Determining the Dates for Easter and Passover

[Qnts2]

15 hours ago, Ezra said:

Not according to what is revealed.  Israel was given the holy days under the Old Covenant.  They are null and void under the New Covenant and during the Church Age.  If they were valid for the Church, that would have been clearly spelled out in Acts and the New Testament.  

There may be a revival of these during the Millennium, but that will be in connection with redeemed and restored Israel, when an actual Millennial Temple is brought into existence.  Since there is no Temple on earth, everything pertaining to the Old Covenant has been set aside.  Study Hebrews.

Since the law and prophets (two of three sections which make up the OT), point to Jesus, that means that the Holy Days also speak of Jesus, or are a shadow. In the NT, Jesus Himself showed how these OT Holy Days point to Him and what He would do. Jesus even said, concerning Passover, eat this bread and drink this cup in remembrance of Me.

The Holy Days in the OT are in memory of what God did for the children of Israel.

The same Holy Days took on a new meaning and coincide on the exact days to something Jesus did for believers and the spring Holy Days should have been celebrated in remembrance of what Jesus did for believers. But, starting in the council of Nicea, a very anti-semitic statement was made telling the church to have nothing to do with the Jewish people, so that the Holy Days no longer went by their names and the dates were changed so people would no longer realize that they used to celebrate the same Holy Days but with a different meaning.

Therefore the Holy days were not null and void, until anti-semitism raised it's ugly head. By the way, scripture is very very clear that the people were celebrating the Holy Days in remembrance of Jesus, but a lack of knowledge of the Holy days means that many Christians do not realize what is so clear in scripture. For example, Pentacost is named that for the 50 days, but how many Christians realize that the OT says to count for 7 weeks of Sabbaths from the first fruit wave offering, and on the next day is Shavuot. That is where the 50 days comes from (7 weeks is 49 + 1 = 50)  and anyone familiar with the Holy days in the Mosaic covenant knows where the 50 days comes from, and why. And also how Shavuot now should be celebrated in remembrance of Jesus.

[SINNERSAVED]

On ‎3‎/‎30‎/‎2016 at 11:32 PM, Ezra said:

Scripture tells us plainly that commanding to abstain from meats is indeed a doctrine of demons, and that is exactly what you are promoting.  The Catholic Church commands celibacy, which is also a doctrine of demons (1 Tim 4:1-6). They sincerely believe that they are right, just as you do.

And the rest of your rant is meaningless, since you have not shown from the New Testament that Torah observance applies to Christians today.  Indeed, without the Temple, there can be no true Torah observance -- it is purely a sham.  That is why Judaism is a sham. And without the Temple veil, there can be no true Temple!  That veil was torn over 2,000 years ago to teach you that Torah observance is finished. But you have ignored that lesson from God, and Scripture says you are tempting God: Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? (Acts 15:10).

Quoting how Paul continued with certain Jewish practices is quite misleading, because later on Paul taught the doctrine of the Church (Jew and Gentile without distinction in one Body) and he also turned away from the Jews.  Then the church at Jerusalem -- under the guidance of the Holy Spirit -- clarified that only four laws of Moses would apply to Christians, and two of those were already given to Noah long ago. Please note very carefully the limits of the Law of Moses for the Church: For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;  That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well. (Acts 15:28,29).

And the rest of your rant is meaningless, since you have not shown from the New Testament that Torah observance applies to Christians today

 here Ezra , the above is your statement , and I was right when I said, you have tossed out the law, entirely , and the torah, so that means we do not even follow the guidance of the ten commandments which guides us to understand what Sin is ?

 by your own words you do not believe in anything of the laws and the prophets, ? or of the old testament , for you say  that the new testament , have remove the old, and there fore is not valid ? even though  ?? , you refuse to understand what Jesus stated ?

by I have not come to abolish the LAW or the Prophets, and so this is what you are teaching ?

Jesus tells us  in matthew, He speaks as was spoken of  by the prophet Daniel , when you see the abomination of Desolation, ? and spoke as in the days of Noah, so Jesus refers to the old testament teachings, clearly and open, and to , say it is not Valid, ?

 are you understanding what you are saying, for it is not you alone that are counted worthy to be saved by the holy spirit , but all that comes to the feet of the cross,  and all those that seek will find Him,

Now what was in the old stated also that the jew and the Gentile are all one , under one God and one nation, and you separate IT, AND SAY THEM OVER THERE , AND US OVER HERE , THE CHURCH AND THE PEOPLE THE JEWS, THEM AND US, AND THE TRIBULATION SAINTS , AND NOT THE CHURCH SAINTS, ???

brother, you are not speaking the truth , and for the new testament also says that there is no different from the alien and the jew, the church and the people of Old , we are one people under the same God , that all needs to come to the forgiving grace and cross, of Jesus and thank God for all that He has done,  and all that he provides,

blessings and peace, 

[Paradigm]

19 hours ago, Ezra said:

Not according to what is revealed.  Israel was given the holy days under the Old Covenant.  They are null and void under the New Covenant and during the Church Age.  If they were valid for the Church, that would have been clearly spelled out in Acts and the New Testament.  

There may be a revival of these during the Millennium, but that will be in connection with redeemed and restored Israel, when an actual Millennial Temple is brought into existence.  Since there is no Temple on earth, everything pertaining to the Old Covenant has been set aside.  Study Hebrews.

Ezra, I showed from scripture that the Almighty said that "These are my feasts." (Lev 23) He is the one that invented them, not the Jews.

I quoted a plethora of passages using words such as forever and everlasting regarding the feasts. Are all of those verses untrue? 

I have also shown references to Paul keeping feasts in the NT and making the statement "Therefore let us keep the feast." (1 Cor 5) I have shown him and others keeping the Sabbath and attending Synagogue. (All through Acts by the way)

I have also shown the New Moons, Sabbath and Feasts in the future. Does it make any sense that the Most High said to do these things forever many times, then abolish them so that they should not be kept and then bring them back and demand that people keep them in the future? (Is 66, Zec 14)

I have listed many scriptures that make it clear that many of these things are forever. As I have said, I have shown also these things in the NT as well. Yet I don't recall you citing much scripture to establish your points. 

[Qnts2]

On 3/30/2016 at 5:50 PM, Paradigm said:

First of all we must understand that these are really not the "Jewish holy days." These are the appointed times of the Creator as it is written:

Leviticus 23:1-2  And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, ² Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the Lord, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.

Exodus 12:14  And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the Lord throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.

Exodus 12:17   And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall ye observe this day in your generations by an ordinance for ever.

Exodus 12:24 And ye shall observe this thing for an ordinance to thee and to thy sons for ever.

Exodus 12:48-49  And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. ⁴⁹ One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

Leviticus 16:29 And this shall be a statute for ever unto you: that in the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, ye shall afflict your souls, and do no work at all, whether it be one of your own country, or a stranger that sojourneth among you:

Numbers 15:16  One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.

³¹ It shall be a sabbath of rest unto you, and ye shall afflict your souls, by a statute for ever.

³⁴ And this shall be an everlasting statute unto you, to make an atonement for the children of Israel for all their sins once a year. And he did as the Lord commanded Moses.

 

Exodus 31:14-17  Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. ¹⁵ Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. ¹⁶ Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.¹⁷ It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

Leviticus 23:21  And ye shall proclaim on the selfsame day, that it may be an holy convocation unto you: ye shall do no servile work therein: it shall be a statute for ever in all your dwellings throughout your generations.

Leviticus 23:31  Ye shall do no manner of work: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.

Leviticus 23:41  And ye shall keep it a feast unto the Lord seven days in the year. It shall be a statute for ever in your generations: ye shall celebrate it in the seventh month.

Isaiah 56:2-6  Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil. ³ Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the Lord, speak, saying, The Lord hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.⁴ For thus saith the Lord unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;⁵ Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.⁶ Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.²³ And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.²⁴ And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Zechariah 14:16-19 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.¹⁷ And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.¹⁸ And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen (Nations) that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.¹⁹ This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Hebrews 4:2-8

² For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. ³ For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.⁴ For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

⁵ And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.⁶ Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:⁷ Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

⁸ For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.⁹ There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

¹⁰ For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

¹¹ Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

 

The feasts are feast given by God, but I'll re-quote the first verse:

Leviticus 23:1-2  And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, ² Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the Lord, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.

God told Moses to speak to the children of Israel. God was not speaking to the Church which is made up of mainly Gentiles. God was speaking to the Jewish people, so God was giving the feasts to Israel (Jews).

The feast which were in the Mosaic law were given to Israel so that the Jewish people would remember what God did for them. Passover in the Mosaic law is to remember when God led the Jewish people out of the house of bondage (Egypt).

Shavuot was given to the Jewish people to celebrate the first fruits ingathering (wheat harvest) and when God gave the Mosaic covenant.

These feasts were given to the Jewish people by God and God says they were given as a Holy day forever. In scriptures, it is important to know who is being addressed. In the Mosaic law are commands for the Levitical priesthood. It is a violation of the Mosaic law for any Jewish person who is not a Levite to do the laws directed to the Priests. The Mosaic law from God gives some of the commands to women. The Mosaic law from God gives some commands to married people. 

So, your argument is invalid because you are using scriptures where God is giving feasts to the Jewish people.  

[Guest]

On ‎3‎/‎30‎/‎2016 at 9:49 AM, OldSchool2 said:

So was gift-giving during Sol Invictus. Now it too is a Christian tradition as well despite the fact that Christmas celebrations in New England were once illegal.

"On their first Christmas in the New World, the Pilgrims at Plymouth Colony celebrated the holiday not at all. Instead they worked in the fields...

"The Puritans in the Massachusetts Bay Colony went one step further and actually outlawed the celebration of Christmas. From 1659 to 1681, anyone caught celebrating Christmas in the colony would be fined five shillings.

"Well into the 18th century, those who attempted to keep the tradition of wassailing alive in New England often found themselves arrested and fined. Indeed, the Puritan War on Christmas lasted up to 1870, when Christmas became a legally recognized federal holiday. Until then, men and women were expected to go to work, stores were expected to remain open, and many churches did not even hold religious services...."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/15/opinion/the-puritan-war-on-christmas.html?_r=0

Wow I did not know this. I am thankful to be able to celebrate the death burial and resurrection of Christ Jesus, as well as his birth freely!

[Paradigm]

27 minutes ago, Qnts2 said:

The feasts are feast given by God, but I'll re-quote the first verse:

Leviticus 23:1-2  And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, ² Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the Lord, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.

God told Moses to speak to the children of Israel. God was not speaking to the Church which is made up of mainly Gentiles. God was speaking to the Jewish people, so God was giving the feasts to Israel (Jews).

The feast which were in the Mosaic law were given to Israel so that the Jewish people would remember what God did for them. Passover in the Mosaic law is to remember when God led the Jewish people out of the house of bondage (Egypt).

Shavuot was given to the Jewish people to celebrate the first fruits ingathering (wheat harvest) and when God gave the Mosaic covenant.

These feasts were given to the Jewish people by God and God says they were given as a Holy day forever. In scriptures, it is important to know who is being addressed. In the Mosaic law are commands for the Levitical priesthood. It is a violation of the Mosaic law for any Jewish person who is not a Levite to do the laws directed to the Priests. The Mosaic law from God gives some of the commands to women. The Mosaic law from God gives some commands to married people. 

So, your argument is invalid because you are using scriptures where God is giving feasts to the Jewish people.  

Yes, the feasts which are God's were given to Israel. However, if you will notice in several passages it mentions both "home born and the stranger among you." You may have not seen the other scriptures that I quoted that refers to "all nations" keeping the Feast of Tabernacles or "all flesh" keeping the new moons and the Sabbath. You might want to also look at the Hebrews passage that I quoted above regarding the Sabbath as well as Isaiah that mentions the "stranger."

So yes the promises and covenants were to Israel. There has not been a covenant made specifically with the Gentiles. However Gentiles can be part of these things and are invited to be grafted in. (Rom 11)

Ephesians 2:11-13  Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;¹² That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:¹³ But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Even the brit chadesha (renewed covenant) was made with the House of Israel and the House of Judah. 

Hebrews 8:8  For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

What is this covenant?

⁹ Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

¹⁰ For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

¹¹ And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

So we see that the new covenant was made with Israel and Judah. A big aspect of this covenant is that now the Torot (laws) are written within as well. 

We see also this from Ezekiel:

Ezekiel 36:24-27 ²⁴ For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. ²⁵ Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.²⁶ A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.²⁷ And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

This covenant with Israel creates a renewed heart so that they will keep the "chukim" statutes and "mishpatim "judgements."

We must also understand that the concept that most have of the word "church" is not in line with scripture. The English word "church" in the NT is "ecclessia." This corresponds directly to the Hebrew word "kahal" that is found throughout the Tanakh (OT). We do even see in the English the "church" at Mount Sinai. 

 

Acts 7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sinai, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

That being said, even in the first century, most of the early followers of Y'shua were Jews and others from the tribes. The leadership positions were Jewish for a while and then as far as I know there was never another Jewish Bishop or other leaders. Especially once things were moved to Rome which didn't take long. After this, it was predominantly a Gentile populace and began to look very different quickly. 

It is also important to understand that the term "Jew" did not develop until much later. It was not the "Jews" who came out of Egypt, but Israel which included "Judah." Later the kingdom of Israel (10 northern tribes) split from the kingdom of Judah. Within the kingdom of Judah was mainly Judah, Benjamin and some Levites. 

All of the tribes, especially the 10 northern ones were scattered throughout the earth. Though many have lost their identity, those who put their trust in YHVH will be gathered one by one. 

[Qnts2]

6 minutes ago, Paradigm said:

Yes, the feasts which are God's were given to Israel. However, if you will notice in several passages it mentions both "home born and the stranger among you." You may have not seen the other scriptures that I quoted that refers to "all nations" keeping the Feast of Tabernacles or "all flesh" keeping the new moons and the Sabbath. You might want to also look at the Hebrews passage that I quoted above regarding the Sabbath as well as Isaiah that mentions the "stranger."

So yes the promises and covenants were to Israel. There has not been a covenant made specifically with the Gentiles. However Gentiles can be part of these things and are invited to be grafted in. (Rom 11)

Ephesians 2:11-13  Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;¹² That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:¹³ But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Even the brit chadesha (renewed covenant) was made with the House of Israel and the House of Judah. 

Hebrews 8:8  For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

What is this covenant?

⁹ Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

¹⁰ For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

¹¹ And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

So we see that the new covenant was made with Israel and Judah. A big aspect of this covenant is that now the Torot (laws) are written within as well. 

We see also this from Ezekiel:

Ezekiel 36:24-27 ²⁴ For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. ²⁵ Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.²⁶ A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.²⁷ And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

This covenant with Israel creates a renewed heart so that they will keep the "chukim" statutes and "mishpatim "judgements."

We must also understand that the concept that most have of the word "church" is not in line with scripture. The English word "church" in the NT is "ecclessia." This corresponds directly to the Hebrew word "kahal" that is found throughout the Tanakh (OT). We do even see in the English the "church" at Mount Sinai. 

 

Acts 7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sinai, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

That being said, even in the first century, most of the early followers of Y'shua were Jews and others from the tribes. The leadership positions were Jewish for a while and then as far as I know there was never another Jewish Bishop or other leaders. Especially once things were moved to Rome which didn't take long. After this, it was predominantly a Gentile populace and began to look very different quickly. 

It is also important to understand that the term "Jew" did not develop until much later. It was not the "Jews" who came out of Egypt, but Israel which included "Judah." Later the kingdom of Israel (10 northern tribes) split from the kingdom of Judah. Within the kingdom of Judah was mainly Judah, Benjamin and some Levites. 

All of the tribes, especially the 10 northern ones were scattered throughout the earth. Though many have lost their identity, those who put their trust in YHVH will be gathered one by one. 

I saw those.

Please define 'strangers'.

It was the Jews who came out of Egypt. You make a mistake on the definition of Jew. When the southern Kingdom was taken captive in Babylon, there were members of all 12 tribes living in the southern kingdom, called Judea. The Babylonians called all 12 tribes 'Jews' or Judeans. While the southern Kingdom was named after the largest tribe which was Judah, it was not just the sons of Judah who lived in Judea. Therefore, Jews referred to all 12 tribes. The term Jews from that time on was taken by the children of Israel as another way to refer to all 12 tribes. It is used in the NT to refer to all 12 tribes as clearly Paul called himself Jew even though he was not a member of the tribe of Judah. 

When you talk about those in the Northern Kingdom losing their identity, that is wrong. Most retained their identity. Do you believe in Two House theology?

 

[Paradigm]

2 minutes ago, Qnts2 said:

I saw those.

Please define 'strangers'.

Ex 12:48-49  And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. 49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

 

OT:1616 ger (gare); or (fully) geyr (gare); from OT:1481; properly, a guest; by implication, a foreigner: KJV - alien, sojourner, stranger.

OT:1481 guwr (goor); a primitive root; properly, to turn aside from the road (for a lodging or any other purpose), i.e. sojourn (as a guest); also to shrink, fear (as in a strange place); also to gather for hostility (as afraid): KJV - abide, assemble, be afraid, dwell, fear, gather (together), inhabitant, remain, sojourn, stand in awe, (be) stranger, surely.

Ephesians 2:11-13  Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;¹² That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:¹³ But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Romans 11:13-25 ¹³ For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:¹⁴ If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.¹⁵ For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?¹⁶ For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

¹⁷ And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;¹⁸ Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.¹⁹ Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.

²⁰ Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:²¹ For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.²² Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

²³ And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.²⁴ For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

²⁵ For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Verse 25 is a reference to Genesis 49. 

 

[Qnts2]

11 minutes ago, Paradigm said:

Ex 12:48-49  And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. 49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

 

OT:1616 ger (gare); or (fully) geyr (gare); from OT:1481; properly, a guest; by implication, a foreigner: KJV - alien, sojourner, stranger.

OT:1481 guwr (goor); a primitive root; properly, to turn aside from the road (for a lodging or any other purpose), i.e. sojourn (as a guest); also to shrink, fear (as in a strange place); also to gather for hostility (as afraid): KJV - abide, assemble, be afraid, dwell, fear, gather (together), inhabitant, remain, sojourn, stand in awe, (be) stranger, surely.

Ephesians 2:11-13  Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;¹² That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:¹³ But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Romans 11:13-25 ¹³ For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:¹⁴ If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.¹⁵ For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?¹⁶ For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

¹⁷ And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;¹⁸ Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.¹⁹ Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.

²⁰ Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:²¹ For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.²² Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

²³ And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.²⁴ For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

²⁵ For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Verse 25 is a reference to Genesis 49. 

 

You quoted scripture but did not define the term translated as stranger so I will.

The children of Israel were called strangers when they lived in the land of Egypt. They were strangers because they were living in a land which was not theirs. So, strangers who lived in the land of Israel were people who were not Israel, as they were living in a land which was not their land.

Those who were not children of Israel but lived in the land of Israel were obligated to keep a subset of the laws of the children of Israel. That is like any land. Those who are of a different group who live in a land belonging to someone else are subject to a subset of the laws of the land but not all of the laws of the land. In the U.S., non-citizens must keep a subset of the laws but do not have the right to vote.

So, a stranger in the Mosaic law,  is a non-Jew who lives in the land of Israel. Any subset law given to strangers in the Mosaic covenant, does not apply to non-Jews who live outside of Israel. 

 

[Paradigm]

11 minutes ago, Qnts2 said:

You quoted scripture but did not define the term translated as stranger so I will.

The children of Israel were called strangers when they lived in the land of Egypt. They were strangers because they were living in a land which was not theirs. So, strangers who lived in the land of Israel were people who were not Israel, as they were living in a land which was not their land.

Those who were not children of Israel but lived in the land of Israel were obligated to keep a subset of the laws of the children of Israel. That is like any land. Those who are of a different group who live in a land belonging to someone else are subject to a subset of the laws of the land but not all of the laws of the land. In the U.S., non-citizens must keep a subset of the laws but do not have the right to vote.

So, a stranger in the Mosaic law,  is a non-Jew who lives in the land of Israel. Any subset law given to strangers in the Mosaic covenant, does not apply to non-Jews who live outside of Israel. 

 

This is beginning to seem pointless. The very first thing in my post was the definition for stranger. I provided the Strong's Definition of the word translated as "stranger as well as its root." Is that definition not sufficient? 

Also, I did not say that only Judah dwelt in the Southern kingdom. I said it was mainly Judah, Benjamin and Levi. It seems like most of what you respond to me with are things that I did not say. If you have carefully read through my posts, you will see that I have provided multiple scriptures from both OT and NT pertaining to these topics.  

The House of Israel (the Ten Northern tribes) were taken into Assyria a long time before the southern kingdom Judah was taken to Babylon. Some of those who were taken to Babylon, but many did not. Not many of the Ten northern tribes returned. 

1 Kings 11:31-34  And he said to Jeroboam, Take thee ten pieces: for thus saith the Lord, the God of Israel, Behold, I will rend the kingdom out of the hand of Solomon, and will give ten tribes to thee:³² (But he shall have one tribe for my servant David's sake, and for Jerusalem's sake, the city which I have chosen out of all the tribes of Israel:)³³ Because that they have forsaken me, and have worshipped Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, Chemosh the god of the Moabites, and Milcom the god of the children of Ammon, and have not walked in my ways, to do that which is right in mine eyes, and to keep my statutes and my judgments, as did David his father.³⁴ Howbeit I will not take the whole kingdom out of his hand: but I will make him prince all the days of his life for David my servant's sake, whom I chose, because he kept my commandments and my statutes:³⁵ But I will take the kingdom out of his son's hand, and will give it unto thee, even ten tribes.

Ezekiel 37:10-12  So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.¹¹ Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.¹² Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

Ezekiel 37:19-23 ¹⁹ Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.²⁰ And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.²¹ And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:²² And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.²³ Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.

Jeremiah 16:14-16  Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that it shall no more be said, The Lord liveth, that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;¹⁵ But, The Lord liveth, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers.¹⁶ Behold, I will send for many fishers, saith the Lord, and they shall fish them; and after will I send for many hunters, and they shall hunt them from every mountain, and from every hill, and out of the holes of the rocks.

Jeremiah 23:6-7  In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, The Lord Our Righteousness.⁷ Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that they shall no more say, The Lord liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;⁸ But, The Lord liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.

Isaiah 27:12-13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall beat off from the channel of the river unto the stream of Egypt, and ye shall be gathered one by one, O ye children of Israel.¹³ And it shall come to pass in that day, that the great trumpet shall be blown, and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, and shall worship the Lord in the holy mount at Jerusalem.  

 

Jeremiah 31:10 Hear the word of the Lord, O ye nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock.

 

Jeremiah 50:17 Israel is a scattered sheep; the lions have driven him away: first the king of Assyria hath devoured him; and last this Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon hath broken his bones.

 

2 Chronicles 18:16 Then he said, I did see all Israel scattered upon the mountains, as sheep that have no shepherd: and the Lord said, These have no master; let them return therefore every man to his house in peace. 

Matthew 9:36 But when he saw the multitudes, he was moved with compassion on them, because they fainted, and were scattered abroad, as sheep having no shepherd.

Ezekiel 11:17 Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord God; I will even gather you from the people, and assemble you out of the countries where ye have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel.

 

Ezekiel 28:25 Thus saith the Lord God; When I shall have gathered the house of Israel from the people among whom they are scattered, and shall be sanctified in them in the sight of the heathen, then shall they dwell in their land that I have given to my servant Jacob.

Joel 3:2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.

Zechariah 1:19 And I said unto the angel that talked with me, What be these? And he answered me, These are the horns which have scattered Judah, Israel, and Jerusalem.

John 11:52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

 

James 1:1  James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.