Do WE know the POWER, of the Cross ?

[Willa]

The law is the schoolmaster that brings us to Christ, showing us our need of a Savior because we are unable to keep every dot and tittle of the whole law.  

We as Christians fulfill the law of love when we walk in the Spirit.  Thus. we fulfill the requirements of the law.  Gal 5:16-18 NKJV

 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

Gal 5:17  For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.

Gal 5:18  But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Romans 8 says walk in the Spirit and that we should fix our minds on the things of the Spirit.  

 

Yes 9 of the 10 requirements were repeated in the New Testament.  And the Sabbath rest is fulfilled when we cease from our own works as God did from His.  We rest in the completed work of Christ, who fulfilled the law perfectly and suffered on our behalf.  Righteousness is accounted to us when we have faith in His resurrection just as Abe had faith that God was able to resurrect his son Isaac.  Abe had faith that God would fulfill His promise to make his descendants a nation and would be a blessing to the gentiles.   He was justified by his faith as are we. 

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Gentlemen.

Have either of you considered looking up these verses in the Greek for the nuances of the words? The word "strength" is from "dunamis," which means "force," especially "miraculous force." And, when one looks up the various occurrences of the "law," "nomos," one will also read,

Matthew 5:17-18
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
KJV

Matthew 22:36-40
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
KJV

Romans 3:30-31
30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
KJV

Romans 5:13-21
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
KJV

Romans 7:4-17
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without (outside) the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without (outside) the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it (the law) is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
KJV

So, you are both technically right, but the Law itself is GOOD, revealing the bad in us when we sin and BREAK that Law!

Read 1 Corinthians 15:56 this way:

1 Corinthians 15:54-57
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting (Greek: kentron = a stinger) of death is sin; and the strength (Greek: dunamis = force, poison, venom) of sin is [in breaking] the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
KJV

[SINNERSAVED]

that was awesome post there Retrobyter,

this clears it up , and I see so many want to remove and do away with the law,  and then say it is no more and I am in judgment for we are under grace, and it covers the law and I continue to tell them as you have shown in scripture , that was awesome, and I really appreciate what you did , brother,

 blessings to you , and peace

shalom

[7Dove77]

Before the Cross,we lived by the law,

After the Cross, we live by Grace.,

 

Blessings,

7Dove77

[Davidjayjordan]

We only can know the power of the cross if we have forsaken our lifes totally and taken up our cross daily and dropped everything and followed HIM to the far ends of the world, or at least have done so in our hearts totally.

 

Years of doing this helps but is not necessary as an absolute newbie and new Christian can know the power of the cross MORE than part time old timers or sometimers.

 

We know the power by testing His power to fulfill His promises when we have forsaken all and just obeyed HIM.

[Your closest friendnt]

6 hours ago, SINNERSAVED said:

we have the god of the heavens  of Isaac ,Jacob and Abraham, and we have the holy spirit , and then we have Jesus or yeshua the son of the living God, and God himself,? we learn that the truth is the word , and we ask what is the word ? it is God !!

in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God, and so to follow God , is to follow the word, for He is the word , and God,

so if we follow God in our bibles , we then need to follow all of Gods word , and all that God has  said, and it is for us to grow and learn and to be instructed of , to live in today as they did yesterday , and to be of God and to foillow God , is to follow the words of God, and all of the words of God, is valid , and for us today , we cannot follow or say we follow God if we pick and choose what we will believe and what we wont, for God is God, and he cannot and would not , and did not take anything away , that is our law today , and by the law of God.

 Jesus yeshua , came to us in the flesh to full fill the law and the prophets ? he said He did not come to abolish or put away the law, for to fulfill is and was completed on the  CROSS, nailed there for all to see, and for we to believe and come to the feet of Jesus  yeshua, 

and so , the cross, is the completion and the finished work done to carry out the law and the prophets, and to bring in the gift of grace, and salvation to all that follows and are abiding in Him, for we are now crucified in Christ,  and yet, He lives,

 so now , we see that this was a life, given a divine God, of holiness and mans flesh to be the sacrifice, to save you and me and to bring us into the fellowship of God, and so , with that said, we cannot dismiss and word or law, if God has spoken it, and for nothing is put away , other then what could not be done , by the law, that moses first held, for  before moses , He was, and He is the authority , and no man , of tradition, or mans belief can remove anything that God has given , in word and in deed, and in spirit ,

 so be renewed in the spirit of our minds , put off the old man , and put on the new man , so do not be deceived to believe that any thing is voided out , and not valid, the scriptures and the word tells us, that nothing is put away , there is no condemnation to those that are in Christ Jesus , but we must understand the following of the word, and we will know, guided by the holy spirit , our eyes are open, to the love and compassion, and to see the beauty of the CROSS,,,,

 blessings to you all, and shalom

So much as I like to read your post, and it has become a good discipline to me to read them a few times over. 

Because I learn from you, because you made me to look up things in the bible and I started reading it again, wondering am I missing something, Am I reading the correct bible, are some pages missing from my bible.

So I got the same bible you have, and I am wondering if you still read the same bible as before or you have swicht to another one.

Sometimes I start thinking if you are still reading the bible, or you are just reading commentaries and BOOKS of people who claim that they have read the Bible for you.

[enoob57]

10 hours ago, Jayne said:

And then there is this:

Romans 10:1-5 "Brothers,my heart’s desire and prayer to God for them is that they may be saved. For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. For, being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. For Moses writes about the righteousness that is based on the law, that the person who does the commandments shall live by them"

 

Galatians 5:1-4 and 13-14 "Christ has liberated us into freedom. Therefore stand firm and don't submit again to a yoke of slavery. Take note! I, Paul, tell you that if you get circumcised, Christ will not benefit you at all. Again I testify to every man who gets circumcised that he is obligated to keep the entire law. You who are trying to be justified by the law are alienated from Christ; you have fallen from grace!..................... For you are called to freedom, brothers; only don't use this freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but serve one another through love. For the entire law is fulfilled in one statement: You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

Ephesians 2:13-15 "But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility."

So what did Jesus mean when He said that He didn't come to abolish the law? Does this contradict Paul who said that the law of commandments WAS abolished by Christ's death? No.

This essay explains quite simply what Jesus meant. 

http://www.gotquestions.org/abolish-fulfill-law.html

 

I wanted to capitalize upon your comment  
In total righteousness there 'IS' no need of law and it is where our Lord 'IS' taking us in the unbounded Being of Our
Father where we will have our being and worship The Son for His Work making it so we can be there...  Love, Steven

[SINNERSAVED]

7 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

So much as I like to read your post, and it has become a good discipline to me to read them a few times over. 

Because I learn from you, because you made me to look up things in the bible and I started reading it again, wondering am I missing something, Am I reading the correct bible, are some pages missing from my bible.

So I got the same bible you have, and I am wondering if you still read the same bible as before or you have swicht to another one.

Sometimes I start thinking if you are still reading the bible, or you are just reading commentaries and BOOKS of people who claim that they have read the Bible for you.

to answer your question  yourcloset friend,

I have several books, and I read all the time, in fact what I have that helps me out a lot is that I have a Kindle light, and so my KJV is on it and I take it every where,  and  its easy , and I can look things up in a second and find all that I need ,  but I love the feel of a big soft cover  Kjv large print ,  it is easier on the eyes ,for I am not as young as I was,

 but I do have a lot of bible reference books and dictionaries that came in handy, I also read other books, depending on the topic I am researching,  and so I have many books, and I just love to research and fined the true meaning of truth ,and what we believe, and why we believe it is very important to study , and to understand scripture, for scripture gives life and the  words on the pages come out and grab you, into the spirit of the word when you have meditated on, the understanding that Gods has inspired , when He is talking,

for God talks through us through scripture and passages , through the parables, and through  the men of old and the prophets  of the past, it is the laws ,and instructions, that we heed to , to know we are listening to him, for if at any time, we decide we are under grace and His words are not valid, then we deceive our selves, and lose out on the power and the sight of the narrow road, for Grace is given that we do not understand , but the law still remains, for it is Gods word and the word of God is the law,, and the law of God, is now written in our hearts, the truth is the law , and Gods law is the truth , and also the word , from God to us. you cannot separate this , no matter what any one says, or they will deceive you , for they deceive them selves to believe a lie,

for many read and yet do not understand the spirit and the devotion of the spirit , of with in the book , of the bible, for the spirit is not with in them and they are lost, looking for salvation in the scriptures to attain , but will not find it, for there hearts are not focused on God, they read it like a regular book, and come to, no, understanding ? but to know what they read is life , but they see it as words on paper, and cannot see what God has said , in glory .and in spirit ,

 and so reading the bible draws you to a closer relationship for the words of the bible is ,God telling you about himself ,and about you and where you are ,and need to be, for God says all the day long ?  I reach out my hands to a wicked, and rebellious people, and they do not know me, they know of me,? and read and talk about me, but there hearts   are not following me, it is desolate ?, and there is no life, but hollow words, to sooth the ears of those that are discerned, but yet, want to play the part of the harlot, and say they believe?

Gods love and power is in the word of God, for He is the word, and the Son of God sets us free,  and if this is happening, then we are free indeed, and this does not divide the word of God, into the old and the new  like the new and the old testament , but it joins it together, to be one word , of one God, and we are of one people and one nation, following every word of God, and all is needed to walk up rightly,

 for every word of God is inspired and given to us, to see and to know God is God, !! and we are not ? so that we cannot boast ?

 and so when we read we pray , and we meditate, on his word, for the law of the lord is Good, and it is not burdensome ,

as many make it ,out to be, for we are blessed and happy are we ,that take every word and the law, and the commandments and follow , until the ends of the earth , and so this also prepares the heart , and the soul , and places the right mind set,  that you are lead by a holy spirit, and God tells you , come to the road that only few will find,  and it is written, only a few find it !! the Warning ,

for the road is Narrow, and the way is hard, but at the beginning of the road is a gate, and that gate is Jesus or yehushua , He is the truth ,the life ,and the way ,............... to the narrow road ,

 blessing to you , and I would love to share with you , any time of the ;love of God , and the scriptures that save,and the spirit that dwells with in us the have received and become, part of you,  and  part me ,

shalom  and  peace brother

 

[SINNERSAVED]

3 hours ago, enoob57 said:

I wanted to capitalize upon your comment  
In total righteousness there 'IS' no need of law and it is where our Lord 'IS' taking us in the unbounded Being of Our
Father where we will have our being and worship The Son for His Work making it so we can be there...  Love, Steven

I am sorry , but I have to disagree with you  for you are completely  not understanding what you have said, for the full righteousness is to be and to follow the law,  every word is God breath , and if you think you can pick and choose, what you keep and what you don't, then its not correct, and that is a deception,

of the truth that was intended to be, for you and for me, as we walk according to the will of God, for in the beginning , there was the word, and the word is the law, and the law is the word of God, so you cannot take, it away , for why would you take it away ?

 what is there to gain by taking the law away ,and putting grace in its place when we still need the law,  as our guide and to know , what Sin really is, you have confused your self and others to believe a lie, this is what the devil Himself has put in the minds of those that understanding the precepts of the power of the word of God, you have made Gods word void, ? and taken the power of the holy spiritual  away ,

for you are taking what God has given and tossed it out, for what benefit, ? none, but to lead astray the people to believe that Grace has replaced the law, and this is what you do with it, but it is not what God shows us, it is  the law, the instruction, the Torah, of God that leads the people in obedience with God, and it is the grace, of God that covers what the law does not , the law, of ?

 SIN and death , Grace has taken it away , the sacrifices, Grace has taken it away , the priesthood, and ceremonies, Grace has taken it away

 but the law of God is the law of God, and it is the word, with out the word you would not know what Sin is , what death  is, and what spiritual life is, for Grace abounds were evil is and it abounds even more, but the word of God , the laws and the prophets, are not taken away , Jesus tells us with is own lips,, words of God telling you that I come not to abolish or destroy the law and the prophets, that would be like shooting your self in the foot, in stead of the target,

 we dont go around shooting our selves in the foot, but to follow the commandments and the laws , to be obedient to the calling through the word, we are called out to be followers of the word, and the law of God, not just Grace, for there is no power, if it is just Grace, and no fruit produced by you and me , and so this is where we get the labors  for the fields of the souls and the planting and growing  and the watering of the fields , through the word , and the hearing of the words, you are drawn to repentance, not Grace, for Grace is given when you have come to the knowledge and the wisdom of God, for instruction and for perfection, in the ways of the law,  for with out the law,

 yesterday and today you would ,and still would not know what is Sin, and the ways of God, it is written in your hearts, but  it comes from hearing, the words , and the words are the laws of God, period

 my people perish for their lack of wisdom ? God says this  and why ?

jesus said that, man does not live by bread alone ?, but by every single word of God, !!!!  do you know what every means, ?

 all the laws and the prophets, I do not abolish, so all of it, not some of it ?

 I have said this in correction, of the law and the ways of God, for it is from God, and not of us, and we ,cannot take away anything ,that God has established, and given to us for our learning , correction, and growth, and this is the truth ,

blessings and peace

[Retrobyter]

19 hours ago, 7Dove77 said:

Before the Cross,we lived by the law,

After the Cross, we live by Grace.,

 

Blessings,

7Dove77

Shalom, 7Dove77.

Before the Cross (an instrument of tormenting, capital punishment, btw), we TRIED to live by the Law.... and FAILED MISERABLY.

After the Cross, the ONLY ONE, YESHUA`, who ever LIVED by the Law and SUCCEEDED, and took our place, dying on our behalf as our sacrifice so that WE wouldn't have to pay the price for our sinful failure, made it possible for us to "live by Grace," that is, GOD'S Grace! His grace is His courteous goodwill to human beings on His Son's behalf. When one is "in Christ," although God has NOT CHANGED HIS MIND regarding His Law and sin against His Law, God has ALREADY POURED OUT HIS WRATH AGAINST SIN ON HIS SON WHEN HE WAS ON THAT CROSS!

So, should we continue in sin against God's Law? Wouldn't that be PRESUMPTUOUS and CRAZY?!

Romans 5:18-6:19
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
KJV

Consider Paul's words to the Corinthian church in 2 Corinthians 5:

First, consider what the words "reconcile," "reconciled, "reconciling," and "reconciliation" mean:

NT:2643 katallagee (kat-al-lag-ay'); from NT:2644; exchange (figuratively, adjustment), i.e. restoration to (the divine) favor:
KJV - atonement, reconciliation (-ing).

NT:2644 katallassoo (kat-al-las'-so); from NT:2596 and NT:236; to change mutually, i.e. (figuratively) to compound a difference:
KJV - reconcile.

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

So, I'm going to use the KJV, but I'm also going to substitute these meanings for the words used in the KJV:

2 Corinthians 5:14-21
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18 And all things are of God, who hath himself exchanged places with us by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of exchanging places;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, himself exchanging places with the world, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word (message) of exchanging places.
20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, exchange places with God.
21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
KJV

The Law does NOT go away. It's still there in the background! We just don't need to keep it to placate God's Wrath against sin.

ON THE OTHER HAND, why would we want to drive another nail into Yeshua`s hands or feet? Why would we want to add another thorn to the crown He wore? Why would we want to add to the stripes on His back? Why would we want to drive the spear into His side any deeper? It was FOR OUR SINS THAT HE DIED, ALL of our sins, past, present and future! So, any sins that we commit in the future were also added to His cross!

So, OUT OF LOVE FOR THE MESSIAH, YESHUA`, GOD'S SON, let's choose NOT to sin anymore!

Therefore, we need to know the Law so we can avoid sinning against it, not because we need to, but because we WANT to! Understand? It's NOT a "get out of Hell free" card!