How much nonsense should Christians tolerate?

[Ezra]

4 minutes ago, Teditis said:

Most of these bringers of "nonsense" will leave if nobody talks with them or debates their heretical ideas.

Good point.

[Guest]

On ‎4‎/‎16‎/‎2016 at 11:27 AM, Teditis said:

This is one of the frustrating realities of life on the internet... we mix with people from very diverse backgrounds.

What seems like disrespect might be a cultural difference and what seems like spreading falsehoods could simply

someone stating what they do believe whole-heartedly while being incorrect. Along with this, many will not willingly

place themselves in the place of a student to just another poster on the internet. Information isn't really shared on the

internet because everyone's "antennae" are up looking for people who don't know what they're talking about. And who can 

say which member holds truth and which member is mistaken or misguided? That takes time to get to know the other person

before we would willing accept their "opinion" as factual. and then take the time to truly listen to what the other person is

trying to share.

Worthy Christian Forums is not a school of higher learning and the members here (for the most part) are not trained teachers or

theologians. We get all types of people here who are all at different places on the spectrum of understanding God. Some are here

with the sole purpose of stirring up trouble. So all types of questions will be asked and all forms doctrines will be given as the

most likely to be truthful and faithful to God and His Word. It's only natural that many people-types will be here as well; some given

to vain thoughts about themselves and a poor view of others. People fancying themselves teachers when they've had no training

whatsoever. Other's thinking that they have some divine insights that others don't have

As has already been suggested, if you run into postings that you don't agree with just say your peace and get out of the thread. Show

Scripture that supports your position and leave it alone after that. Most of these bringers of "nonsense" will leave if nobody talks with

them or debates their heretical ideas.

You have touched upon some very solid points...except one, which I find problematic. To distort what others believe and teach is a problem which leads to much disharmony. In order to have discussion aiming at unity, we must not distort what "others" actually believe. Many times this is called a "straw man". How can people have a respectful dialogue when they could care less what the other is saying? I have found myself defending historic doctrine in an effort to rid discussions of disharmony due to false accusations, even though unintentional they may be.. Sometimes I wonder at hypocrisy as well due to this very thing...............

Even when I disagree with what is taught, to misunderstand or distort what another teaches does no one any good.

[HeartSearcher]

Something i noticed about online discussions is that often times people speak what is truly on their hearts they show what they really think and believe mainly because unlike being face to face with a person we are behind a screen and so feel safer express our deepest thoughts.

of course there is the fact that sense their is sound no audible tone it may hard for some to be able to detect the true nature of a persons words. But even so more often than not a persons true nature and intent even in a non audible post is often times hinted in the words they used how they used it and the clear meaning of their entire post and after speaking with a person for a while you gain an understanding of their pattern of behavior via posts, you recognize the majority of the kind of things they post about how they do it and why even if they try to hide it.

 

I know a man who has been hurt by the church by the pastors and their greed of money, he refuses to let go of his grudge and bitterness for their hurting him and classifies every pastor every person of position within the body of Christ and most if not all church as greedy self righteous pompous wolves in sheep clothing it's literally all he ever posts or talks about.

 

I have tried many many times to explain to him how this bitterness he refuses to let go is a poison to his faith how he says he preaches the gospel but all he is doing is venting his hurt. he does like not correction and becomes inflamed with anger at me he often times will receive the same kind of correction from many others and so he tries to post threads that seem to be about God and about the bible but always has the core of his grudge against the pastors and church. Even trying to hide it behind scriptures and supposed topic of the bible he cannot stop venting his grudge.

it is true that without sound it may be harder to know a persons true nature and intent but also sometimes online discussions is the best way to know a persons heart

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, HeartSearcher said:

Something i noticed about online discussions is that often times people speak what is truly on their hearts they show what they really think and believe mainly because unlike being face to face with a person we are behind a screen and so feel safer express our deepest thoughts.

of course there is the fact that sense their is sound no audible tone it may hard for some to be able to detect the true nature of a persons words. But even so more often than not a persons true nature and intent even in a non audible post is often times hinted in the words they used how they used it and the clear meaning of their entire post and after speaking with a person for a while you gain an understanding of their pattern of behavior via posts, you recognize the majority of the kind of things they post about how they do it and why even if they try to hide it.

 

I know a man who has been hurt by the church by the pastors and their greed of money, he refuses to let go of his grudge and bitterness for their hurting him and classifies every pastor every person of position within the body of Christ and most if not all church as greedy self righteous pompous wolves in sheep clothing it's literally all he ever posts or talks about.

 

I have tried many many times to explain to him how this bitterness he refuses to let go is a poison to his faith how he says he preaches the gospel but all he is doing is venting his hurt. he does like not correction and becomes inflamed with anger at me he often times will receive the same kind of correction from many others and so he tries to post threads that seem to be about God and about the bible but always has the core of his grudge against the pastors and church. Even trying to hide it behind scriptures and supposed topic of the bible he cannot stop venting his grudge.

it is true that without sound it may be harder to know a persons true nature and intent but also sometimes online discussions is the best way to know a persons heart

Some sites do have forums for these kinds of issues. Having such a forum allows others to minister to this in a less disruptive way I think. At least his "grudge" would be acknowledged by all parties, and not merely assumed. As the person with such grudge may not see themselves in that manner. 

[HeartSearcher]

4 minutes ago, Joline said:

Some sites do have forums for these kinds of issues. Having such a forum allows others to minister to this in a less disruptive way I think. At least his "grudge" would be acknowledged by all parties, and not merely assumed. As the person with such grudge may not see themselves in that manner. 

Sadly the only place this forum I speak to him on that he ever speaks on is the bible discussion forum which in that place is known as the war zone the blood field as is it more of a place where people love to go into heated debates rather than actually discuss the bible.

His grudge is acknowledge by everyone and many attempt to help him but he seems to be blind to the issue we are trying to help him with. in his own eyes he is unaware of how he is poisoning his faith and relationship with God and maybe he knows deep down what I speak of to him is true and perhaps that is why retaliates in such a angry form. many times it takes an outsiders view of ourselves to see things we ourselves are blind to

[Willa]

On April 15, 2016 at 3:05 PM, kwikphilly said:

Blessings Ezra......

     Great topic & one that truly needs to be addressed,,,,,,,,,the enemy is rampant & quite obvious,,,,,,,although our fight is not with flesh & blood it is also not really our fight at all,the Victory was won by Jesus over 2000 years ago,,,,,,,all we are required to do is stand firm on that Position of Victory & do as Jesus did,,,,,,,,He simply spoke with Authority & it was FINISHED,,,,,Jesus never entertained the enemy,,,,never!

     How much should we tolerate,,,,,,ZERO!!!! When the enemy pops out his ugly head we simply DO NOT ENGAGE,,,,,,,,,,won't the enemy tire of no one to talk to,no one to accuse,no one to twist their words,no one to argue with,,,,,,why would anyone want to throw the enemy a bone??????? It is RIDICULOUS!!!

      You are so accurate Brother,.& I expect all mature Christians to recognize quickly,chaos,divisive words,confusion & havoc EASILY,,,,,,,,,,,,,Yet,what I see is promoting conversation,,,,,,,,I know my Brothers i& Sisters intentions are good but the niavete is baffling,,,,,DONT TAKE THE BAIT!!!!! DONT KEEP THEM ON THE MAIN BOARD,find another more edifying discussion to replace with,,,,,,it will get very boring for the devil & his pawns,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,To God be the Glory        AND,pray for them!

                                                                               With love-in Christ,Kwik

My dearest Kwik,  It is so rare that I disagree with you.  Please consider how Jesus handled the temptations and twisting of Scriptures of Satan.  He answered with the truth of Scriptures quoted righteously.  I also remember in the Revelation that Satan was overcome by the Blood of Jesus and by our testimonies.  So I consider these "nonsense" attacks on God's Word to be fueled by the enemy.  Jesus never ignored Satan.  He confronted him with truth.

For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.  Eph 6:12 NKJV

Let your speech always be with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer each one, Col 4:6

2Co 10:3  For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh.  2Co 10:4  For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds,  2Co 10:5  casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ,

1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear;  1Pe 3:16  having a good conscience, that when they defame you as evildoers, those who revile your good conduct in Christ may be ashamed.

 

But we should never attack the person. Name calling, belittling and declaring those with whom we disagree to not be Christians are not appropriate here.  In fact they reveal immaturity.  We should always discuss ideas and scripture objectively but with gentleness.  And we need to pray for each other that we all be conformed to the likeness of Christ.

 

Blessings,

Willa

 

[kwikphilly]

Actually,Beloved Sister,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,you are NOT disagreeing with me,,,,,,,,perhaps you are not understanding me,,,,,,

Always speak Gods Truth,,,,,,,,& if you are not received,kick the dust off your feet

Jesus did not  promote conversation with the enemy ,He used the SWord of the Spirit,the Written Word,,,,& the devil left ,,,,for a time

When you speak Gods Truth,you respond lovingly & kindly and someone persists in being argumentative is the 'nonsense" I am speaking of ,,,,,,,,,,,,

Quote

But we should never attack the person. Name calling, belittling and declaring those with whom we disagree to not be Christians are not appropriate here.  In fact they reveal immaturity.  We should always discuss ideas and scripture objectively but with gentleness.  And we need to pray for each other that we all be conformed to the likeness of Christ.

 

You know me better than that ,,,,,,,would I ever attack anyone?When these things go on consistently with every encounter(same pewrsons over & over),,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,do not partake of it,walk away,pray for them           the end!                Love you Sis,Kwik

[Willa]

On April 16, 2016 at 6:54 PM, gdemoss said:

Our guidelines for tollerance ought to be taken from scripture.  And our authority ought to be seen in signs following that which we speak.

When Peter spoke Ananias and Saphira dropped dead.  When Jesus spoke the fig tree withered.  Paul was known for giving people over to Satan for the punishment of their flesh and in one place spoke saying that if he had to come a third time he wouldn't be spare.

When I speak out against homosexuals burning in their lust one for another in the authority of the scripture, I know that I need say no more because God said they would receive in themselves the recompense for their error which was meet.  I know it will happen if they do not repent but I also know that God is both long suffering and gracious not willing that any should perish so there is a time given for repentance while his Spirit pleads with them.

Learning to trust God to govern has been difficult for me but is working at a greater level in all aspects of my life than ever before.  Mine eyes have seen the glory of coming of the Lord and has seen him trampling the vinyards where the grapes of wrath are stored.

So I enourage my brothers to be concise in your words, reaffirming that which has already been declared by scripture and wait upon the Lord to deal with those who are reprobate concerning faith for he was very patient with me, allowing me to hurt a lot of people on my journey to Him as well as through my time of growing in Him.

We do need to be careful not to be Pharisees beating our chest but also not afraid to speak the truth into the lives of others with the hope of repentance rather than destruction.  For the scripture says that we are all worthy of death but God in his Grace has always made a way unto life.  

Tollerate ignorance and be apt to teach meekly with long suffering but warn those of their destruction who follow after evil.  Whether it be as Pharoah and a vessel of wrath or as a homosexual burning in their lust once the truth is spoken to them the clock begins to tick unto their repentance or destruction.  My hope is none will perish.

Amen and amen, Gary

[Omegaman 3.0]

This has been an interesting thread for me to read, from the position of being an administrator, to see how some of you see the problems you are addressing.

The problems are big, and although we like to think of this  forum as being Christian, and that Christians should have unity, love, soundness of minds and all other manners of thought and behaviors that at times seem absent, I think realistically, be cannot expect perfection.

People have mentioned the limitations of communication, when sound is absent. Of course if is not just tone and volume, it is facial expressions and body language, differences in customs, vocabulary varies from country to country, even state to state. We have a variety of experiences, a variety of political opinions, a variations in education and natural intelligence. Some have very clear, logical thinking, some do not have a great grasp of what constitutes logic. Our theologies vary, to some, this is because we have sat under different teachings. Some here, have never read the Bible, if I had to guess, I would bet that most have not read the Bible through. Others have read the Bible several times. Some have studied the Bible diligently for decades, others have not been believers even one year. Some, have evolved over time, and are still evolving, their doctrines and theology, some are not mature enough to be ready for meat, but still need milk. Some maturity is involved in matters of faith, others are about attitudes and behavior. Many here who call themselves Christians, probably are not, at least in terms of actual salvation, and the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit. We have people who are very young, and those who are growing quite old. We have racial differences and the baggage that sometimes goes along with that. Some have lead lives of privilege, others lives of poverty, neglect and abuse. Some of us have personality and mental disorders.

Add to all of this, and we also have spiritists, atheists, agnostics, gnostics, cultists, wiccans, and trollish people in all categories. The differences are more and larger than I have even indicated. With all of this is mind, I am shocked that we get along as well as we do.

We have different tolerances for what we, as individuals, find acceptable in words and behaviors. One person says something with the greatest sense of innocence and no mal intent. Another will read what this person says, and be deeply offended.

With these communication issues, differences, and other problems I may not even be thinking of, it is probably ridiculous to expect harmony due to all of these things and the limitations of our humanity, this side of eternity. If we all had my balance of intelligence and wit, humility and expertise, wisdom, tact and directness, knowledge and correctness, we could probably get along very well, but we do not.
:sarc:

So, it is easy to note and describe some of the problems, and to consider some of the contributing causes, it is another to prescribe solutions.

Some have pointed to the terms of service, and to the differences between strict legalism, and administrative discretion. Some have sought to place it in hands of the moderators / administrators. The issues are a source of frustration and disappointment. This is true for the most casual of the forum and chat users, through the various levels of administrative helpers all the way up to George, and if I may be so presumptuous, all the way to God Himself.

What we are talking about here, is primarily just normal, human problems. That is our biggest problem, our members and our staff, is comprised of normal humans. The more we operate in the natural, the more we shall be plagued by natural problems. We need to operate in the supernatural, and through prayer, call on the supernatural (God) to help us deal with these things. It starts with us as individuals. Any of us who have ever offered an opinion, with the attitude that only we are right, are part of the problem. If we have ever been unkind, or argumentative, we are part of the problem.

Each of us, can check ourselves, and before hitting that reply button and enter key, stop, take a breath, look at the content we just wrote and ask ourselves questions like:

Is this helpful?

Is this loving?

Is this glorifying to God?

Is this prideful?

Is this self-seeking?

Is this something that I should be pleased I wrote?

Is this something that I should just bite my tongue on?

If we can do something along these lines, then perhaps we can rightfully say that only others here, are part of this problem.

As for those of us on staff here, we are not perfect and are also part of the problem. We also are human. We cannot see all of the posts, cannot be aware of everything that goes on. Sometimes, we are aware of a problem,but do not know how to address it. We want to be graceful. tolerant, forgiving and understanding. We want to allow freedom of expression and thought. If that was all there was for us to do, we would no longer need to be involved in moderation. We could just be hands off, and allow everyone to type as they see fit.

Unfortunately, we are well aware that ugliness exists here, even with our efforts to curtail it. We are aware, that if we are more heavy handed, people will find fault with that. We know that if loosen up, people will find fault with that too. All we know to do is to try to do our best and not add to the problem. Moderation has not always been consistent. Each admin has their own personalities, some are more strict, some are more relaxed. Some work harder than others, or have more time to devote to this ministry.

The staff changes from time to time, and we are all learning was we go. I have been an admin here since 2004, and I am still learning. However, one reason also, that moderation is not consistent, is that the character of the chat and the forums is also not consistent. We deal with problems as they arise. New members sometimes change the balance here. Problem types, seem to come in  waves. We find that at times, we need to adapt to these changes, and so, our methods change somewhat in reaction to the current environment.

Favoritism, and cliques, apparent variation if tolerance and patience, is something that members here sometimes think they notice or detect. What most of you have no or little idea of, is how hard we try not to be uneven in how we deal with things. From our standpoint, we see some people think that they are targeted, persecuted, victims. Often, this is just a perception, as some people seem to see the world through eyes, that make them feel like a victim or a martyr. Other have thick skins and let things roll off them like water off the back of a duck, and don't complain.

What you do not see, is the number of times, that we have to strip the majority of posts out of a thread, or just hide it or delete it, because the majority of posts in some threads, have just become about personal attacks with no helpful content what-so-ever. Some of you probably think I am exaggerating, I assure you that I am not.

What we all are left with then, is a compromise result, of the efforts of the members and the efforts of the staff, to make this a place that is pleasant, edifying, safe, and useful. What you see then, is a combination of humans and our flaws. Some of us work hard to make this a better place, some not so much, and some seemingly, not at all.

I will try to do my part, try to seek what part God wants me to have, and I ask that you all do the same, and be patient and tolerant, with the failures, and yes, sometimes Christians (and other users of this site) might just have to tolerate some nonsense, or find something else to do. How much nonsense you tolerate, is between you and God, and and how much all of us contribute to the problems and the solutions.

[The_Patriot21]

Well said omega. I admit sometimes I am a bull in a China shop, especially when I get riled up, there has been many times where I have had to just leave a thread for that reason, and several times when I should have and didn't. We need to realize we are all human, all make mistakes, and grant others grace when they do, and ask for forgiveness when we do.