No One Knows about that Day or Hour

[Marilyn C]

Hi Montana Marv,

I must have missed that scripture concerning the last person makes the Body of Christ complete. You said -

`Now if this is the case, who knows when the

last piece (person) of the Body of Christ makes the Body...... complete.`

However I do know that God`s word tells me that the Body of Christ will be mature (complete) when -

`...we all come to the unity of faith, & of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.``(Eph. 4: 13)

Note this unity is NOT outward but a work of the Holy Spirit in each believer`s heart to know the purposes of God through Christ. We are, I believe in the final stages of the Holy Spirit bringing this clarification of truth across the Body, especially in the eschatology area.

Marilyn.

 

 

[Montana Marv]

 

 

Marilyn

I did not say mature. I said complete. When the Bride has its full number of members, the last person makes the Body complete. Then the Rapture

In Christ

Montana Marv

[MorningGlory]

 

ya got your boogy on Huh Kid  

[Omegaman 3.0]

On 4/9/2016 at 6:47 AM, Montana Marv said:

Omegaman

If you are correct in what you say:  "What happens Immediately after the distress of those days: (Matt 24:29).  Now I have you between a rock and a hard place.  If you say the 2nd Coming, you lose the argument of the meaning of "Only God the Father Knows".  Because now you have a known period of distress (a red flag) before the 2nd Coming.  If you say the Rapture, you lose your argument, because now you have pinpointed a time that "Only God the Father Knows" and you have tied the two together.

Now if you say that v.30 "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn.  They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds.....".  If you tie this to the Rapture; then "Only God the Father Knowing" should not even be in the Scriptures.  One cannot have it both ways.

 I know this is a double take, but see the word event:  So "Only God the Father Knowing" cannot be tied to anything before v.35.  For they are all known and timed events with red flags before them.  So "Only God the Father Knowing" must be tied to an event not discussed in 1-35.  So it must be tied to the Rapture.  A hiatus so to speak during the Discourse.  So the Rapture should have between v.10 - At that time many will turn away from the faith (present time and an event of unknown duration) to and including the Second Coming which are known events.  Yet I choose a time which cannot be calculated.  And many of you choose a time which is calculated by prior events.

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

I think we have been through this before, but for the sake of others reading, I will respond, without trying to unravel what ever it is that you think you have me between a rock and a hard place. Again, you are ignoring both language and context.

No one know the day or the hour.

Context - said about 2000 years ago

Language structure - a statement in the present tense, so, it actually says, it you parse it

No one at this moment (2000 years ago) knows the day nor the hour, except the Father. You have to choose between granting that, or being dishonest, but the choice is yours to make.

Implicit in that, it does not say, "No one will ever know". If it meant that, then it is necessarily, your position, that Jesus remains ignorant about this, and is therefore, lacking a quality of deity, omniscience. Since I am not omniscient myself, I cannot say with certainty, but I am going to guess that Jesus now know the  day and the hour. If that is true, well, you figure that out.

Language particulars - day or hour, short, precise units of time, says nothing of whether or not He knew or would know, the month, the year, the  century, the season, the epoch,the millennium, OR the sequence of the events. Then again, while I find that pre-trib believers like to claim to take the Bible literally, it seems that it is only true as long as it does not contradict what they have decided the Lord must do, to be true to their reasoning and theories.

Now, as to what I think the thing is than Jesus did not know the day or the hour of . . . 

it is not exactly mysterious:

 32 “Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near; 33 so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. 34 “Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. 35 “Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.

      36“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. 37“For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. 38“For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40“Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. 

Verses 32-35 there say in essense, that I have just given you a whole bunch of signs, so that you will know that is is about to happen, nor be standing around saying "gee, even Jesus doesn't know."

Then to the meat of what day or hour is unknown, in case we missed it He says:

FOR the coming of the Son of Man

so the unknown day or hour is His coming, at least that is what the text appears to me to be saying:

For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. 38“For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. 

So, no one 2000 years ago, knew at what day or hour, the coming of the Son of Man would be, when it will be just like the days of Noah, when the Son is going to come and catch the unrighteous off guard, and take them to their destruction.

It is not exactly vague, and I am sorry that I do not see where you have got me between some rock and hard place. By the way, I do not "lose the argument", I am not even having an argument, just looking at, and pointing our, what the scriptures says, it it's context, and in a way, where words actually mean something. Until next time - 

blessings!

[Montana Marv]

Omegaman

So with all that said, It is your opinion that Matt 24:36 - 25:13 is not talking about the Rapture.  Is that what you are implying.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Omegaman 3.0]

12 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

Omegaman

So with all that said, It is your opinion that Matt 24:36 - 25:13 is not talking about the Rapture.  Is that what you are implying.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Well, what I am implying, is that I think that Matt 24 does have the rapture, at verse 31, but it is hardly an expansive description. However, that is just my opinion, and I reserve the right to be corrected, should I suddenly find myself hurtling skyward before Daniel's 70th week begins. Matt 25:1-13 begins with "at that time", which I assume is looking backward to Matt 24, which is primarily speaking to Jesus next coming, his appearance, His revelation, that He said is after the Tribulation. So, if that part of Matt 25 is describing the Rapture, then it is likely describing a post tribulation rapture. Since Matt 25:13 says "Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour", that "Therefore" also seemingly looks back to what He was saying in Matt 24, mostly talking about His coming, His parousia, His arrival, His coming to be with us. So, I think the unknown day or hour of Matt 25:13 is the same one in Matt 24, that unknown day or hour is His coming.

I do not suspect that I have convinced you of anything, but I hope at least, that I have made my position relatively clear, and i appreciate you allowing me to do so.

[Ezra]

20 minutes ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

I reserve the right to be corrected, should I suddenly find myself hurtling skyward before Daniel's 70th week begins.

Of course you will be excused while you hurtle skywards.

[Omegaman 3.0]

10 minutes ago, Ezra said:

Of course you will be excused while you hurtle skywards.

 

Why thank you, that is very gracious of you!

[Montana Marv]

11 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

Since Matt 25:13 says "Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour", that "Therefore" also seemingly looks back to what He was saying in Matt 24, mostly talking about His coming, His parousia, His arrival, His coming to be with us. So, I think the unknown day or hour of Matt 25:13 is the same one in Matt 24, that unknown day or hour is His coming.

Omgeaman

This is where we differ.

For we all know that His 2nd Coming is "shortly after the distress of those days".  Which is preceded by "when you see standing".  And this likely a 3 1/2 year period per (Rev 12:14).  So who is God protecting, Israel   First but not least is that we must go to be with Him, because we know the way to where He is. John 14.  Now my point is the the Rapture can happen at any point along the Discourse of Matt 24.  Not just at the end.  For Jesus says that we will go to the Fathers House, because Jesus is there.  You have narrowed the window, My window is wide open.

Thanks

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

[Davidjayjordan]

Mary, allow me to disagree completely with you.

 

The basic principle is Jesus is God, and as God Jesus knew all things and knew all science and all facts, and all everything. He was not subservient to God and below the level of the Father, but I repeat was God. This in my opinion what a Christian believes and knows. Religious people in most cases believe Jesus was below the level of God the Father, Christians know the Lord, and know HE IS GOD and is the GREAT I AM

 

Jesus knew the time of his death, and knew its timing, and knew who would betray him, and how much suffering HE would have to go through. Jesus knew all his former prophets who prophesied the exact dates of all major events exactly. Jesus knew their agreement as He spoke to them through His Spirit. All agree and all were exact.

The exact scenario of events of the end times is written over and over and over again through out the prophets, there is no mystery except to those that want to believe Jesus didn;t know or didn;t tell us.

 

Know the timing and know the exact events. Make a timeline, and start to pin point events and times exactly according to all the prophecieds of the Lord. Noah knew Jesus knew, and Jesus explained the basics and more and more and more. We are without excuse