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[Guest]

I think that we are venturing into a different territory in regards to the Rapture.

[Vendtre]

1 hour ago, Rick_Parker said:

That is uncalled for!

But it was accurate. She dismissed the other views with a wave of her hand as if they do not exist.  That is not the case, all three views have their supporters and their biblical support.  To pretend they do not exist does nobody any good.  This is how she seems to address politics as well.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Vendtre said:

Yes it does.  While you do not agree with all three views on the end times you are open minded to know they are there and seem to understand they all have their supporters and have their biblical support. 

After I had been a Christian for a few years I did a study of Revalations, which left me rather confused.  So I set out and a deep dive into each of the three major views.  All three make an excellent case.  In the end I decided they were none 100% right or wrong and that in the end we really cannot know, that is the very nature of prophesy.  God could have put it in much clearer language than he did, I believe that was by design.  

I think all of us know that there a 3 different views. What is different is if the reader takes a literal or allegorical view of Scripture. Anything but a pre-Trib Rapture view requires that the reader maintain an allegorical view or picks/chooses Scripture to conform to their beliefs. None-the-less, if a pre-Trib Rapture is wrong, than those of us who believe it to be true have lost nothing, as Scripture teaches that our Salvation is guaranteed, at the moment of Salvation, by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit within our hearts and we will be killed for rejecting the Mark. But, our hope is anchored in the promise by GOD to save us out of the time and place of the Tribulation.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Vendtre said:

But it was accurate. She dismissed the other views with a wave of her hand as if they do not exist.  That is not the case, all three views have their supporters and their biblical support.  To pretend they do not exist does nobody any good.  This is how she seems to address politics as well.

Even if you feel that way, we are discussing a particular issue, not making veiled personal attacks. We discuss issues, not people who post on this forum. It is in the TOS.

[missmuffet]

5 minutes ago, Rick_Parker said:

I think all of us know that there a 3 different views. What is different is if the reader takes a literal or allegorical view of Scripture. Anything but a pre-Trib Rapture view requires that the reader maintain an allegorical view or picks/chooses Scripture to conform to their beliefs. None-the-less, if a pre-Trib Rapture is wrong, than those of us who believe it to be true have lost nothing, as Scripture teaches that our Salvation is guaranteed, at the moment of Salvation, by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit within our hearts and we will be killed for rejecting the Mark. But, our hope is anchored in the promise by GOD to save us out of the time and place of the Tribulation.

I think if a person reads the Bible and takes a total literal view of the Bible they will always come up with a pre trib interpretation. That means not spiritualizing scripture and not giving it their own meaning which many do.

[Vendtre]

7 minutes ago, bopeep1909 said:

I think if a person reads the Bible and takes a total literal view of the Bible they will always come up with a pre trib interpretation. That means not spiritualizing scripture and not giving it their own meaning which many do.

I do not feel comfortable telling anyone they have to agree with my view of the bible or they are reading it wrong.  

[missmuffet]

8 minutes ago, Vendtre said:

I do not feel comfortable telling anyone they have to agree with my view of the bible or they are reading it wrong.  

Your eyes and your brain have digested the words that have been printed on this thread. Life is full of choices. It is between you and God.

[HAZARD]

39 minutes ago, other one said:

And I see all you are sa Ying at his second coming...   and not only do I read the bible, I  also listen to it...  read it in about a dozen translations and look a lot of things up in the original languages....  and i still see it in one last coming..

Ok, I don't see it that way? The Rapture of the church should never be confused with the second coming or second advent  of Christ, for He does not come to the earth at that time.

The Rapture is a distinct coming in itself, not to the Earth, but in the air where Christ meets the saints and then takes them back to Heaven to present them blameless before God the Father, John 14:1-3;

 

1 Thess. 4:16, 17;

 

V, 16, For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
   

V, 17, Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

The Rapture takes place several years before the literal advent of Christ to the Earth, for they, the saints come back with Him at that time. The saints are in Heaven before God, and not in the air, from the time of the Rapture to their coming again with Christ to reign as kings and priests, Jude 14; Rev. 19:14; Zech. 14:5.

At the Rapture, the Lord comes from Heaven as far as the air, or Earthly Heavens and the saints will be caught up to meet Him in the air.

At the second coming, the saints are not raptured, and neither is Christ, but both will come back to the Earth together. The rapture takes place before the Tribulation, whereas the second Advent takes place after the Tribulation. The Rapture could occur at any time, whereas the second Advent cannot occur until after the tribulation.

 

How can we tell if the language or translation is literal of figurative? This is one of the most simple questions to answer. Any man or woman with ordinary intelligence between the two ways of expressing the truth. The one fundamental rule to determine whether language is literal or figurative is this.
Take every statement in the Bible as literal when it is at all possible and where it is clear that it is literal, otherwise, it is figurative. In other words, what cannot be literal must be figurative. The subject matter itself as expressed in human language will always make this clear. One must be sure the language if figurative before giving it a figurative meaning. If it seems hard to determine by the words of the subject matter, then Scriptures on the same subject will clear up the difficulty. There are always plain literal statements in the Bible proving every doctrine, so if a figurative statement is found in the Bible on the same  subject, explain the figurative passage with the literal passages.
Remember, no figure of speech ever does away with the literal truth, but merely expresses it in another way. Figures of speech are of two main kinds; first, those involving only a word as in Gal. 2:9 where Peter, James, and John are called "pillars" of the church; second, those involving thought expressed in several words, or sentences, as the parable, allegory, symbol, type, riddle, fable, enigma, etc. With a knowledge of the general plan of God, what the Scriptures are, and how to interpret them, we can study the Bible and its eternal plan for mankind. Without a general knowledge of the entire plan of God for mankind we are faced with contradictions, opposition against God's Word which tries to turn men away from the truths God wants men to get in order for them to be blessed."
 
Every person who has any knowledge of these forms of human expression should understand the Bible just as he does any other books. All these forms of human expression were used by God in giving His revelations of all things and of Himself. He used them for the same purpose as men do, to convey literal truths. All men can understand the Bible alike on the same grounds on which they understand other books where these forms of human language are used if they will be sensible about the Bible as they are with other books.
 
Men do not SPIRITUALISE other books or make every literal statement in the SYMBOLIC and MYSTICAL, and there is no excuse for us to do this with Bible truths.
When such human language is used in other books, men do not differ so much. They do not make them mean anything that they want the to mean. They are sensible with the writings of others and put forth every effort to get the intended idea of the author, but when it comes to the Bible the intent of God as plainly stated means nothing to the average person. Just so each person can change and interpret to suit himself, he thinks that his interpretation must be the truth of the Bible.
This method of interpretation is nothing less than satanic opposition against God which tries to turn men away from the truths God wants them to get in order for them to be blessed. If Satan can succeed in his purpose, God and His Word will be discredited, and men will pay little heed to what is written. Men will not be held guiltless for this attitude.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Vendtre said:

I do not feel comfortable telling anyone they have to agree with my view of the bible or they are reading it wrong.  

No one said you were wrong. Those are your words.

[Vendtre]

7 minutes ago, bopeep1909 said:

Your eyes and your brain have digested the words that have been printed on this thread. Life is full of choices. It is between you and God.

Do you find one's view of the end times to be a matter of salvation?