thereselittleflower Posted February 25, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.69 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 25, 2016 2 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said: I am going out on a limb here, but I am not convinced that a modern day Johh could not say: "Bear fruit in keeping with repentance. Being sorry, is not repentance, repentance is changing direction. Do not say to yourselves, that 'we were sincere when we prayed for salvation'! Prove your salvation, by how you live, how else can you measure your sincerity?" We are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. However, saving faith is not alone, it is accompanied by the works that natually flow out of a changed heart. I am not sure that a changed heart, would be bored of God, that sounds like a natural, worldly heart, to me! Mind you, I am not implying that Christians do not have periods of doubt, we can. Not saying there are not times, when we become lax in Bible reading and prayer, and acts of charity, we do. Not saying that all of the sins we used to commit, just fall away, and no longer temp us. What I am saying is, that a Christian, is one who is becoming more like Christ. If that does not describe us, then I think we are foolish to be confident in our salvation. We should heed all the dire warnings of scripture, consider whether they apply to us, personally, as individuals. Am I a person who has been becoming more like Christ, for more than 3 decades? Is there evidence of that? If not, why not? Am I a new creature, or just the old creature, with a new act? If the latter, I might deceive others, I can even delude myself, but I won't fool God! Certainly, if I think myself to be lukewarm, I should be afraid, very afraid, or am I wrong about that? I agree with you completely: If that does not describe us, then I think we are foolish to be confident in our salvation. We should heed all the dire warnings of scripture, consider whether they apply to us, personally, as individuals. Yes, this is true. If that does not describe us, then I think we are foolish to be confident in our salvation. We should heed all the dire warnings of scripture, consider whether they apply to us, personally, as individuals. This is true Certainly, if I think myself to be lukewarm, I should be afraid, very afraid, or am I wrong about that? This is true. You are not wrong about that. If we are lukewarm, I believe we should be afraid, very afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted February 25, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 186 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,244 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 16,658 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted February 25, 2016 Heb. 12:23-25 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much more as you see the Day approaching. Some people choose not to attend a local church. Some are unable to do so because of health. Some must work on days of worship. Any and all of these may be vulnerable to becoming weak in faith, and less likely to withstand severe trials. Others may be weakened by the constant hammering of the secular educational system which largely promotes atheism, especially in higher grades and higher education. Some are worn down. I think this is why we must work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. But God is able to keep us. For it is God Who works in us both to will and to do for His good pleasure. But we must bend our will to His and to take His warnings seriously. We are to guard our hearts against a root of bitterness. We are to forgive as we have been forgiven. God's love is meant to flow through us to others. We have as much a need to give, allowing Christ to live in us, as we do to be nurtured by His grace and love. So we are to stir one another to love and good works. So yes, we can become lukewarm Christians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kan Posted February 25, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,661 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 1,292 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/21/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted February 25, 2016 The true church would be one that loves - genuinely. Jesus said "by this shall the world know you are my disciples, by your love for one another." He could have said by your love for others, but He didn't. So people in the world, will witness respect and deep trust, and will want the same to be in it. they will be witnesses that the followers of Christ have something that the world does not. It's real, no more faking. The ultimate human need is to be in a love relationship, where there is complete serenity. The world doesn't have that, they have competition, lust and pretending. Better is a good slap in the face than bad love. Many people are sick of seeing actors and being an actor. They want freedom from the religiously and politically correct, they want to be totally authentic and honest, and free of fear in love. So then, a luke warm church must be one that pretends to love. It has all the nice cliches and smiles, but would rather be at the movies. Why, because there is fear there. Fear of exposure, fear of change, fear of what? Perfect love casts out all fear. So can a person grasp the gospel and not be enthusiastic ? I don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bible_Gazer Posted February 25, 2016 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 450 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 152 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/05/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted February 25, 2016 Revelation 3:15-16 15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. Why would Jesus rather a person be cold than lukewarm ? Is it because it is easier to judge them quickly ? Assuming that hot is someone with a zeal for God is safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted February 25, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.69 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 25, 2016 I think if anyone has ever tasted something that is so repugnant and revulsive when it is luke warm (which tastes just fine when it is cold or hot) then they can have a hard time understand what Jesus is saying. I know that until that happened to me, and it made me gag so badly I had to forcefully spew it out of my mouth, I didn't quite understand it. Now I do, - and graphically so! It is a lesson I will never forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinitin Posted February 25, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 51 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,366 Content Per Day: 0.78 Reputation: 2,150 Days Won: 9 Joined: 01/10/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted February 25, 2016 18 hours ago, Rick_Parker said: I think that a "lukewarm" Christian can be confident they are saved based on the fact, if they were sincere at their moment of profession of faith, that Jesus Christ died for their sins and accept His death as payment for their sins. I think that is a hornets nest. For one, we don't know what is in a persons heart. Secondly, there are so many New Testament scriptures that warn us about being deceived into false hopes by men. Yes, we can boldly encourage people by extending the free invitation of the Son of God, the hope, the love of God, the finished work of Christ but if we frustrate the work of the Holy Spirit that convicts men of sin, righteousness and Gods Judgment. We keep the Lord from getting people to a place of calling from their heart. Giving our blessed assurance to someone who hasn't received a blessed assurance from the Lord can actually get in His way of salvation. There will be deceived men saying Lord, Lord on the day of judgment and we should alway be careful not to be the one who gives false hope short of God's saving grace. To me it is better to be someone that keeps sending a person back to Christ for assurance and keeps praying they are forgiven and praying the Lord completes His work in them. I know God subjected all creation to frustration in hope. I think we have to trust in hope, encouraging and loving and testifying to Christ those God could be frustrating. Some people are offering a formula of works for salvation and assuring people if they check all the boxes of works they are saved and Not testifying about Christ who is alive and actively saving. I sure don't want to see anyone I influenced standing on His left hand. The ones on His right are the ones who came to Him we have to send people to Him to be influenced by Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 You are right. We cannot know what is in a person's heart and whether they meant it when they accepted Christ as their personal savior. It is our job to tell people about Christ, it is the Holy Spirit's job to save them. I have never said anything about giving someone false hope. All I did was respond to the question of whether one could be certain of their salvation if they have a "lukewarm" relationship with Christ. I said that I was even when I was living in the world. I knew that I was saved, not because of what I did but because of what I believed. That is what our hope is based upon, that all who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved and that GOD would not let Christ loose even one of us once we are saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinitin Posted February 25, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 51 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,366 Content Per Day: 0.78 Reputation: 2,150 Days Won: 9 Joined: 01/10/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted February 25, 2016 15 minutes ago, Rick_Parker said: You are right. We cannot know what is in a person's heart and whether they meant it when they accepted Christ as their personal savior. It is our job to tell people about Christ, it is the Holy Spirit's job to save them. I have never said anything about giving someone false hope. All I did was respond to the question of whether one could be certain of their salvation if they have a "lukewarm" relationship with Christ. I said that I was even when I was living in the world. I knew that I was saved, not because of what I did but because of what I believed. That is what our hope is based upon, that all who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved and that GOD would not let Christ loose even one of us once we are saved. I wasn't saying you did. I'm not good with written words. I just wanted to ad to your post something I was guilty of till the Lord straightened it out in me what was the true gospel that saves is (Jesus). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 That's fine. No harm, no foul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinitin Posted February 25, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 51 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,366 Content Per Day: 0.78 Reputation: 2,150 Days Won: 9 Joined: 01/10/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted February 25, 2016 12 minutes ago, Rick_Parker said: That's fine. No harm, no foul. thank you for grace:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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