The Sabbath and Sunday Worship.

[Kindle]

Just now, hmbld said:

Ok, thanks.  I was just asking as I don't know why so many Christians go along with Sunday.  

Ok,well I know the original sabbath was Saturday.  A.D. 325, Pope Sylvester officially named Sunday “ the Lord's Day,”

[simplejeff]

8 minutes ago, hmbld said:

Theory, tradition, I don't know.  Just something I read and wanted to ask about.  As far as billions of souls, are we justified by faith or by keeping the Sabbath?

As far as billions of souls,  the whole world is deceived,  and refuses to repent of serving demons.

Those who do that are not justified by faith , nor by anything else.

[Spock]

21 minutes ago, WailingWall said:

Yeah! Mine to.

REV.14 [12] Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, AND THE FAITH OF JESUS.

I also observe to keep His commandments. Including His 4th

I'm with you, but I understand where the non Sabbath people are coming from.  They believe the 10 commandments were given by Moses TO THE JEWS, and therefore they are not under that OLD law.

They see Jesus talking about all the law being summarized into two laws- Love God with all your heart, love neighbor as self. They now feel free to have their own day of rest/worship. 

That could be the case. 

Now, you and I see things different. We see the moral law continuing forever; we see the church grafted into Israel, and we don't accept the Council  of niceas ruling regarding the Sabbath day as being valid, so we don't accept it. And we probably both reject the motive behind making this new day of rest that is piggybacking on the pagan day of worshipping the sun-god (also anti Semitic) 

All we can do is study the issue, discuss the scriptures, and follow our conscience. I know some believe Romans 14 allows for freedom of choice, but I'm not sure that is what Paul meant, but again, maybe he did. 

The bottom line to me is we are all accountable for our own choices and we all have the HS guiding us, especially if we ask for wisdom in prayer. We should not be frustrated when people disagree and we should not let them frustrate us because we believe. 

Btw, Now that I'm  Retired, I try to have a time of rest and worship EVERY DAY now.  Lol 

cheers,

spock 

[Guest shiloh357]

4 minutes ago, Spock said:

I'm with you, but I understand where the non Sabbath people are coming from.  They believe the 10 commandments were given by Moses TO THE JEWS, and therefore they are not under that OLD law.

That is a bit of an over-simplification of what we believe.   We do not believe that the entire law is done away with.  We believe that there are commandments that were given to Israel that do not carry over into the NT economy.  And we draw a distinction between Israel and the Church because we will end up with rather incoherent theology if we blur those lines.

Quote

 

They see Jesus talking about all the law being summarized into two laws- Love God with all your heart, love neighbor as self. They now feel free to have their own day of rest/worship. 

That could be the case. 

 

There was only one day of rest, but every day is the day of worship. The Bible never specifically limits the Sabbath as the day of worship.  Again, there is an over-simplification taking place where our theology is concerned.   We view Jesus as our Sabbath rest.   He is the embodiment and personification of the Sabbath and what the Sabbath was ultimately pointing to.  We live in a perpetual state of rest in that we find our rest in Him.  That is what the Sabbath is all about.

Quote

Now, you and I see things different. We see the moral law continuing forever; we see the church grafted into Israel, and we don't accept the Council  of niceas ruling regarding the Sabbath day as being valid, so we don't accept it. And we probably both reject the motive behind making this new day of rest that is piggybacking on the pagan day of worshipping the sun-god (also anti Semitic) 

Actually the early church was worshiping on Sunday, long before Constantine and Nicea in 325.   We have the writings of Justin Martyr (150 AD) describing a Sunday morning gathering for worship.

Worshiping on Sunday is not pagan.  I don't know where that idea comes from, but there is nothing to support the notion that Sunday can be singled out as a pagan day of worship. 

 

 

[Guest shiloh357]

I should probably add to my above comments that I am not anti-Sabbath.  I am Jewish and I used to attend Messianic Congregations. I can do the entire Kiddush paragraph in Hebrew.  I know the blessings before and after the Torah readings, I remember the Torah service each Sabbos and the Oneg that followed.  I still have my old tallis around here, somewhere.

I miss some of that, to be truthful.   So I want to make the point that I am not against anyone keeping the Sabbath if they feel led to do so.   I just don't think a biblical case can be made that obligates the church to observe the Sabbath day.

[Spock]

1 hour ago, hmbld said:

No, Spock, just wanted to see what you thought.  I've read different reasons for Sunday, this was one.  As far as the fourth commandment, Shiloh has expressed perfectly the conclusion I've come to after reading this topic for several years now, not just in this thread.

This is good. You studied this for several years and feel you have wisdom and are following it. This is all God can expect, right? 

[Spock]

9 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

I should probably add to my above comments that I am not anti-Sabbath.  I am Jewish and I used to attend Messianic Congregations. I can do the entire Kiddush paragraph in Hebrew.  I know the blessings before and after the Torah readings, I remember the Torah service each Sabbos and the Oneg that followed.  I still have my old tallis around here, somewhere.

I miss some of that, to be truthful.   So I want to make the point that I am not against anyone keeping the Sabbath if they feel led to do so.   I just don't think a biblical case can be made that obligates the church to observe the Sabbath day.

Wow! Thanks for sharing that shiloh. I know you better now and actually feel closer to you for this knowledge.  

Spock. ((((((Man hug))))))

[hmbld]

5 minutes ago, Spock said:

This is good. You studied this for several years and feel you have wisdom and are following it. This is all God can expect, right? 

Well, I guess your maybe right I am following what I feel I've learned, yet I don't think I've decided I know for sure my opinion is right, I still recognize its only my opinion, while I would much rather know the truth than just my opinion.  

[Spock]

28 minutes ago, hmbld said:

Well, I guess your maybe right I am following what I feel I've learned, yet I don't think I've decided I know for sure my opinion is right, I still recognize its only my opinion, while I would much rather know the truth than just my opinion.  

I hear you, brother. For example, I've studied Bible Prophecy for over 30 years and presently adhere to the Pre Wrath Theory regarding end times. But can I absolutely say this is definitely the right one? Nope. 

I can go on about other theories or interpretations too.

obviously some, I feel very confident I am right, like my non catholic viewpoint regarding Mary. I would bet my house I am right on that one. 

As for this one, Sabbath Day, I believe in my heart after researching extensively I may add, that Sabbath Day rest is right for me, and so I will follow it (not work), but honestly, like I said, I quit being dogmatic to others who don't believe as I do. It's not worth it.  But obviously some people have to work out of necessity and doing good. That's certainly ok.

But I still enjoy reading other thoughts, like shiloh, etc. 

This article may be of interest to some who wonder about WORSHIPPING on Sunday. 

http://www.sabbathtruth.com/faq/advanced-topics/the-day-of-the-sun

Edited April 8, 2017 by Spock

[Spock]

Im sure this point has been made, but it should not be omitted:

How does one keep the Sabbath holy?

The word “Sabbath” is related to the Hebrew word for “rest,” and the primary duty of a Jew is to stop working on the Sabbath. Biblically, you keep the Sabbath holy by not working. In Orthodox Judaism, it is a sin to drive a car on the Sabbath, because the Law of Moses prohibits making fires on the Sabbath and cars have internal combustion engines—so driving a car amounts to making a series of little fires. Therefore, if you are an Orthodox Jew, and you live beyond walking distance of the synagogue, it is a sin to attend worship if you have to drive to get there.

Saturday is the Sabbath. Sunday is the Lord’s Day, because Jesus rested in the tomb on the Sabbath and rose on Sunday. Therefore the principal day of Christian worship has always been Sunday—until the 19th century when some Christians innovated the custom of worshiping on the Sabbath.

bottom line: the 4th Commandment does not say you have to worship on Saturday, just don't work.   I also happen to worship on Saturday just because we want to, and we don't want to worship on Sunday. (See article I sited on post above this  for explanation.) My wife and I went to Israel this past year and we loved Sabbath day there so much. Such a blessing to see all the people not working but having this day to rest, reflect, etc.  So if one wants to WORSHIP on any day of the week, I don't see how this could be wrong. Like I said, I try to worship the Lord every day now in prayer, song, and study. 

Exodus 20: 8 l“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 mSix days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the nseventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, onor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For pinsix days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Edited April 8, 2017 by Spock
Add Exodus passage