19). His choice of Greek as the language of the New Testament was obvious in that it was the predominant language of the world at the time.

(3) The Entire Bible:

It is obvious that God now needed to get both His Old Testament and His New Testament welded together in a language that was common to the world. Only English can be considered such a language.

The English language had been developing for many centuries until the late sixteenth century. About that time it finally reached a state of excellence that no language on earth has ever attained. It would seem that God did the rest. He chose this perfect language for the consummation of His perfect Book.

First England and later the United States swept the globe as the most powerful nations on earth, establishing English in all corners of the globe as either a primary or secondary language.

Today nations who do not speak English must still teach English to many of their citizens. Even nations antagonistic to the West such as Russia and Red China must teach English to their business and military personnel.

Thus in choosing English in which to combine His two Testaments, God chose the only language which the world would know. Just as He has shown in His choosing only one language for the Old Testament and only one language for the New Testament, He continued that practice by combining those two testaments in only one language.

But let us not forget the fact that, by choosing the English language, God has given us a mandate to carry out the great commission. He did not give us a perfect Bible to set placidly on the coffee table in our living room to let our guests know that we are "religious." He did not give it to us to press a flower from our first date, or to have a record of our family tree. He gave it to us to read! And to tuck under our arm and share with the lost world the good news of Jesus' payment for sin that is found inside.

Let's get busy!

[gdemoss]

16 hours ago, thereselittleflower said:

yes, it is good it's not a point of contention in scripture.   But the approach to scripture that yields an error here is going to yield errors elsewhere too.

 

Does this honestly make sense to you?

• 4Every man who has *HAIR* on his head while praying or prophesying disgraces his head. 5But every woman who has her head UNHAIRED (absent of hair) while praying or prophesying disgraces her head, for she is one and the same as the woman whose head is shaved. 6For if a woman does not HAIR (put hair on) her head, let her also have her hair cut off; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, let her (put) HAIR her head. 7For a man ought not to have his head HAIRED (with presence of hair), since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. 8For man does not originate from woman, but woman from man; 9for indeed man was not created for the woman’s sake, but woman for the man’s sake. 10Therefore the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels. 11However, in the Lord, neither is woman independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. 12For as the woman originates from the man, so also the manhas his birth through the woman; and all things originate from God. 13Judge for yourselves: is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head UNHAIRED (without hair)? 

 

Since you claim the words "cover" "covered" refer to hair, I have substituted the words in blue for "something" in the first instance and  "covered" and "cover" for the others to demonstrate how, grammatically, your understanding doesn't make sense, in fact, becomes nonsensical.

Thank you for demonstrating how your logic works.  It makes sense why you don't understand where I am coming from.  

[Serving]

To all you translation meddlers of God's written word, who are creating confusion and contradictions by your meddlings, saying NO MAN can understand UNLESS he understands the Greek and the Hebrew etc etc .. which is NON BIBLICAL BTW .. and to those STILL able to think for themselves and see the message and not just the messenger, IF you can still think critically meaning undefiled from modern liberal programming and dumbing down through purposely bad & deteriating educating practices, WHAT does this OVERALL MESSAGE SAY :

If we have a perfect Bible in English, don't we need one in every other language?

No. And I find it interesting that the same people who accuse me of putting God's word under a "linguistic padlock" are the same people who believe that God's inspired word only exists in "original autographs" that decayed into dust centuries ago. The same people who accuse me of being ethnocentric believe that only people who study Greek and Hebrew can possibly know what God "really said."

The following is from Sam Gipp's The Answer Book.

QUESTION: If there is a perfect Bible in English, doesn't there also have to be a perfect Bible in French, and German, and Japanese, etc.?

ANSWER: No. God has always given His word to one people in one language to do one job--convert the world. The supposition that there must be a perfect translation in every language is erroneous and inconsistent with God's proven practice.

EXPLANATION: This explanation comes in three parts: the Old Testament, the New Testament, the entire Bible.

(1) The Old Testament:

It is an accepted fact that, with the exception of some portions of Ezra and Daniel, the Old Testament was written in Hebrew. It is also accepted that it was divinely given to the Jews.

Thus God initiates His pattern of operation. He gave His words to one people in only one language.

God, apparently unintimidated by modern scholarship, did not feel obligated to supply His words in Egyptian, Chaldean, Syrian, Ethiopian, or any other of the languages in use on the earth at the time the Old Testament was written.

(2) New Testament:

It is also an accepted fact that the New Testament was written in Greek, Koine Greek to be exact. Again, the Lord apparently saw no reason to inspire a perfect original in all of the languages of the world extant at that time.

Only this time, instead of giving His Book to a nation, such as Israel, He simply gave it to the Christians who were told to go out and convert the world (Matthew 28:19). His choice of Greek as the language of the New Testament was obvious in that it was the predominant language of the world at the time.

(3) The Entire Bible:

It is obvious that God now needed to get both His Old Testament and His New Testament welded together in a language that was common to the world. Only English can be considered such a language.

The English language had been developing for many centuries until the late sixteenth century. About that time it finally reached a state of excellence that no language on earth has ever attained. It would seem that God did the rest. He chose this perfect language for the consummation of His perfect Book.

First England and later the United States swept the globe as the most powerful nations on earth, establishing English in all corners of the globe as either a primary or secondary language.

Today nations who do not speak English must still teach English to many of their citizens. Even nations antagonistic to the West such as Russia and Red China must teach English to their business and military personnel.

Thus in choosing English in which to combine His two Testaments, God chose the only language which the world would know. Just as He has shown in His choosing only one language for the Old Testament and only one language for the New Testament, He continued that practice by combining those two testaments in only one language.

But let us not forget the fact that, by choosing the English language, God has given us a mandate to carry out the great commission. He did not give us a perfect Bible to set placidly on the coffee table in our living room to let our guests know that we are "religious." He did not give it to us to press a flower from our first date, or to have a record of our family tree. He gave it to us to read! And to tuck under our arm and share with the lost world the good news of Jesus' payment for sin that is found inside.

Let's get busy!

IT says (reading between the lines) that knowing the GREEK & HEBREW is POINTLESS .. you are just going BACKWARDS trying to UNDO what God has done by CONFIRMING His word in a PERFECT (not mongrel) LANGUAGE where all your word games are SEVERLY RESTRICTED  .. in ENGLISH .. since English can be VERY to the POINT and more resilient to the translation games the meddlers play .. THEY HATE THAT FACT immensely ..

STOP changing God's word and show some FAITH in His PROMISE that He would PRESERVE HIS WORD which He ONLY (eventually) released as ONE COMPILED BOOK containing the COMPLETE scriptures of BOTH Old & New Testaments  and did so ONLY IN ENGLISH.

Get over yourselves and stop playing the translation game, God already DID the work, stop trying to CORRECT Him .. just because men say God couldn't do it (preserve His word) you believe them?

Really?

[Serving]

53 minutes ago, gdemoss said:

Thank you for demonstrating how your logic works.  It makes sense why you don't understand where I am coming from.

Is that what Therese was saying?

That when God said that a woman should cover her head when praying (as I discern it by your answers?) that "covering" merely means HAIR????

And what, are ANY others agreeing? God forbid.

Oh boy .. oh boy .. oh boy .. we might be dealing with freemasons here brother .. or Cabbalists (which is Satanism dressed up), or a cult group of Jesuit teachings, all these are part of their bigger brother's doings  .. the ILLUMINATI.

I am being serious too .. I have looked into what's going on in the attack on Christ's word .. ALL these groups are "IN" the churches and "church" groups and ESPECIALLY on Christian forums posing as disciples of Christ for to corrupt and DESTROY God's written word and their followers are what is officially termed as "useless idiots" (not MY descriptive for those ignorant ones who are being used) by the main leaders whose language consists of a word called "Goyim", which is what THEY see US as .. CATTLE to be slaughtered .. let us be alert to their word games and scripture twisting they so shamelessly practice, those using the Satanic Talmud which is OPPOSITE to true Judaism which has been hijacked by the Talmudists who are really CABBALISTS which is SATANIC and against Judaism of which it pretends to be and 99% of Israel thinks they follow God when in fact they follow the TALMUD which is NOT the OT but in OPPOSITION to the OT .. millions of Jews deceived by their so called "rabbis" who are Cabbalistic Satanists in disguise.

If you disagree with THERESE, then I am with you on this, what a shameless display of twisting the scriptures for personal bias.

For a woman to cover her head when praying means just that, put a covering over her long hair .. at least YOU and I are speaking ENGLISH here .. I'm positive many here are better at speaking Greek or Hebrew than they are at English, I mean, it is not even subtle, you cant really call what they are doing as simple mistakes, it is outright deception and word twisting at play here .. undoubtedly ulterior motives are at work.

 

[Serving]

1 hour ago, MorningGlory said:

Why don't you stop speaking to other members here as if you are an apostle or something?  Therese has her opinion; this is not a court of law so she can't 'rest her case'.  It is what it is, get used to it.  Btw, my 'one liners' are far more definitive, you HAD to get all riled, than the run on, run on, overly verbose.

I am not riled, I am tired of double standards.

Why don't you DEFEND the TRUTH instead of attacking me when I DEFEND not only against personal attacks to my integrity but more importantly to the integrity of a simple biblical declaration being abused in word games huh?

WHY?

YOU speak English, tell me, What does this say :

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Does it say, "God thy God", just being poetic prose, which Therese says it means, whilst saying that I AM TWISTING THE SCRIPTURES like I were a bad character of dubious intentions, or is it Jesus explaining WHERE He is going and to tell Mary to give the SAME message to the Apostles so THEY would know WHERE He was going to BEFORE He came to see them?

Please ANSWER.

[thereselittleflower]

2 hours ago, Serving said:

 

I never claimed they weren't so HOW is this "my first mistake"??

Trying the old famous bait & switch tactic are we?

Well who'd have thought?? (rolling eyes)

Well, well .. THANK YOU for the above admission .. that actually HURTS your case .. very badly in fact .. and the solution to this quandary? God solved the problem by releasing His word GLOBALLY in 1611, and for the first time in history HE gave ALL mankind the COMPLETED word (BOTH Testaments) in what is known as the Holy Bible .. NOW His Word was available to ANY person to personally possess the written and COMPLETED word (BOTH Testaments) all laid out and TRANSLATED CORRECTLY by INSPIRATION of the Holy Ghost, into ONE language HE KNEW was to eventually be the UNIVERSAL LANGUAGE of the LAST DAYS .. His CHOSEN authoritive LANGUAGE to put an end to the translating GAME which breeds CONTRADICTIONS .. He CHOSE the English Language .. so all you who play these language games where ANY meaning can be interchanged AT WHIM .. well .. HE has FREED us from those types .. get over it.

SAME reason He had His word temporarily recorded in the Greek with the New Testament, temporarily because Greek was the universal language of it's TIME .. but God FORESAW that ENGLISH was the NEXT GLOBAL LANGUAGE and so HE had His written Word recorded in ENGLISH, and HE did the INSPIRING as to the CORRECT MEANINGS / INTERPRETAIONS of the translated word into HIS INTENDED LANGUAGE HE CHOSE for it to be CORRECTLY TRANSLATED into, so mankind would be FREE from the scholars who love to speak God's words for Him and demand we pay homage to their divine wisdom like good little sheep where all your translation games means ANY MAN can make ANY WORD mean ANYTHING THEY WANT IT TO by using the Hebrew or the Greek as though they were more authoritive than God's chosen language HE CHOSE to CONFIRM every words MEANINGs .. HE freed us from people like you who say, "yea, did God say" .. sound familiar? .. the garden perhaps? .. er .. no thanks, I will stick to the ENGLISH which is the AUTHORITY over the Hebrew & the Greek whether you like it or not. BTW : ONLY 80% of the Hebrew language was SAVED .. that means 20% was RE-INVENTED .. so what do you do about THAT in regards to ACCURACY? (speaking about the ancient Hebrew BOX style of writing)

Then you will never understand properly and will just sow confusion & contradictions .. just like ALL the new translations BESIDES the KJV, not ONE of them AGREE with each other, WHY? Because people like you can read a verse and say, "Oh, I don't LIKE that" .. and go to the Greek and take ONE word which Greek words can have up to SIX MEANINGS EACH and CHANGE the WHOLE MEANING of a verse to suit personal agendas .. that is, people like you can CHANGE the written word at will, and you guys think you are CORRECTING "God's sloppy mistakes" .. how proud and presumptuous.

..."and both shall fall into the ditch".

No, you have wrongly fallen for the deception that started in the garden, "Yea, did God say" .. enter all the contradictory bible translations ..  none of your lot believe God preserved His written word as promised, so you guys can apparently come along and save us from all the confusion your lot started in the first place with all your contradictory bible versions .. thanks for making God an AUTHOR of CONFUSION.

My advice, STOP meddling with the already laid out and confirmed written word and learn English properly if you want to understand what God meant in the Hebrew & the Greek.

Serving, your view of history is quite distorted, and I could simply say the same thing about you. 

You made the issue of English.  I pointed out that the issue is non issue because the scriptures were not written in English and you are hanging everything on what they say in a particular English translation. That doesn't work out too well.

And no, it does not hurt my case at all.

And no. 1611 was NOT the first time in history God gave all mankind the completed word  - the Bible.   I have NO idea where you get your version of history from, and I don't want to sound rude - however,  this is one of the most absurd things I've heard anyone claim here.                            

The first translation of the entire bible was into the vernacular of the world language at the time  - Latin, in the first few centuries of Christianity.    From there it was translated into other languages.  The King James version was written in English and so it was not for the entire world, and it was not released globally, but only to English speaking peoples.  The majority of the world did not speak English I am sorry to say.

And to say that a translation is INSPIRED by the Holy Ghost only demonstrates that either you aren't correctly understanding inspiration or you are falsely attributing to translators, who can only make imperfect translations, what was given ONLY to the writers of the books of the Bible.

Either way, such a statement is very, very, very much in error.  There are no inspired translations.  The translators never ever claimed inspiration.  There are scholarly translations.  Scholarly =/= inspired.  

God did not have His word "temporarily recorded" in Greek and Hebrew.

English is not the authority over Greek and Hebrew.

A big problem here is that it is obvious you do not understand the translation process or the limitations of it.

Instead of this working against what I've said, it actually works against all your claims here because it reinforces the fact that there can be no inspired translations.   

 

In a nut shell, God did NOT rewrite the scriptures in English.  God gave the scriptures through inspiration ONE time.  That's it.    God has not chosen English as "His" "authorative langauge."   There is absolutely not one shred of evidence for such a claim.    

Is it not I who is playing a game with the English language.  

And it is not I who has fallen for the deception of the enemy on this.

 

My advice to you is to stop relying on English translations as superior to the original languages and learn something of the original languages, their idioms, figures of speech, the culture in which they were written in and to so you can better learn what the scriptures actually say.

 

   

2 hours ago, Serving said:

    No one needs be SPECIAL to understand English, I resent your smug implications .. no one is "special" in English especially if it is their NATIVE tongue, like yours .. we can both read something like this : And Christ said, "go and say to my brethren, I go to my God and to your God" and understand what is meant .. BUT therese says, "NO, that doesn't say that, it says, God thy God" .. which is EXACTLY what she did .. so are you telling me you are okay with that "method" she is promoting/abusing being a SPEAKER of English yourself?

Why don't you TRY and see the WHOLE meaning instead of pointless one liners which are totally beside the point when taken out of context.

 

 

 

And I think you need to calm down.

 

 

 

 

[thereselittleflower]

2 hours ago, MorningGlory said:

Must be nice to be the ONE who understands proper English and translation.  Wow.

It goes beyond that.

Serving's claiming that the 1611 English translation REPLACES the original Greek and Hebrew scriptures as DIVINELY inspired, that the Greek and Hebrew scriptures were only temporary. Basically that God rewrote scripture in English.

I don't know who teaches this stuff, but it's quite bizarre to me that anyone would claim such a thing.

 

[thereselittleflower]

1 hour ago, Serving said:

I searched for someone to lay it out WHAT I see for me, who can do a better job .. think on this for a while please ..

(This was a KJV site)

If we have a perfect Bible in English, don't we need one in every other language?

 

 

 

There is NO perfect English translation.

 

 

[Serving]

2 minutes ago, thereselittleflower said:

Serving, your view of history is quite distorted, and I could simply say the same thing about you.

You made the issue of English.  I pointed out that the issue is non issue because the scriptures were not written in English and you are hanging everything on what they say in a particular English translation. That doesn't work out too well.

And no, it does not hurt my case at all.

And no. 1611 was NOT the first time in history God gave all mankind the completed word  - the Bible.   I have NO idea where you get your version of history from, and I don't want to sound rude - however,  this is one of the most absurd things I've heard anyone claim here.                          

The first translation of the entire bible was into the vernacular of the world language at the time  - Latin, in the first few centuries of Christianity.    From there it was translated into other languages.  The King James version was written in English and so it was not for the entire world, and it was not released globally, but only to English speaking peoples.  The majority of the world did not speak English I am sorry to say.

And to say that a translation is INSPIRED by the Holy Ghost only demonstrates that either you aren't correctly understanding inspiration or you are falsely attributing to translators, who can only make imperfect translations, what was given ONLY to the writers of the books of the Bible.

Either way, such a statement is very, very, very much in error.  There are no inspired translations.  The translators never ever claimed inspiration.  There are scholarly translations.  Scholarly =/= inspired.  

God did not have His word "temporarily recorded" in Greek and Hebrew.

English is not the authority over Greek and Hebrew.

A big problem here is that it is obvious you do not understand the translation process or the limitations of it.

Instead of this working against what I've said, it actually works against all your claims here because it reinforces the fact that there can be no inspired translations.  

 

In a nut shell, God did NOT rewrite the scriptures in English.  God gave the scriptures through inspiration ONE time.  That's it.    God has not chosen English as "His" "authorative langauge."   There is absolutely not one shred of evidence for such a claim.  

Is it not I who is playing a game with the English language.

And it is not I who has fallen for the deception of the enemy on this.

 

My advice to you is to stop relying on English translations as superior to the original languages and learn something of the original languages, their idioms, figures of speech, the culture in which they were written in and to so you can better learn what the scriptures actually say.

 

 

 

 

The evidence is in a book called the King James Bible which was released in ENGLISH and for the FIRST TIME in HISTORY released GLOBALLY taking away and EXPOSING how much the Catholic church was TWISTING God's word to SUIT THEMSELVES .. heck, they even used to KILL any man who had any MSS who were NOT Catholic priests .. what, would you like them to bring that back would you? Where ONLY people who understand Greek & Hebrew have any understanding?

But 99% of TYOUR types do NOT even understand the Greek or Hebrew ANYWAYS .. you do pathetic little word searches, you come up with SIX or more meanings to CHOOSE from, and pick the one that YOU LIKE and say, "Yea, God saith".

I am not deceived so easily as others seem to be.

 

[thereselittleflower]

 

1 hour ago, Serving said:

Is that what Therese was saying?

That when God said that a woman should cover her head when praying (as I discern it by your answers?) that "covering" merely means HAIR????

And what, are ANY others agreeing? God forbid.

Oh boy .. oh boy .. oh boy .. we might be dealing with freemasons here brother .. or Cabbalists (which is Satanism dressed up), or a cult group of Jesuit teachings, all these are part of their bigger brother's doings  .. the ILLUMINATI.

I am being serious too .. I have looked into what's going on in the attack on Christ's word .. ALL these groups are "IN" the churches and "church" groups and ESPECIALLY on Christian forums posing as disciples of Christ for to corrupt and DESTROY God's written word and their followers are what is officially termed as "useless idiots" (not MY descriptive for those ignorant ones who are being used) by the main leaders whose language consists of a word called "Goyim", which is what THEY see US as .. CATTLE to be slaughtered .. let us be alert to their word games and scripture twisting they so shamelessly practice, those using the Satanic Talmud which is OPPOSITE to true Judaism which has been hijacked by the Talmudists who are really CABBALISTS which is SATANIC and against Judaism of which it pretends to be and 99% of Israel thinks they follow God when in fact they follow the TALMUD which is NOT the OT but in OPPOSITION to the OT .. millions of Jews deceived by their so called "rabbis" who are Cabbalistic Satanists in disguise.

If you disagree with THERESE, then I am with you on this, what a shameless display of twisting the scriptures for personal bias.

For a woman to cover her head when praying means just that, put a covering over her long hair .. at least YOU and I are speaking ENGLISH here .. I'm positive many here are better at speaking Greek or Hebrew than they are at English, I mean, it is not even subtle, you cant really call what they are doing as simple mistakes, it is outright deception and word twisting at play here .. undoubtedly ulterior motives are at work.

 

 

ummm   Serving  -  I hate to see you like this.     I strongly recommend you step away from the computer and take a break.   

By the way, I'm not the one who claimed the covering Paul spoke of was a woman's hair.