A different way to look at Revelation

[JohnD]

Revelation 12 (AV)

• And there appeared a great wonder in heaven;
• a woman clothed with the sun,
• and the moon under her feet,
• and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
•  
• And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
•  
• And there appeared another wonder in heaven;
• and behold a great red dragon,
• having seven heads and ten horns,
• and seven crowns upon his heads.
•  
• And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven,
• and did cast them to the earth:
• and the dragon stood before the woman
• which was ready to be delivered,
• for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
•  
• And she brought forth a man child,
• who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron:
• and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
•  
• And the woman fled into the wilderness,
• where she hath a place prepared of God,
• that they should feed her there
• a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
•  
• And there was war in heaven:
• Michael and his angels fought against the dragon;
• and the dragon fought and his angels,
• And prevailed not;
• neither was their place found any more in heaven.
•  
• And the great dragon was cast out,
• that old serpent,
• called the Devil,
• and Satan,
• which deceiveth the whole world:
• he was cast out into the earth,
• and his angels were cast out with him.
•  
• And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven,
• Now is come salvation,
• and strength,
• and the kingdom of our God,
• and the power of his Christ:
• for the accuser of our brethren is cast down,
• which accused them before our God day and night.
•  
• And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb,
• and by the word of their testimony;
• and they loved not their lives unto the death.
•  
• Therefore rejoice,
• ye heavens,
• and ye that dwell in them.
• Woe to the inhabiters of the earth
• and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you,
• having great wrath,
• because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
•  
• And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth,
• he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
•  
• And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle,
• that she might fly into the wilderness,
• into her place,
• where she is nourished
• for a time, and times, and half a time,
• from the face of the serpent.
•  
• And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman,
• that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
•  
• And the earth helped the woman,
• and the earth opened her mouth,
• and swallowed up the flood
• which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
•  
• And the dragon was wroth with the woman,
• and went to make war with the remnant of her seed,
• which keep the commandments of God,
• and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

[JohnD]

Revelation 13 (AV)

• And I stood upon the sand of the sea,
• and saw a beast rise up out of the sea,
• having seven heads and ten horns,
• and upon his horns ten crowns,
• and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
•  
• And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard,
• and his feet were as the feet of a bear,
• and his mouth as the mouth of a lion:
• and the dragon gave him his power,
• and his seat, and great authority.
•  
• And I saw one of his heads
• as it were wounded to death;
• and his deadly wound was healed:
• and all the world wondered after the beast.
•  
• And they worshipped the dragon
• which gave power unto the beast:
• and they worshipped the beast,
• saying, Who is like unto the beast?
• who is able to make war with him? 
•  
• And there was given unto him a mouth
• speaking great things and blasphemies;
• and power was given unto him
• to continue forty and two months. 
•  
• And he opened his mouth
• in blasphemy against God,
• to blaspheme his name,
• and his tabernacle,
• and them that dwell in heaven. 
•  
• And it was given unto him
• to make war with the saints,
• and to overcome them:
• and power was given him
• over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 
•  
• And all that dwell upon the earth
• shall worship him,
• whose names are not written
• in the book of life of the Lamb
• slain from the foundation of the world. 
•  
• If any man have an ear, let him hear. 
•  
• He that leadeth into captivity
• shall go into captivity:
• he that killeth with the sword
• must be killed with the sword.
• Here is the patience and the faith of the saints. 
•  
• And I beheld another beast
• coming up out of the earth;
• and he had two horns like a lamb,
• and he spake as a dragon. 
•  
• And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him,
• and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein
• to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
•  
• And he doeth great wonders,
• so that he maketh fire come down from heaven
• on the earth in the sight of men, 
•  
• And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth
• by the means of those miracles
• which he had power to do in the sight of the beast;
• saying to them that dwell on the earth,
• that they should make an image to the beast,
• which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
•  
• And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast,
• that the image of the beast should both speak,
• and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast
• should be killed. 
•  
• And he causeth all,
• both small and great,
• rich and poor,
• free and bond,
• to receive a mark
• in their right hand,
• or in their foreheads:
•  
• And that no man
• might buy or sell,
• save he that had the mark,
• or the name of the beast,
• or the number of his name. 
• Here is wisdom.
• Let him that hath understanding
• count the number of the beast:
• for it is the number of a man;
• and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

[JohnD]

• And there appeared another wonder in heaven;
• and behold a great red dragon,
• having seven heads and ten horns,
• and seven crowns upon his heads.

• And [ I / he † ] stood upon the sand of the sea,
• and saw a beast rise up out of the sea,
• having seven heads and ten horns,
• and upon his horns ten crowns,
• and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

† the Greek simply says "standing on the sand by the sea" which some English translators interpret to be the dragon (see NAS / NIV)
 

Could this be referring to the same character (the dragon) in two dispositions (two places)?

• heaven
• earth

In the state of...

• spirit only
• spirit occupied / possessed human

And the different description is either a more specific description of individual parts of the whole or perhaps that of the body / influenced peoples here on earth... while in heaven just the description of the dragon covered all bases?

And the number of crowns in heaven versus the number of crowns on earth are indicative of progression of influence / power control culminating with the larger number when he arrives here on on earth...

[JohnD]

IF...

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 reveals who the antichrist is...

2 Thessalonians 2:3–4 (AV)

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

John 17:12 (AV)

12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

And that being:

Luke 22:3 (AV)

3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.

John 13:26–27 (AV)

26 Jesus answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped it. And when he had dipped the sop, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon.

27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.

THEN...

The deadly wound to one of the heads of the beast (Revelation 13:3) would be Judas Iscariot taking his own life (Matthew 27:5).

Revelation 20:1–6 (AV)

1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

And the healing of that head wound...

Revelation 20:7–8 (AV)

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

 

 

 

[JohnD]

The mentions of the three beasts is actually one beast (the dragon) in spirit, then in possession of Judas, then a restored to life Judas in the last days

• opposer of God
• opposer of Christ
• counterfeit Christ

Thus the account would seem to indicate three separate beasts but they are one and the same. The dragon gives him(self) his (own) power or he derives his power from his spirit side... the second beast teaches to worship the dragon the third beast teaches to worship the second beast...

John 5:43 (AV)

43 I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

 

[simplejeff]

Perhaps.  ((j.das)).  Perhaps not. No worries. Maybe like Yochanan the Immerser was "in the spirit"((same/ like/ equivalent)) of Elijah but not Elijah himself.

opposed to God; opposed to Christ; counterfeit Christ; has been around deceiving the whole world already for centuries.

so it may be something more than that.

6 minutes ago, JohnD said:

The mentions of the three beasts is actually one beast (the dragon) in spirit, then in possession of Judas, then a restored to life Judas in the last days

• opposer of God
• opposer of Christ
• counterfeit Christ

 

[JohnD]

One thing that is consistent with the enemy is that he does his own dirty work when it comes to critical points in the war between God and him.

He was in Eden to tempt Eve... not a subordinate.

He was in the wilderness tempting Jesus... not a subordinate.

He entered Judas Iscariot to insure Jesus was crucified (which apparently he interpreted as his defeat)... not a subordinate.

He is the dragon, he is in the second beast, he is in the third beast.

[JohnD]

1 minute ago, simplejeff said:

Perhaps.  ((j.das)).  Perhaps not. No worries. Maybe like Yochanan the Immerser was "in the spirit"((same/ like/ equivalent)) of Elijah but not Elijah himself.

opposed to God; opposed to Christ; counterfeit Christ; has been around deceiving the whole world already for centuries.

so it may be something more than that.

 

Portions of Revelation refer to past, (then) present, and future events. NOW is come salvation (Revelation 12:10). Revelation was seen in vision and written down decades AFTER the cross of Christ. 

[mevosper]

Ezekiel 29:3 describes Pharaoh as "the great dragon that lieth in the midst of his rivers". 

I'm sure Pharaoh thought himself God a few times. We know Nebu K Nezzar thought that at least once. Belshazzar. One of the Herods (if not all). They all thought they were the essence of heaven, until God casts them out (destroys their ideas) for whatever reason.

 

[JohnD]

Never said the dragon did not influence others in the past.