House of Israel House of Judah

[WilliamL]

On 3/2/2016 at 10:15 PM, JohnD said:

These distinctions have to be made otherwise replacement theology would be true (and it's not).

The physical Jew is the elect / chosen of this world.

The spirit Jew is the elect chosen of the heaven-earth to come.

That's right. Another way to put it is that the physical race of Israel is a bloodline, and "the soul of the flesh is in the blood." Lev. 17:11 So Israel and all the other nations are soul-lines, that is, collective soul-bodies.

Whereas the Church is a spiritual body, in which resides souls from all nations.

[Qnts2]

1 hour ago, WilliamL said:

That's right. Another way to put it is that the physical race of Israel is a bloodline, and "the soul of the flesh is in the blood." Lev. 17:11 So Israel and all the other nations are soul-lines, that is, collective soul-bodies.

Whereas the Church is a spiritual body, in which resides souls from all nations.

That is true, the Church is a spiritual body with people from all nations. The church is not spirit Israel as Israel is a physical linage. Some of Israel are 'spiritual' or members of the Church/Ecclesia and some are not. 

The term Gentiles, in the OT, is translated from Goyim, or nations, and Gentile is used as the translation when it is clear that the nations being mentioned do not include the nation of Israel.

[JohnD]

On 3/2/2016 at 10:28 AM, Ezra said:

Please read and study Romans 9 through 11.  And please note (Acts 1:6,7):

When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

Also, Zionist Israel is NOT the kingdom of Israel, redeemed and restored under Christ. But they are located in a portion of the Promised Land (which will be expanded by about 10 times its current size).

well said

[JohnD]

On 3/3/2016 at 10:40 PM, Joline said:

I think flesh (physical) is flesh. Spirit is spirit.

There is no replacement theology, as the Church is a spiritual entity. This world is not our citizenship.

precisely my point.

[Guest]

14 hours ago, Qnts2 said:

That is true, the Church is a spiritual body with people from all nations. The church is not spirit Israel as Israel is a physical linage. Some of Israel are 'spiritual' or members of the Church/Ecclesia and some are not. 

 

I am not so sure Israel is only a physical lineage either. As it depends on how it is reckoned. We see the tribe of Levi not reckoned among the tribes of Israel, as heirs. The Levites receive the priesthood as their inheritance, not the land. But we do see the levites in revelation.

[JohnD]

Um, not quite sure what you are getting at.

The physical Jewish people (physical Israel) will be in human history right up to the end. In fact, the purpose for the Great Tribulation is to force them to their wits end to cry out to Jesus as a last resort since nothing else has worked and the armies of the entire world are coming down on them hellbent on their total annihilation... and Jesus will come! 

And that is the end of human history.

So of course Levites will be present.

 

[Qnts2]

12 hours ago, Joline said:

I am not so sure Israel is only a physical lineage either. As it depends on how it is reckoned. We see the tribe of Levi not reckoned among the tribes of Israel, as heirs. The Levites receive the priesthood as their inheritance, not the land. But we do see the levites in revelation.

The tribes of Israel are based on the 12 sons of Jacob. Levi was a son of Jacob and all the descendents of Levi make up the tribe of Levi.

The tribe of Levi did not inherit land as you said but that does not mean they are not a tribe of Israel.

Rev. 7:7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.

Numbers 3:6 Bring the tribe of Levi near, and present them before Aaron the priest, that they may minister unto him.

Numbers 18:2 Bring the tribe of Levi near, and present them before Aaron the priest, that they may minister unto him.

Ezekiel 48:31And the gates of the city shall be after the names of the tribes of Israel: three gates northward; one gate of Reuben, one gate of Judah, one gate of Levi.

³² And at the east side four thousand and five hundred: and three gates; and one gate of Joseph, one gate of Benjamin, one gate of Dan.

³³ And at the south side four thousand and five hundred measures: and three gates; one gate of Simeon, one gate of Issachar, one gate of Zebulun.

³⁴ At the west side four thousand and five hundred, with their three gates; one gate of Gad, one gate of Asher, one gate of Naphtali.

 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Qnts2 said:

The tribes of Israel are based on the 12 sons of Jacob. Levi was a son of Jacob and all the descendents of Levi make up the tribe of Levi.

The tribe of Levi did not inherit land as you said but that does not mean they are not a tribe of Israel.

Rev. 7:7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.

Numbers 3:6 Bring the tribe of Levi near, and present them before Aaron the priest, that they may minister unto him.

Numbers 18:2 Bring the tribe of Levi near, and present them before Aaron the priest, that they may minister unto him.

Ezekiel 48:31And the gates of the city shall be after the names of the tribes of Israel: three gates northward; one gate of Reuben, one gate of Judah, one gate of Levi.

³² And at the east side four thousand and five hundred: and three gates; and one gate of Joseph, one gate of Benjamin, one gate of Dan.

³³ And at the south side four thousand and five hundred measures: and three gates; one gate of Simeon, one gate of Issachar, one gate of Zebulun.

³⁴ At the west side four thousand and five hundred, with their three gates; one gate of Gad, one gate of Asher, one gate of Naphtali.

 

That is what I am saying. It depends on how it is reckoned.

Jos 18:7  But the Levites have no part among you; for the priesthood of the LORD is their inheritance:

As you said..........."Levi was a son of Jacob"

But in the Sinai covenant they are not counted as a tribe........................

Nu 1:49  Only thou shalt not number the tribe of Levi neither take the sum of them among the children of Israel:
Nu 18:21  And, behold, I have given the children of Levi  all the tenth in Israel for an inheritance, for their service which they serve, even the service of the tabernacle of the congregation.De 10:9  Wherefore Levi  hath no part nor inheritance with his brethren; the LORD is his inheritance, according as the LORD thy God promised him.
De 18:1  The priests the Levites, and all the tribe of Levi shall have no part nor inheritance with Israel: they shall eat the offerings of the LORD made by fire, and his inheritance.
.Jos 13:14  Only unto the tribe of Levi he gave none inheritance; the sacrifices of the LORD God of Israel made by fire are their inheritance, as he said unto them.
Jos 13:33  But unto the tribe of Levi Moses gave not any inheritance: the LORD God of Israel was their inheritance, as he said unto them.
 

Nu 2:33  But the Levites were not numbered among the children of Israel; as the LORD commanded Moses.
Nu 3:9  And thou shalt give the Levites unto Aaron and to his sons: they are wholly given unto him out of the children of Israel.
Nu 3:12  And I, behold, I have taken the Levites from among the children of Israel instead of all the firstborn that openeth the matrix among the children of Israel: therefore the Levites shall be mine;
Nu 3:45  Take the Levites instead of all the firstborn among the children of Israel, and the cattle of the Levites instead of their cattle; and the Levites shall be mine: I am the LORD.
 

Nu 8:14  Thus shalt thou separate the Levites from among the children of Israel: and the Levites shall be mine.
Nu 18:23  But the Levites shall do the service of the tabernacle of the congregation, and they shall bear their iniquity: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations, that among the children of Israel they have no inheritance.
Nu 18:24  But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto the LORD, I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance.
De 18:1  The priests the Levites, and all the tribe of Levi, shall have no part nor inheritance with Israel: they shall eat the offerings of the LORD made by fire, and his inheritance.
Jos 14:3  For Moses had given the inheritance of two tribes and an half tribe on the other side Jordan: but unto the Levites he gave none inheritance among them.
 

[Qnts2]

40 minutes ago, Joline said:

That is what I am saying. It depends on how it is reckoned.

Jos 18:7  But the Levites have no part among you; for the priesthood of the LORD is their inheritance:

As you said..........."Levi was a son of Jacob"

But in the Sinai covenant they are not counted as a tribe........................

Nu 1:49  Only thou shalt not number the tribe of Levi neither take the sum of them among the children of Israel:
Nu 18:21  And, behold, I have given the children of Levi  all the tenth in Israel for an inheritance, for their service which they serve, even the service of the tabernacle of the congregation.De 10:9  Wherefore Levi  hath no part nor inheritance with his brethren; the LORD is his inheritance, according as the LORD thy God promised him.
De 18:1  The priests the Levites, and all the tribe of Levi shall have no part nor inheritance with Israel: they shall eat the offerings of the LORD made by fire, and his inheritance.
.Jos 13:14  Only unto the tribe of Levi he gave none inheritance; the sacrifices of the LORD God of Israel made by fire are their inheritance, as he said unto them.
Jos 13:33  But unto the tribe of Levi Moses gave not any inheritance: the LORD God of Israel was their inheritance, as he said unto them.
 

Nu 2:33  But the Levites were not numbered among the children of Israel; as the LORD commanded Moses.
Nu 3:9  And thou shalt give the Levites unto Aaron and to his sons: they are wholly given unto him out of the children of Israel.
Nu 3:12  And I, behold, I have taken the Levites from among the children of Israel instead of all the firstborn that openeth the matrix among the children of Israel: therefore the Levites shall be mine;
Nu 3:45  Take the Levites instead of all the firstborn among the children of Israel, and the cattle of the Levites instead of their cattle; and the Levites shall be mine: I am the LORD.
 

Nu 8:14  Thus shalt thou separate the Levites from among the children of Israel: and the Levites shall be mine.
Nu 18:23  But the Levites shall do the service of the tabernacle of the congregation, and they shall bear their iniquity: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations, that among the children of Israel they have no inheritance.
Nu 18:24  But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto the LORD, I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance.
De 18:1  The priests the Levites, and all the tribe of Levi, shall have no part nor inheritance with Israel: they shall eat the offerings of the LORD made by fire, and his inheritance.
Jos 14:3  For Moses had given the inheritance of two tribes and an half tribe on the other side Jordan: but unto the Levites he gave none inheritance among them.
 

You are confusing what the verses are saying. Levi did not inherit land so Levi is not counted as far as land only. Levi is counted as Israel as Levi was a descendent of Israel and all decendents of Levi are included or counted as Israel in every other verse referencing the children of Israel. Context is important, don't take a verse to mean more or less then it means. Levites lived in designated cities and made a living by being Priests. The other tribes of Israel made a living by other means, most from their land, some by other methods such as fishing. All tribes are children of Israel. 

Women did not inherit land (with one exception), but women descended from Jacob were children of Israel. The Mosaic covenant was given by God to the children of Israel, and Levites, women, and all tribes were obligated to the Mosaic covenant.   

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Qnts2 said:

You are confusing what the verses are saying. Levi did not inherit land so Levi is not counted as far as land only. Levi is counted as Israel as Levi was a descendent of Israel and all decendents of Levi are included or counted as Israel in every other verse referencing the children of Israel. Context is important, do don't take a verse to mean more or less then it means. Levites lived in cities and made a living by being Priests. The other tribes of Israel made a living by other means, most from their land, some by other methods such as fishing.   

Well we can see that Levie was separated out. And as I said, it depends on HOW IT IS RECKONED. The inheritance was the LAND. That is continuous reality that they were to inherit the land promised. So no the context of which I said, it depends on how Israel is reckoned, I am speaking of the covenant to inherit the land.....

Vs

the inheritance of the priesthood, and the covenant of the priesthood

Jos 18:7  But the Levites have no part among you; for the priesthood of the LORD is their inheritance:

Ne 13:29  Remember them, O my God, because they have defiled the priesthood, and the covenant of the priesthood, and of the Levites.

In this Israelites are said to be the strangers..................