If satan knows the end. Why don't he stop it.

[mevosper]

This topic on Satan is very interesting. In the old testament, "satan" just means "adversary". What I've tried to do as I read through passages that use "satan" is change it to "adversary". I know in my own mind, I can be quite adversarial.

[Retrobyter]

4 hours ago, mevosper said:

This topic on Satan is very interesting. In the old testament, "satan" just means "adversary". What I've tried to do as I read through passages that use "satan" is change it to "adversary". I know in my own mind, I can be quite adversarial.

Shalom, mevosper.

Good! That's a very good way to approach a matter! A court room "adversary" IS "an enemy" to the one on trial. Sometimes, if we encounter a word that SEEMS like a name (like "satan"), we can be deceived (ironically) to think that the passage says something about "Satan." However, it's quite possible that it is simply the usage of a common word that is a COINCIDENCE purely because we associate the word "satan" with the serpent/dragon that we call "Satan." Superficially KNOWING that the word "satan" means "adversary/enemy" doesn't sink into the subconscious where "Satan" is called the "devil!"

That same technique can be used for a HUGE amount of similar "sacred" words that are considered "untouchable"; that is, "touch not the LORD'S anointed" words! Words like "church," "angel," "heaven," "christ," "lord," "kingdom (of Heaven/God)," "gospel," "salvation," "glory," etc. When one has found a new definition; that is, a new definition for YOU, for an old word (although the new definition might actually be an old FORGOTTEN definition for the old word), one must use it over and over again until that new definition finds its way into one's subconscious. And, once you have that new definition "locked in," everything you read in the Scriptures becomes clearer.

HOWEVER, GOOD LUCK sharing that new definition - especially if it is a SYSTEM of new definitions - with others! Where does one even START?!

Anyway, good job!

[Retrobyter]

On February 23, 2016 at 0:30 AM, bfloydo said:

 I do not remember using the word " Hasatan " === in fact I do not believe I have ever seen it, much less know what it might mean. Jesus immediately Rebuked Peter, so I agree he was not a host for Satan. And not a host for another reason, he did not have the Knowledge that Jesus was serving God and his purpose in going forward into certain death( Peter thinking he was protecting Jesus ( God's purpose ).  Kinda reminds me of God saving King Abimelech from sin/ and destruction ... as he was without the knowledge he was about to sin ~ Genesis 20:2        Abimelech seems to mean "My Father is King"   

P.S. - Travel flows from left to right in the avatar, landing in Isra'el.   

 P.S - Careful now an Avatar as used in Hinduism, as a deity or supreme being may travel up and down, or is everywhere and needs not travel for its presence is in all dimensions not just 2 or 3 of our limited computing prowess.   Just playing around a little  =-)

God Bless

Bob

Shalom, bfloydo (Bob).

LOL! Well, in my case, I'm just using the word "avatar" for the picture in a circle that you see under "Retrobyter Veteran Member" in the upper left corner of the post. All I was saying is that the image of the "rapture" has lines representing "angel flight" from the left to the right where their gathered resurrectees meet the Lord Yeshua` in the air above the Middle East to aid the Messiah in His rescue of Israel's people.

[mevosper]

10 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, mevosper.

Good! That's a very good way to approach a matter! A court room "adversary" IS "an enemy" to the one on trial. Sometimes, if we encounter a word that SEEMS like a name (like "satan"), we can be deceived (ironically) to think that the passage says something about "Satan." However, it's quite possible that it is simply the usage of a common word that is a COINCIDENCE purely because we associate the word "satan" with the serpent/dragon that we call "Satan." Superficially KNOWING that the word "satan" means "adversary/enemy" doesn't sink into the subconscious where "Satan" is called the "devil!"

That same technique can be used for a HUGE amount of similar "sacred" words that are considered "untouchable"; that is, "touch not the LORD'S anointed" words! Words like "church," "angel," "heaven," "christ," "lord," "kingdom (of Heaven/God)," "gospel," "salvation," "glory," etc. When one has found a new definition; that is, a new definition for YOU, for an old word (although the new definition might actually be an old FORGOTTEN definition for the old word), one must use it over and over again until that new definition finds its way into one's subconscious. And, once you have that new definition "locked in," everything you read in the Scriptures becomes clearer.

HOWEVER, GOOD LUCK sharing that new definition - especially if it is a SYSTEM of new definitions - with others! Where does one even START?!

Anyway, good job!

Is that a hint of minty sarcasm. OOOOO, it is so tingly. 

It helps me with understanding the text. Like for instance one of those "untouchable" words you mentioned: angel = messenger. I'm now clear that when the angel in Rev 8:13 and Rev 14:6 flies through the midst of heaven, the text isn't talking about a satellite. 

Or here is another one. Jesus and Joshua actually mean the same thing. Oh, and christ = anointed.

Surely you cannot believe there is a being in a red suit with horns, a tail, and a pitchfork poking his finger into people's minds making them think and do bad things. This is surely an easy way to relieve one's self of any implication, "The devil made me do it" mentality.

To answer your question, "Where does one event START?!" Try these:

[Psa 111:10 KJV]
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.

[Pro 9:10 KJV]
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

 

[FresnoJoe]

On 2/19/2016 at 3:27 PM, tigger398 said:

satan knows the bible and he knows it well. So why can't he try to stop the prophecy.

I Believe His Hate Filled Pride

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: Isaiah 14:12-13

Compels Satan To Believe His Own Lies

I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. Isaiah 14:14-15

And Yes Beloved, He Does Try To Stop Prophecy

And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.  And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Revelation 20:7-10

PS: Don't Mess With Jesus

[JohnD]

On 2/19/2016 at 3:27 PM, tigger398 said:

satan knows the bible and he knows it well. So why can't he try to stop the prophecy.

The brief answer is:

The end is already finished on the cross. Nothing can be changed.

God detains the finish / wrap up of history to allow for those who will believe in his Son to be born and saved.

Then he will implement the great tribulation which is geared to restore Israel to faith.

This will require the loosening of the devil for a short season.

His only effort is not to stop the already done deal but to steal as many away as he can before the end...

[Retrobyter]

On February 25, 2016 at 8:31 AM, mevosper said:

Is that a hint of minty sarcasm. OOOOO, it is so tingly. 

It helps me with understanding the text. Like for instance one of those "untouchable" words you mentioned: angel = messenger. I'm now clear that when the angel in Rev 8:13 and Rev 14:6 flies through the midst of heaven, the text isn't talking about a satellite. 

Or here is another one. Jesus and Joshua actually mean the same thing. Oh, and christ = anointed.

Surely you cannot believe there is a being in a red suit with horns, a tail, and a pitchfork poking his finger into people's minds making them think and do bad things. This is surely an easy way to relieve one's self of any implication, "The devil made me do it" mentality.

To answer your question, "Where does one event START?!" Try these:

[Psa 111:10 KJV]
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.

[Pro 9:10 KJV]
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

 

Shabbat shalom, mevosper.

Why are you on the defensive?!! I was being SERIOUS! There was absolutely NO "minty sarcasm" involved at all! Testing a definition in the context is a VERY GOOD WAY TO UNDERSTAND A WORD! You have FAILED in your whole approach with your vinegar-filled attitude! It has cost you EVERY word you've mentioned in this post!

Have you considered, for instance, what the "angel" says to Yochanan (John) in Rev. 21:9-22:9?

Revelation 21:9; 22:8-9
9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
...

8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
KJV

The Greek text says,

9 Kai legei moi, “Hora mee; sundoulos sou eimi kai toon adelfooi sou toon profeetoon kai toon teerountoon tous logous tou bibliou toutou; too Theoo proskuneeson.”

9 Kai = 9 And/Also
legei = he-said
moi, = to-me,
“Hora = “Look
mee; = no!
sundoulos = a-co-slave
sou = of-you/your
eimi = I-am
kai = and/also
toon = of-the
adelfooi = brothers-(and-sisters)
sou = of-you/your
toon = of-the
profeetoon = prophets
kai = and/also
toon = of-the
teerountoon = guardians
tous = of-the
logous = words
tou = of-the
bibliou = book
toutou; = this-one;
too = to-the
Theoo = God
proskuneeson.” = bow-the-knee.”

9 And/Also he-said to-me, “Look no! a-co-slave of-you/your I-am and/also of-the brothers-(and-sisters) of-you/your of-the prophets and/also of-the guardians of-the words of-the book this-one; to-the God bow-the-knee.”

9 And he said to me, "Look! No! I am a co-slave of you and of your brothers and sisters, of the prophets and of the guardians of the words of this book; bow the knee to God!"

In his statement, there is only one verb, eimi. Most feel that the wording means "I am a co-slave (1) of you and (2) of your brothers and sisters, (3) of the prophets and (4) of the guardians of the words of this book;..."

HOWEVER, because of the wording and the comparison of the word "sou" without extra punctuation, it would make more logical sense to mean, "I (1) am a co-slave (a) of you and (b) of your brothers and sisters, (2) (I am) of the prophets and (3) (I am) of the guardians of the words of this book;..." Thus, he is claiming to have been once human as one of the prophets and the guardians (transcribers) of the words of this book! He is a HUMAN "messenger" to John!

So, if one "angel" in Revelation was human or was once human, why couldn't more be human, as well? Because "they fly?" Well, what did Yeshua` do when He ascended into the sky? If that wasn't "flying" then we've got to re-define the word "fly!" This is part of the reason why I think some people believe that people who die become angels. They don't change their appearance nor do they grow wings nor do they change in their "species," so to speak. They were messengers (prophets) for God in their life before death, and they continue to be God's messengers (aggeloi --> "angels") after death.

It's like Moses and Elijah appearing to Yeshua` (Jesus) at His transfiguration on the mount (Matthew 17:3; Mark 9:4; Luke 9:30), called "two MEN" (Greek: andres duo) by Luke, and like the "two MEN" (Greek: andres duo) who appeared to the women at the tomb (Luke 24:4) and after the ascension of Yeshua` to the disciples (Acts 1:10).

Regarding "Jesus = Joshua," they don't. I've already said this. Go back and READ it again (or for the first time).

"Christ," coming from the Greek word "christos," DOES INDEED mean "anointed," but what does "anointed" mean? Some say it means to "pour oil upon" someone or something, but that's not enough! It really means "TO RUB!" It's like what we do with shampoo; it's not enough to just "pour" the shampoo on your hair; one must then "RUB" or "MASSAGE" it into one's hair and scalp! That's what the Hebrew word "maashach" (OT:4886) means!

Nope, I NEVER have believed in the red suit, barbed tail, horns, pitchfork imagery for "haSatan," being a PK (Preacher's Kid) and being taught early that "Satan was an angel of light." Nor do I believe in "the devil made me do it" philosophy, made popular in the '70s by Flip Wilson. If the demons have any power at all, it would be to provide a person with the temptations to which he or she is most susceptible and at which he or she would most likely fail, but it is WE OURSELVES who DECIDE to sin in succumbing to that or any temptation to which we are most vulnerable. We CHOOSE to sin.

Besides, what I was talking about is that we have a memory that is superficial; that is, on the surface: we KNOW certain facts, like "'satan' means 'adversary.'" But, we also have a deep-rooted memory, usually tied to our learning experiences as a child, that is harder to break, like "'Satan' is the name of the devil."

BUT, what if "'Satan' is NOT the NAME of the devil." What if, instead, it is a DESCRIPTION of the devil?!

Even, "devil" is a description for this being. "Devil" being the translation word for the Greek word "diabolos," means "one who 'throws' objects 'through' our image" to accuse us! Strong's says it means a "traducer," but who uses that word anymore (if they EVER did)? So, one must look up "traducer" and one will find that it means "one who tells lies about another," a "SLANDERER!"

So, the Hebrew word "satan" means "enemy/opponent"

and the Greek word "diabolos" ("devil") means "slanderer."

Finally, if you'll look at the one letter in red above in your quote, I didn't say "event"; I said "even"! "Where does one EVEN start?!" And, I meant because all of these definitions are entwined!

[mevosper]

On 2/27/2016 at 2:23 PM, Retrobyter said:

Why are you on the defensive?!! I was being SERIOUS! There was absolutely NO "minty sarcasm" involved at all! Testing a definition in the context is a VERY GOOD WAY TO UNDERSTAND A WORD! You have FAILED in your whole approach with your vinegar-filled attitude! It has cost you EVERY word you've mentioned in this post!

My apologies, Retro. At times I expect some to be on the offense and I respond in kind. I wasn't clear on where you were coming from. I hope you can forgive my vinegar-ess approach. 

I hope we can continue this dialog.

 

On 2/27/2016 at 2:23 PM, Retrobyter said:

Regarding "Jesus = Joshua," they don't. I've already said this. Go back and READ it again (or for the first time).

Actually, they do. According to Strong's definitions, Thayers Greek Lexicon, Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon, and Vine's Expository Dictionary of the New Testatment, they both mean "Jehovah is salvation".  https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=G2424&t=KJV, https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H3091

 

On 2/27/2016 at 2:23 PM, Retrobyter said:

Nope, I NEVER have believed in the red suit, barbed tail, horns, pitchfork imagery for "haSatan," being a PK (Preacher's Kid) and being taught early that "Satan was an angel of light." Nor do I believe in "the devil made me do it" philosophy, made popular in the '70s by Flip Wilson. If the demons have any power at all, it would be to provide a person with the temptations to which he or she is most susceptible and at which he or she would most likely fail, but it is WE OURSELVES who DECIDE to sin in succumbing to that or any temptation to which we are most vulnerable. We CHOOSE to sin.

Besides, what I was talking about is that we have a memory that is superficial; that is, on the surface: we KNOW certain facts, like "'satan' means 'adversary.'" But, we also have a deep-rooted memory, usually tied to our learning experiences as a child, that is harder to break, like "'Satan' is the name of the devil."

BUT, what if "'Satan' is NOT the NAME of the devil." What if, instead, it is a DESCRIPTION of the devil?!

Even, "devil" is a description for this being. "Devil" being the translation word for the Greek word "diabolos," means "one who 'throws' objects 'through' our image" to accuse us! Strong's says it means a "traducer," but who uses that word anymore (if they EVER did)? So, one must look up "traducer" and one will find that it means "one who tells lies about another," a "SLANDERER!"

So, the Hebrew word "satan" means "enemy/opponent"

and the Greek word "diabolos" ("devil") means "slanderer."

I do not believe in the "red-suited" guy either. I do believe I need to look deep in myself and answer some very difficult questions. I need to be aware of that angel of light that may come. And because of who I am, I continually ask God for his forgiveness. I need to make sure that I'm not the one opposing or exalting myself above all that is called God. 

EDIT: Oh, the "t" in "even" was a typo. I was thinking "even" and typed "event". Again, apologies for the misunderstanding

[Retrobyter]

15 hours ago, mevosper said:

My apologies, Retro. At times I expect some to be on the offense and I respond in kind. I wasn't clear on where you were coming from. I hope you can forgive my vinegar-ess approach. 

I hope we can continue this dialog.

 

Actually, they do. According to Strong's definitions, Thayers Greek Lexicon, Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon, and Vine's Expository Dictionary of the New Testatment, they both mean "Jehovah is salvation".  https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=G2424&t=KJV, https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H3091

 

I do not believe in the "red-suited" guy either. I do believe I need to look deep in myself and answer some very difficult questions. I need to be aware of that angel of light that may come. And because of who I am, I continually ask God for his forgiveness. I need to make sure that I'm not the one opposing or exalting myself above all that is called God. 

EDIT: Oh, the "t" in "even" was a typo. I was thinking "even" and typed "event". Again, apologies for the misunderstanding

Shalom, mevosper.

Absolutely we can continue!

Actually, they DON'T! With all due respect to Strong's and Blue Letter Bible, they may be somewhat good about many words, but they have problems when it comes to grammar. In fact, the closest study help (outside Biblesoft's PC Study Bible v5) is BibleHub when it comes to grammar.

For all the wonderful accomplishments of Strong's, Thayer's, Gesenius', and Vine's, the authors and editors are still Gentiles trying to understand Hebrew. It's NOT their mother-tongue! And, they are great with the words, particularly nouns, but they don't know SQUAT about Hebrew grammar! (And, they don't do much with Greek grammar, either.) One can do better with a simple Hebrew primer! I'm telling you the truth; it's not just my opinion! The name Yeeshuwa` (Jeshua) means "HE shall save" or "HE shall rescue!" The name Yhowshuwa` (Jehoshua) means "YHWH shall rescue!" They are TWO DIFFERENT NAMES! They are absolutely NOT synonymous! And, one is not an "abbreviation" of the other! Hebrew doesn't work that way!

As far as the names being transliterated into the Greek, the transliterators were not too careful with the process. It's similar to how YHWH, Adonai, and Adoniy are ALL translated as "kurios." Just because they end up being the same Greek transliteration doesn't mean that they all mean the same thing! That's why the quotations in the NT from the OT are so important! They give the link necessary to understand which word "kurios" means in a particular context! So, just because in some instances "Yeeshuwa`" and "Yhowshuwa`" end up transliterated into the Greek as "Ieesous" (from which we get the English transliteration "Jesus"), it does NOT mean that they are the same name in Hebrew! That's a common fallacy: "A is transliterated to C and B is transliterated to C; therefore, A = B."

Greek doesn't have some of the sounds and letters of Hebrew. For instance, it doesn't have the "shin" (the "sh" sound)! The best it can do is APPROXIMATE it with the "sigma" (the "s" sound). Greek doesn't have a true "H" letter like Hebrew does. The Hebrew letter "hei" is the "H" sound, but in Greek, it's the aspirated accent mark (like a open single-quote) over a vowel, making the difference, for instance, between "en" (meaning "in") and "hen" (meaning "one")! And, as far as the weaker pronounced letters like "alef" (the explosive sound we make at the beginning of words like "apple," "egg," and "umbrella") and "`ayin" (making a swallowed "g" sound, similar to the onomatopoeia "gulp"), FORGET ABOUT IT! Greek doesn't have anything even remotely close! (Nor does English, btw.)

So, don't put too much reliance upon study helps; they're just human works that have the same limitations as any other work of human hands.

Oh, and by the way, we can look directly as Scripture for the definition of "Yeeshuwa`":

Matthew 1:21
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS ("Yeeshuwa`"): for he shall save his people from their sins.
KJV