fulfilled feasts

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Shar said:

Mt.23:2  From the Greek Interlinear ..."The scribes and the Pharisees sat down on Moses' seat.  Then all things, whatever they tell you to keep, keep and do.  But not according to their works, for they say and do not do."     In other words, truly keep them.  Don't be like some who are hypocrites and say to keep them, but do not.

The Scribes and Pharisees were the keepers of the law, both written and oral.  They made sure it was protected and accurately transcribed.  That was another distinction of the Pharisees from the other sects of Judaism, besides believing in the physical return of the Messiah.

I agree someone should start another thread if we wish to continue this discussion.  There is plenty to say and discuss that can be quite interesting.  This forum is about fulfilled feasts and I don't want to take from that discussion. 

Shar, the decisions which came from the seat of Moses were not sectarian. The verse is speaking the exact reverse of what you have said. When Christ spoke of the seat of Moses He spoke of them as Judges in the high court (supreme court) where Decisions were made under the authority of the HIGHPRIEST (Sadducees) Therefore any decision made from that chair was non sectarian. That was the hypocrisy of the sect. That is why Jesus said to do what they say.....as enforcing law as JUDGES in the Sanhedrin. But as a sect they did not were independent of that court in their teachings. Their teachings went beyond their authority as Judges under the law. An example would be their teachings on the prophets and the resurrection and angels. The judges by law were given no authority to make law, or to adjudicate law concerning the next world and the next life.

They were going beyond their lawful jurisdiction as a sect. That there were two sects ruling on matters of law in Christs day, each sects application of law was really a "DISPUTABLE MATTER". Since the very nature of the court being sectarian could not agree on certain things.

.Here is true oral law established by Moses. There was no law made unless the high priest agreed to a sentence

De 21:5  And the priests the sons of Levi shall come near; for them the LORD thy God hath chosen to minister unto him, and to bless in the name of the LORD; and by their word shall every controversy and every stroke be tried:
 

Deut 17:8 If there arise a matter too hard for thee in judgment, between blood and blood, between plea and plea, and between stroke and stroke, being matters of controversy within thy gates: then shalt thou arise, and get thee up into the place which the LORD thy God shall choose;
9  And thou shalt come unto the priests the Levites, and unto the judge that shall be in those days, and enquire; and they shall shew thee the sentence of judgment:
10  And thou shalt do according to the sentence, which they of that place which the LORD shall choose shall shew thee; and thou shalt observe to do according to all that they inform thee:
11  According to the sentence of the law which they shall teach thee, and according to the judgment which they shall tell thee, thou shalt do: thou shalt not decline from the sentence which they shall shew thee, to the right hand, nor to the left.
12  And the man that will do presumptuously, and will not hearken unto the priest that standeth to minister there before the LORD thy God, or unto the judge, even that man shall die: and thou shalt put away the evil from Israel.
13  And all the people shall hear, and fear, and do no more presumptuously.
 

 

Edited February 9, 2016 by Joline

[Qnts2]

26 minutes ago, Joline said:

17 minutes ago, Joline said:

Again, that is not law, so it is irrelevant to scripture. That is what Rabbinic Judaism made it post temple. They usurped the authority of the priesthood, transferred things of the temple to synagogue. Even to the point of some sects today calling the synagogue the temple. In Christs day they were places of study and learning.

 

 

In Judaism today, it is not called sects. It is called branches of Judaism. The only group which refers to the place for 'services' as Temple is Reform Judaism.

The post destruction of the Temple time period is an entirely different issue. But, the main function in the Temple was sacrifices, and there are no sacrifices in synagogues. In Synagogues, are prayers, reading from the scriptures, and a short teaching on the scriptures. There is also different classes for youth and adults. Weddings, and Bar Mitzvahs take place in the synagogue. There is nothing uniquely taken from the Temple.

Judaism is different then Christianity, and the services are different also. First of all, some Christian churches teach that it is a sin to fail to attend services which are considered gathering. In Judaism, it is not a sin to miss services or not attend services. It is considered a good deed to attend services. In Orthodox synagogues/shuls, the 'sanctuary' is open long hours, and people will come at varying times. The standard prayers can and are said independently. Enter into a shul, and you will find men all praying, and at differing places of the prayer as they started at a different time. When the prayers are done, men leave the 'sanctuary' and go out into other areas to chat/visit with each other. At a certain time, the Cantor will lead those who want a leader to say the prayers, and if it is a day for the Torah reading, most people will return for the Torah reading.  Because the prayers can be done individually, many will do the prayers at home. 

[Guest]

On ‎2‎/‎7‎/‎2016 at 8:08 PM, Shar said:

I don't get the point of all your scripture quotes.  I never quote anything Rabbinic.  My understanding of scripture comes right out of the Word of God.  No one doubts the final and complete atoning sacrifice of Christ for ALL who believe.  Your position stems more out of not fully understanding the purpose and meaning of the Feasts of God, which He calls His appointed times.  That very significant events around  His plans and purposes center around His Appointed Times.  The Jews did not make up these Feasts.  God appointed and mandated them.  I would seek my best to get to know them.

If you really want to understand Messianic Judaism and why they place a significance on these Feasts, I recommend the same book to you that I recommended to LittleFlower; "The Feasts of the Lord", by Kevin Howard and Marvin Rosenthal.  It will open up a clear understanding of God's Feasts and their purposes.

 

If I want to understand Messianic Judaism? I was Messianic for a good 13 years.

[Reinitin]

Yes, I agree with everything you said But I do see something on top of that. the Lord is coming back to finish. like a thief in the night (part of a fall feast), on a day that no man knows the day or the hour (part of a fall feast) we are to have our robes ready and not go back into the house when we hear the trumpet (part of the fall feast) that just a few of his words about his return. The fall feasts are in everything he and the disciples and paul mentioned about his return.

[Reinitin]

1 hour ago, Joline said:

I believe he has finished all the law with regards to sin. Because he never dies he remains a priest continually, therefore any sin we commit he is faithful to forgive in repentance. In short he does not need to do anything more with regards to sin. The law of Moses was added because of sin. It was a distinct covenant. I also believe the law, is also the entire 5 books of Moses. I agree with you on Gods righteousness not our own. As it is all about God being faithful to keep his promises to Abraham. When he completes the covenant promises made to ABRAHAM, we will enter the kingdom of the next world and the next life. We all have been born again as part and parcel of his promises made in Genesis 17 to be made a father of many nations. We all have been born of promise in Christ Jesus. As for law, there is the law of faith, which the book of Hebrews speaks. We walk in the steps of faith as our father Abraham. We are foreigners and strangers in this world, and in this life. Our citizenship is in the heavenly kingdom promised to Abraham. The things I speak of are all the law, not just the law of Moses. Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were not party to that covenant.

Yes, I agree with everything you said But I do see something on top of that. the Lord is coming back to finish. like a thief in the night (part of a fall feast), on a day that no man knows the day or the hour (part of a fall feast) we are to have our robes ready and not go back into the house when we hear the trumpet (part of the fall feast) that just a few of his words about his return. The fall feasts are in everything he and the disciples and paul mentioned about his return.

[Qnts2]

Just now, Joline said:

If I want to understand Messianic Judaism? I was Messianic for a good 13 years.

Ok, describe Messianic Judaism.

And as an added note for those unaware: Messianic Jewish synagogues vary widely. Messianic Judaism is not a denomination but is considered a movement. There are two main organizations of Messianic Jews. In the U.S., the Messianic Jewish Alliance of America and the Union of Messianic Judaism Congregations. There is no set way to conduct a service in Messianic Judaism and the approaches are very different. 

[Guest]

38 minutes ago, thereselittleflower said:

At least Got Questions got it right that ammillennialism does not deny the millennium, but rather sees the number 1000 as symbolic of a great expanse of time, and that we are in the millennium now.

The interesting thing is, we never see the number 1000 used literally in all the bible.  Yet somehow, in the most symbolic book of the bible, it is supposed to mean a literal 1000 years.

I'm sorry, I don't see the logic in such a position.

 

 

I agree with the Catholic notion on this one.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Qnts2 said:

Ok, describe Messianic Judaism.

And as an added note for those unaware: Messianic Jewish synagogues vary widely. Messianic Judaism is not a denomination but is considered a movement. There are two main organizations of Messianic Jews. In the U.S., the Messianic Jewish Alliance of America and the Union of Messianic Judaism Congregations. There is no set way to conduct a service in Messianic Judaism and the approaches are very different. 

Well all the changes that occurred there are many different kinds. But as far as I can tell the very basic idea to them all is Pharisaic notions concerning the role of Israel in fulfilling the Abrahamic promises. God has already done that with the Apostles. It is finished.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Reinitin said:

Yes, I agree with everything you said But I do see something on top of that. the Lord is coming back to finish. like a thief in the night (part of a fall feast), on a day that no man knows the day or the hour (part of a fall feast) we are to have our robes ready and not go back into the house when we hear the trumpet (part of the fall feast) that just a few of his words about his return. The fall feasts are in everything he and the disciples and paul mentioned about his return.

Well Of course we already know I believe the priesthood of Levi was a shadow of him and his work. He already accomplished the law. He waits for all whomsoever shall receive, then the kingdom shall come. He left nothing undone.

[Reinitin]

Don't kick me to hard. But, I do believe Satan has done a little twisting through end time doctrines of eschatology to hide the truth about His second coming connecting to the fall feasts. People will have to lay aside some fleshly comforts and cultural fun to acknowledge the fall feasts connections to His second coming.