i was asked not to attend my church

[Guest lily]

I have a friend who was going to a baptist church, we attended once, but one

Sunday our friend came home with a pamphlet that the church passed out, it was

a list of things that you had to believe in order to be a member of the church.

Among them was, you had to believe that the KJV was the only true bible, and you

were to not have anything to do with anything else, also you had to believe that

the rapture is a pre-trib rapture, fff is evil, the color black is evil, you should have

nothing black, the list went on and on. Needless to say, we never went back, but

sadly our friend believed it all and continued. I think it is very sad when churches

make rules and then pass them off as God's word. So the best thing to do is to

have a relationship with God and let him lead the way, not a church.

God Bless You All

[Kabowd]

not stepping in it anymore. I do believe God wanted me out of there i dont need to be around that type of preaching but it's sad because we live in a fairly small city and alot of my wife and I's friends go there, and no they are not legalistic with the exception of the pastor and one other family, but the pastor was not that way when i joined

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Honestly, I recognized there was a huge problem a while back when you were debating in another thread about the King James Version and kept referring to your pastor. I noticed that you were unable to argue this belief with conviction of your own, you would only quote what you had been fed. This was disturbing because this is exactly how cults get started and thrive. (not saying this is a cult, just that there are similarities). Leaders and pastors such as yours, lead out of insecurity. They don't want to teach people how to feed themselves or teach them how to lean on the Holy Spirit for themselves because it threatens them. They want to be in control. So they dictate what they deem as "truth", and anyone who deviates from this "truth" becomes their "enemy". Soulwinner, I believe that God has begun to take off your blinders and show you the real truth. You're beginning to see things as they truly are...you're starting to see them through the eyes of the Holy Spirit (not the eyes of your pastor) and you've seen the filth and the lies. THIS IS A GOOD THING. It's always hard to learn that someone you looked up to isn't who you thought they were. The reality is harsh, and especially troubling when they don't even see their flaws themselves.

I'd strongly suggest that you stay as far away as possible from this pastor and pray really hard for those who remain under his teaching. Pray that God reveals the truth to them also, and that they have the courage to get out or confront him with what God reveals.

One more thing....not to get into the whole "version" debate....but please consider doing some more study regarding the the KJV-Only theology. It's one thing to simply prefer one version...it's entirely another to demand it's the "only right and true" version. To be totally honest with you (and this will probably offend some), but it's not surprising that your church lacks grace and is legalistic considering it's stance on KJV. MANY (if not all) of the people I have encountered who believe that KJV is the only true version are this exact same way ...they lack grace, love and kindness. They become irritated easily and harsh with those who disagree or have differing convictions. Please consider stepping back and searching for the truth on this issue....open your heart to the Holy Spirit and allow Him to reveal the grace and truth of His Word.

I'll be praying for you.

[JesusisGod2]

One more thing....not to get into the whole "version" debate....but please consider doing some more study regarding the the KJV-Only theology. It's one thing to simply prefer one version...it's entirely another to demand it's the "only right and true" version.

Great advice Tess!

[Christ's Free Servant]

I do believe satan has put out these other version and they are changing God's word.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hello Soulwinner!

This will be my second attempt at responding to you. I was previewing my post and tried to make a correction and it did not let me correct it so I tried to go back to this phase of the process and it lost what I wrote. I am new at this, obviously and don't know the routine.

Anyway, I will try to simplify what I said. The KJV of the Bible was not the original. Only the original manuscripts were without error as the divinely inspired word of God. King James ordered the translation of the Bible into English so that people could read it in their own language. We don't speak King James English today, so we need translations in our language that we can read and understand. The NASV is probably the most accurate to the original (more accurate than the KJV, in fact) and the New International Version is also an accurate translation, not as much word for word as the NASV, but more readable. The KJV is written on a 12th grade reading level, the NASV is 10th grade level and the NIV is on a 7th grade reading level, I believe.

I grew up on the KJV of the Bible and most of my memorizing of scripture that I recall is from the KJV, because you do your best memorization as a child. I read my Bible every day because I knew I was supposed to read it every day, but I did not understand it. I began college in 1968 reading on a 4th grade level. Eventually I got up to 7th grade level. In 1976 my pastor introduced me to the NASV Bible and for the first time in my life, the word of God was coming alive to me and I was understanding it. The Holy Spirit was quickening my heart and mind to receive the truths from God's word and was applying them to my life. It was wonderful! I imagine that must be what it is like for people who have never had the Bible in their language and all of a sudden someone translates into their language and they can read it themselves. Awesome! Now I could read it, understand it and apply it to my life. That is the purpose of it, after all.

My father was a KJV Bible only kind of person, but he was also harsh and abusive and unloving. He abused my mother and all five of us children severely while at the same time he was beating us over our heads with the KJV Bible and a very legalistic approach to Christianity. The sad part is that my father is not the exception. In fact, I have seen much of this approach to Christianity in the church, even among clergy. The Bible says we will be hated by the world, but the church is one of the most cruel places I have ever known. That is where I have gotten most of my rejection and mistreatment in life. And, the abuse is all done in the name of Christianity, too. Is it any wonder that non-believers are turned off to religion?

Jesus Christ faced people like that, too. They were called Pharisees and Saduccees. They were the religious leaders of his day who were more concerned about a set of rules than they were about showing love to people. Jesus says that he desires mercy, not sacrifice. The rule he wants us to follow is the rule of love, compassion and mercy. The pastor you mentioned was not unlike these Saduccees and Pharisees of Jesus' day. Jesus had a few words for them, too. You should read them in the gospels. Also in the gospels is the example of Jesus and how he lived and how he treated people, and we are to follow his example.

The Holy Spirit can speak through a donkey if he has to, in order for some of us "Balaams" to understand what he is trying to say. God is not bound by some king's interpretation of the Bible. God can speak through any accurate translation of the Bible, and I don't mean necessarily word for word accurate, but accurate in thought and meaning. It is good to read other translations, because when we have read the word of God many times, sometimes we just read over stuff and don't really pay attention to what it is saying. You can always keep your KJV side by side with the other translations to check for accuracy, but I think you will find that a modern-day accurate English translation will do more for curing what ills your soul than you can possibly imagine. Let God get you "outside the box" in your thinking and let him show you that "it is for freedom that Christ set us free."

God bless you!

Sue

[JesusisGod2]

I dont know if you have sogned up for Georges daily devotional that is sent to your email, but todays subject fits in with what is being discussed here.

  Kevin, look up!

Jeremiah 17:5,7 Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD. Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is.

We have heard numerous people tell us stories about people or pastors in their churches who

[Keith]

Amen and Amen! I will have to register for George's daily devotional. I appreciate you sharing it, Kevin. How true it is!

If we leave a church because we don't like someone... we'll never find a church to go to! Difficult people are used by God to shape us more into His image. Heaven forbid that we think we aren't difficult to other people!

[amor]

not stepping in it anymore. I do believe God wanted me out of there i dont need to be around that type of preaching but it's sad because we live in a fairly small city and alot of my wife and I's friends go there, and no they are not legalistic with the exception of the pastor and one other family, but the pastor was not that way when i joined

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Honestly, I recognized there was a huge problem a while back when you were debating in another thread about the King James Version and kept referring to your pastor. I noticed that you were unable to argue this belief with conviction of your own, you would only quote what you had been fed. This was disturbing because this is exactly how cults get started and thrive. (not saying this is a cult, just that there are similarities). Leaders and pastors such as yours, lead out of insecurity. They don't want to teach people how to feed themselves or teach them how to lean on the Holy Spirit for themselves because it threatens them. They want to be in control. So they dictate what they deem as "truth", and anyone who deviates from this "truth" becomes their "enemy". Soulwinner, I believe that God has begun to take off your blinders and show you the real truth. You're beginning to see things as they truly are...you're starting to see them through the eyes of the Holy Spirit (not the eyes of your pastor) and you've seen the filth and the lies. THIS IS A GOOD THING. It's always hard to learn that someone you looked up to isn't who you thought they were. The reality is harsh, and especially troubling when they don't even see their flaws themselves.

I'd strongly suggest that you stay as far away as possible from this pastor and pray really hard for those who remain under his teaching. Pray that God reveals the truth to them also, and that they have the courage to get out or confront him with what God reveals.

One more thing....not to get into the whole "version" debate....but please consider doing some more study regarding the the KJV-Only theology. It's one thing to simply prefer one version...it's entirely another to demand it's the "only right and true" version. To be totally honest with you (and this will probably offend some), but it's not surprising that your church lacks grace and is legalistic considering it's stance on KJV. MANY (if not all) of the people I have encountered who believe that KJV is the only true version are this exact same way ...they lack grace, love and kindness. They become irritated easily and harsh with those who disagree or have differing convictions. Please consider stepping back and searching for the truth on this issue....open your heart to the Holy Spirit and allow Him to reveal the grace and truth of His Word.

I'll be praying for you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Speaking as a Quaker, and therefore in the eyes of many here a heretic, and therefore someone whose opinions you, as a conservative evangelical, might not value too highly; I think this "church" sounds a very unpleasant cultish place led by a manipulative individual who clearly has too much power and who is willing to attack and suppress those, like yourself, who have the temerity to challenge him or even question his pronouncements. Perhaps you should go back, speak to others in the congregation and explain the problems you see in the ministry, perhaps you should also seek to look at the organizational structure of the institution itself, surely there must be a system that allows the congregation/elders of this group to discipline or get rid of this man. Jonestown and Waco show only too clearly the dangers that congregations face when men like this take power, and those who question them just walk away.

[Guest NewPilgrim]

Whats "wrong" with Quakers??

[soulwinner]

amor the pastor in this church is the final authority or so he thinks he is. as far as going to other church members i don't care to cause a stink there it's not my purpose although i dont think you mean for me to do so, i can see where it could stir up problems i have talked to a couple of people who are really close to me who go there and they are really upset and are going to take it up with the pastor. Thank you everyone for all your prayers and advice this has been a learning tool for me I will still serve God and have thanked him through out the midst of a troubling time. Please lift up my old pastor i think he is a decent pastor and person who is just off in some areas that need to be dealt with, God sometimes uses us in spite of ourselves i hope that he does change.

[O'Dannyboy]

I don't know enough about Quakers to call them heretics no is it my place to label anyone. I am not, nor do I expect to be in a position that would cause me to look down at another person.

I have to admit that the quaker life looks better and better every day. I would like to think Quakers are safer than most. I don't expect they will have to deal with many Gay Pride rallies at any of their barn raisings.

I now wonder how open Quaker communities are. Do they accept people seeking to get away from "the world"? I personally wouldn't be against a commune in the mountains at this point. Get up every morning and do your part for the community, fellowship every day, see the fruits of your heart and hands in the smiles of the children. What a concept, a society where everyone does their part for the success of the community.

I think I will have to meditate on this. This world is by no means Eden or a Utopia. Yet there will be those among you who will acuse me of having a lack of vision or ambition. So be it. I have spent my whole life focussed on myself and what I wan't and need. Not because I thought I was the most important but because I thought I was alone. I now know better.