simplejeff Posted February 5, 2016 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.38 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 5, 2016 what about : 2 CORINTHIANS 5:10 KJ21 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to what he hath done, whether it be good or bad. ASV For we must all be made manifest before the judgment-seat of Christ; that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he hath done, whether it be good or bad. AMP For we [believers will be called to account and] must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be repaid for what has been done in the body, whether good or bad [that is, each will be held responsible for his actions, purposes, goals, motives—the use or misuse of his time, opportunities and abilities]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2thelight Posted February 5, 2016 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 2 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,139 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 796 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/20/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 5, 2016 10 hours ago, rollinTHUNDER said: Yes, I agree, His intervention will be continuous. However, it will take several days to carry out and fulfill all of the endtime prophecies, and this is where I believe God's biblical fall feasts come into play as well. It's not like He will gather His elect and return immediately and unleash His wrath on the world. Those elect who are ready when He appears will be rewarded and attend the wedding supper. But this is only the beginning of the judgment of the house of God (1 Pet. 4:17-18). There will be other servants of His that will not be ready and will receive a little punishment, and still others that will receive a severe punishment, before He returns to judge the nations. Note verses 46, 47 & 48 in the passage below. Luke 12:35-48 - “Be dressed ready for service and keep your lamps burning, 36 like servants waiting for their master to return from a wedding banquet, so that when he comes and knocks they can immediately open the door for him. 37 It will be good for those servants whose master finds them watching when he comes. Truly I tell you, he will dress himself to serve, will have them recline at the table and will come and wait on them. 38 It will be good for those servants whose master finds them ready, even if he comes in the middle of the night or toward daybreak. 39 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would not have let his house be broken into. 40 You also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.” 41 Peter asked, “Lord, are you telling this parable to us, or to everyone?” 42 The Lord answered, “Who then is the faithful and wise manager, whom the master puts in charge of his servants to give them their food allowance at the proper time? 43 It will be good for that servant whom the master finds doing so when he returns. 44 Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 45 But suppose the servant says to himself, ‘My master is taking a long time in coming,’ and he then begins to beat the other servants, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk. 46 The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers. 47 “The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. 48 But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked. So before He returns to judge the nations, He first needs to settle the score with His servants who weren't ready when He appeared. Who are they and what becomes of them? We know that Paul said some will be saved, yet only as one escaping thru the flames (1 Cor. 3:15), as all of their works (deeds) will be burned up. If these are those who receive a severe punishment, then who are those who will be beaten with few blows or a less severe punishment, and what becomes of them? Just curious,do you understand who the elect are.... I say this because of your sentence"those elect who are ready" The Elect have always been ready,they were ordained before the foundation of the world.... In other words being saved does not mean elected.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamL Posted February 5, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 5,117 Content Per Day: 1.48 Reputation: 2,555 Days Won: 4 Joined: 11/06/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/01/1950 Share Posted February 5, 2016 10 hours ago, rollinTHUNDER said: Rev. 19:9 & 17 are not describing the wedding supper. By adding the two together you have effectively butchered this chapter. Remember, the elect who are ready will go to the wedding supper, which is not shown here, but what about the servants who were not ready and received a little punishment? You have left them out completely. Rev. 19 is not the supper, it's the wedding, when the bride has finally made herself ready, which is only after the last of the martyrs has been killed. These are all the saints that will be returning with Christ on white horses (raptured elect + martyrs). If you want to add scriptures, make sure you're adding the correct scriptures. It should look like this: Revelation 19:9 - Then the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!” And he added, “These are the true words of God.” The verse you quote denies everything you claim. It IS the wedding supper, just like it says. In traditional ancient Hebrew weddings, the supper came only after the groom took the bride into the bridal chamber to consummate the marriage. The consummation had to come first, so that the bride could be proved to be a virgin. See Deut. 22:13-17. That consummation takes place at the Coming of Christ for his Bride. Only after the groom signaled the consummation could the wedding feast begin. By the time of Rev. 19, the Bride is already in heaven, and is already called "His wife." Rev. 19:7 ...for the marriage of the Lamb came [Greek aorist past tense], and his wife made [aorist past tense] herself ready. ... "There were three states of a marriage in the Bible: Stage 1: signing the "ketubbah" contract (Creating the marriage bond)... Stage 2: The "chuppah": sexual consummation. ... Stage 3: The wedding feast i. After consummation, the entire wedding party walks to the house of the groom in a procession for a wedding feast. ii. At the conclusion of the wedding feast, the couple has completed the ancient ritual of marriage. http://www.bible.ca/marriage/ancient-jewish-three-stage-weddings-and-marriage-customs-ceremony-in-the-bible.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mevosper Posted February 5, 2016 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 317 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 133 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/24/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted February 5, 2016 9 hours ago, simplejeff said: what about : 2 CORINTHIANS 5:10 KJ21 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to what he hath done, whether it be good or bad. ASV For we must all be made manifest before the judgment-seat of Christ; that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he hath done, whether it be good or bad. AMP For we [believers will be called to account and] must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be repaid for what has been done in the body, whether good or bad [that is, each will be held responsible for his actions, purposes, goals, motives—the use or misuse of his time, opportunities and abilities]. Recall that all judgment in heaven and on earth has been given to Christ: Jhn 5:22, 27 KJV - For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: ... And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. Since Christ has all judgment authority in heaven and on earth, we stand before the judgment seat of Christ daily, even right now. Our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit, where before Christ, the temple was a physical one. God met with Moses and the people of Israel from the mercy seat (Ex 25:22). Now that our hearts are where God's laws are written (2 Cor 3:3), his throne/judgment seat is within us. Once one's eyes are opened to this, they can then "follow the trail" and determine exactly who the antichrist is (the one that sits himself on the throne of God proclaiming to be God). But that is for a different thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SINNERSAVED Posted February 5, 2016 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 6 Topic Count: 150 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,195 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 2,409 Days Won: 14 Joined: 07/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 5, 2016 1 hour ago, mevosper said: Recall that all judgment in heaven and on earth has been given to Christ: Jhn 5:22, 27 KJV - For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: ... And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. Since Christ has all judgment authority in heaven and on earth, we stand before the judgment seat of Christ daily, even right now. Our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit, where before Christ, the temple was a physical one. God met with Moses and the people of Israel from the mercy seat (Ex 25:22). Now that our hearts are where God's laws are written (2 Cor 3:3), his throne/judgment seat is within us. Once one's eyes are opened to this, they can then "follow the trail" and determine exactly who the antichrist is (the one that sits himself on the throne of God proclaiming to be God). But that is for a different thread. go ahead and start the new thread, that be fine with me, its getting very interesting and clear, more that it is talked about and other members converse, blessings Mevosper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollinTHUNDER Posted February 5, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 83 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,985 Content Per Day: 0.37 Reputation: 433 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/23/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted February 5, 2016 4 hours ago, WilliamL said: The verse you quote denies everything you claim. It IS the wedding supper, just like it says. In traditional ancient Hebrew weddings, the supper came only after the groom took the bride into the bridal chamber to consummate the marriage. The consummation had to come first, so that the bride could be proved to be a virgin. See Deut. 22:13-17. That consummation takes place at the Coming of Christ for his Bride. Only after the groom signaled the consummation could the wedding feast begin. By the time of Rev. 19, the Bride is already in heaven, and is already called "His wife." Rev. 19:7 ...for the marriage of the Lamb came [Greek aorist past tense], and his wife made [aorist past tense] herself ready. ... "There were three states of a marriage in the Bible: Stage 1: signing the "ketubbah" contract (Creating the marriage bond)... Stage 2: The "chuppah": sexual consummation. ... Stage 3: The wedding feast i. After consummation, the entire wedding party walks to the house of the groom in a procession for a wedding feast. ii. At the conclusion of the wedding feast, the couple has completed the ancient ritual of marriage. http://www.bible.ca/marriage/ancient-jewish-three-stage-weddings-and-marriage-customs-ceremony-in-the-bible.htm You can keep the rituals, customs, traditions and exclude the martyrs, but I'll stick with scripture. Rev. 19 includes the martyrs, and the supper is already passed. I see no evidence of anyone reclining at a table and/or being served here. John was told to write, Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb, just as he was also told to write, Blessed are those who die in the Lord from now on (Rev. 14:13). It is clear that it's now time to avenge the blood of the martyrs, who were killed for refusing the mark of the beast. Revelation 19:After this I heard what sounded like the roar of a great multitude in heaven shouting: “Hallelujah!Salvation and glory and power belong to our God,2 for true and just are his judgments.He has condemned the great prostitute who corrupted the earth by her adulteries.He has avenged on her the blood of his servants.” 3 And again they shouted: “Hallelujah!The smoke from her goes up for ever and ever.” 4 The twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God, who was seated on the throne. And they cried: “Amen, Hallelujah!” 5 Then a voice came from the throne, saying: “Praise our God, all you his servants,you who fear him, both great and small!” 6 Then I heard what sounded like a great multitude, like the roar of rushing waters and like loud peals of thunder, shouting: “Hallelujah! For our Lord God Almighty reigns.7 Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory!For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready.8 Fine linen, bright and clean, was given her to wear.” (Fine linen stands for the righteous acts of God’s holy people.) 9 Then the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!” And he added, “These are the true words of God.” 10 At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “Don’t do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers and sisters who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For it is the Spirit of prophecy who bears testimony to Jesus.” The Heavenly Warrior Defeats the Beast 11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war. 12 His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. 13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.”[a] He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: king of kings and lord of lords. 17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.” 19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21 The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh. The only feast in view here is the birds eating the flesh of the armies and horses of the beast. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamL Posted February 5, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 5,117 Content Per Day: 1.48 Reputation: 2,555 Days Won: 4 Joined: 11/06/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/01/1950 Share Posted February 5, 2016 1 hour ago, rollinTHUNDER said: John was told to write, Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb... Revelation 19: ... 9 Then the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!” ...The only feast in view here is the birds eating the flesh of the armies and horses of the beast. The wedding supper of the Lamb is in clear view here, but since it does not fit into your eschatology, you refuse to see it. There is only one supper being spoken of in Rev. 19, not two. And that supper takes place when the Lord descends to earth. After the marital consummation has been already completed. The NIV translation you use has too much paraphrase and presumption in it, which confuses the issue. It takes too many liberties with the Greek verbs (which is not uncommon for translations of this chapter). The aorist verbs in ch. 19 are generally not translated by the NIV in the past tense like they are elsewhere in the NT, and like they should be translated in this chapter also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollinTHUNDER Posted February 5, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 83 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,985 Content Per Day: 0.37 Reputation: 433 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/23/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted February 5, 2016 33 minutes ago, WilliamL said: The wedding supper of the Lamb is in clear view here, but since it does not fit into your eschatology, you refuse to see it. There is only one supper being spoken of in Rev. 19, not two. And that supper takes place when the Lord descends to earth. After the marital consummation has been already completed. The NIV translation you use has too much paraphrase and presumption in it, which confuses the issue. It takes too many liberties with the Greek verbs (which is not uncommon for translations of this chapter). The aorist verbs in ch. 19 are generally not translated by the NIV in the past tense like they are elsewhere in the NT, and like they should be translated in this chapter also. Lol - Use whatever version you like, but the supper for the birds in Rev. 19:17 in no way even remotely resembles the wedding supper, or the passages I'll quote below. And I'll say it only once more, only those who are ready when He comes will attend this supper. Matthew 25:10 - But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut. Matthew 26:26-29 - While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is my body.” 27 Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. 28 This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. 29 I tell you, I will not drink from this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.” Luke 12:37-40 - Blessed are those servants whom the master will find watching when he comes. Truly I say to you, he will dress himself and have them sit down to dine, and he will come and serve them. 38 If he comes in the second watch, or comes in the third watch, and finds them so, blessed are those servants. 39 But know this: If the owner of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would have watched and not have allowed his house to be broken into. 40 Therefore be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect. Not even close, William. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted February 6, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 6, 2016 On February 3, 2016 at 0:39 PM, tigger398 said: So there are a a lot of people on boards who don't believe in rapture. Well I'm opened minded. If rapture don't exist then we have a problem with these verses. 1Thess 4:17 - Matt 24:41 - Luke 17:34 35 36 I'm perplexed when I hear some people don't believe in a rapture. Just because the word is used just once doesn't mean it doesn't exist. (Harpazzo in the Greek I believe) the 1 thess and 1 cor 15 passages seem pretty clear to me, but Matt 24/25 is also pretty clear- ones standing in the field while the other is TAKEN! And so forth. Personally, I don't care if someone doesn't believe, no skin off my back, but I do believe it is possible they may disqualify them self for some benefits. Luke 21:36, 5 foolish virgins not ready, rewards for watching.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted February 6, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.69 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 6, 2016 5 minutes ago, Spock said: I'm perplexed when I hear some people don't believe in a rapture. Just because the word is used just once doesn't mean it doesn't exist. (Harpazzo in the Greek I believe) the 1 thess and 1 cor 15 passages seem pretty clear to me, but Matt 24/25 is also pretty clear- ones standing in the field while the other is TAKEN! And so forth. Personally, I don't care if someone doesn't believe, no skin off my back, but I do believe it is possible they may disqualify them self for some benefits. Luke 21:36, 5 foolish virgins not ready, rewards for watching.... Harpazo doesn't mean rapture. The English word "rapture" doesn't mean "caught up" "snatched away" "taken by force" . ἁρπάζω harpázō, means: to seize, carry off by force to seize on, claim for one's self eagerly to snatch out or away Rapture means: rap·ture ˈrapCHər/ noun 1. a feeling of intense pleasure or joy. Two very different words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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