Interesting fact about Enoch's generations

[kwikphilly]

Scripture  about  Enoch is not directly referred to as "the Book of Enoch" even though Enoch is referred to in the Book of Jude,,,as a matter of fact I do not know of any phrase in the Bible that says"from the Book of Enoch",,,I think that is a great assumption by many as is the "law of rationality",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, if anyone can find a Scripture verse that says"from the Book of Enoch" I would be very surprised                                                                     Love,Kwik

[1to3]

Even if Jude cites a passage from this non-canonical book,

it does not mean he accepted the whole book as true, only this particular statement.

I think it is more likely Jude did not lift this statement from the non-Biblical book of Enoch,.

It was either something passed on orally or he received it as a direct revelation from God.

 

  Jude does not assert that these books are inspired Scripture –simply uninspired truth. Jude does not say that the entire book is true, but a part of the book is true. This would be similar to a modern day preacher citing a line from an atheistic scientist or philosopher. While the atheist’s book is not entirely true, it does contain true statements. Jude’s argument does not hang on these apocryphal passages; instead, we could back up everything that is written elsewhere in the OT.

Jude does not quote these books verbatim –but adapts these verses. We should note that Jude adapts these citations at certain points to correct them with the Bible’s teaching. He doesn’t quote them wholesale.

 most likely, Jude’s audience (or enemies) were citing these books. Jude probably chose these works, because his opponents were using them. In a sense, he is saying, “Even my opponents would agree with these statements about Satan’s power (v.9) and the judgment of God

 

“1 Enoch” (Jude 14-15)

Compare Jude with 1 Enoch:

(Jude 14-15a) It was also about these men that Enoch, in the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied, saying, “Behold, the Lord came with many thousands of His holy ones, ¹⁵ to execute judgment upon all.

(1 Enoch 1:9) Behold, [God] shall arrive with ten million of the holy ones in order to execute judgment upon all. He will destroy the wicked ones and censure all flesh on account of everything that they have done, that which the sinners and the wicked ones committed against him.

A few observations can be made:

First, Jude corrects the apocryphal text. Jude does not state that there are “ten million” holy ones coming with God –like 1 Enoch states. Instead, he writes that “many thousands” come with him. He probably took this from Deuteronomy 33:2, which states that God came with “ten thousand holy ones.” He corrects the portion of 1 Enoch that is not accurate in favor of the biblical text.

Second, Jude’s citation can be found in OT. Jude’s words about the coming judgment of God can be taken from canonical OT books. Everything that 1 Enoch states can be supported in canonical Scripture:

“For behold, the LORD will come in fire And His chariots like the whirlwind, To render His anger with fury, And His rebuke with flames of fire. ¹⁶ For the LORD will execute judgment by fire And by His sword on all flesh, And those slain by the LORD will be many” (Is. 66:15-16).

“Behold, the Lord GOD will come with might, With His arm ruling for Him. Behold, His reward is with Him And His recompense before Him” (Is. 40:10).

“You will flee by the valley of My mountains, for the valley of the mountains will reach to Azel; yes, you will flee just as you fled before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD, my God, will come, and all the holy ones with Him!” (Zech. 14:5).

“He may establish your hearts without blame in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all His saints” (1 Thess. 3:13).

“He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other” (Mt. 24:31).

third, Jude probably cites Enoch, because his enemies were using this book. If his enemies were citing 1 Enoch, Jude may be using their own book against them. This would be like a Christian apologist citing an atheistic author in a debate against an atheist. Instead of citing Scripture, Jude could be using their apocryphal book against them.

 

 

Jude also writes after he writes about Enoch,

Jude 1:17 But you beloved

remember the words which were spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ:

18 how they told you there would be mockers in the last times who would walk according to their own ungodly lusts

19 There are sensual persons, who cause divisions, not having the Spirit.

 

20 But you beloved, building yourselves up

on your most holy faith

praying in the Holy Spirit.

21 keep yourselves in the love of God

looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

22 And on some have compassion, making a  distinction,

23 but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garments defiled by the flesh,

 

24 Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling

And to present you faultless

Before the presence of His glory with exceeding jopy

25 To God our Savior

Who ALONE IS WISE

Be glory and majesty;

Dominion and power

Both now and forever,

Amen.

 

 

[other one]

you are putting down a many church fathers who quoted the book in many writings.....

just for the record I have not been pushing us to accept it as canon, just mostly true.

[kwikphilly]

Agreed other one,,,,,,,,,& just because it is not referred to as from "the Book of Enoch" in what has been canonized(as I stated earlier) also goes the other way too,does not mean that anyone who did refer to it was not Inspired by God....................

Holy Spirit discernment ,Revelation & Confirmations are essential,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,     With love-in Christ,kwik

[other one]

this doesn't have anything really to do with the OP though, the thread seems to be just referring to who was alive when others were alive and we have detoured off topic again......  shame on us.

[kwikphilly]

OOPS,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,duh,sorry Sister!                        Love,Kwik

[Jayne]

34 minutes ago, other one said:

you can't know that....  just like we can't know who wrote all the books of the Old Testament.....    but we do accept them.....   and Many of the early Church Fathers accepted the book of 1 Enoch as inspired.

Tertullian, Origen, Irenaeus, Athenagoras and Clement of Alexandria to name a few.....   So if these early Christian leaders accepted it, why should I put my trust in your thoughts over these?    And btw I am not supposing we add it to the Canon, but we do pay attention to what it says.....   as did these early Church leaders...   They taught from the knowledge of the book.

 

As for when God made the decision, there may be many things he told Enoch that he did not tell the rest of the worldly people until later.....  i would find it hard to believe that God didn't know what he was going to do when Enoch was walking the earth.

 

I might also add that we really don't know if they had writing before the flood or not.....   

Research the Books of Enoch for yourself.  Every scholar dates them somewhere before the birth of Christ.

Here are more contradictions from 1 Enoch.  Don’t take my word for it.  Read it again for yourself.  You said you have and found no contradictions.  Does it really matter is anyone in the early days of the church believed it …. If the book is wrong?!?

• 1 Enoch 2:3 says that there were seasons and that it rained.  The Bible says it did NOT rain until the Flood and that seasons did not appear afterwards.  If the Enoch born just a few hundred years after creation wrote this – what he saw was NO rain.  Why then did he say it did rain?   Either he was lying or the Bible is lying.

         Do you see now?

• 1 Enoch 9 has human beings praying to Michael, Gabriel, and three more angels to take their petitions to God.  Praying to angels and having angels as our mediator between us and God is unbiblical.

 

• 1 Enoch 10:1-2 says that the angel Uriel was sent to Noah to give him instructions about the Flood and the ark.  The Bible says that God spoke directly to Noah, himself.

 

• 1 Enoch 106 says that Enoch was on the earth when Noah was born and that Noah was very strange looking and Enoch’s son, Methuselah – Noah’s grandfather went to Enoch very worried about it and that Enoch told Methuselah about flood and that Noah and his sons would escape.  The Bible says Enoch was taken by God 69 years before Noah was born.

 

• 1 Enoch 32:3-6 has Enoch describing the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, which Adam and Eve ate from as the Tree of Wisdom.  He said that the angel Raphael was there and told him that this was the tree that Adam and Eve ate from and were banished from the Garden and knew they were naked.  “Enoch” says that people were still eating from the tree and gained much wisdom in the eating of it. The Bible says that what was gained from eating of that tree was that sin came into the world.  There was nothing inherently in the fruit that imparted any wisdom of any kind.

 

Either the Bible tells the truth about these things or the Book of Enoch does.

[kwikphilly]

Back on Topic,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,other one's link is fantastic ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,it is just fascinating & amazing to see who was still alive when others were born & grew up,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,all here at the same time,very cool stuff & done very well

[other one]

59 minutes ago, Jayne said:

Research the Books of Enoch for yourself.  Every scholar dates them somewhere before the birth of Christ.

Here are more contradictions from 1 Enoch.  Don’t take my word for it.  Read it again for yourself.  You said you have and found no contradictions.  Does it really matter is anyone in the early days of the church believed it …. If the book is wrong?!?

• 1 Enoch 2:3 says that there were seasons and that it rained.  The Bible says it did NOT rain until the Flood and that seasons did not appear afterwards.  If the Enoch born just a few hundred years after creation wrote this – what he saw was NO rain.  Why then did he say it did rain?   Either he was lying or the Bible is lying.

         Do you see now?

• 1 Enoch 9 has human beings praying to Michael, Gabriel, and three more angels to take their petitions to God.  Praying to angels and having angels as our mediator between us and God is unbiblical.

 

• 1 Enoch 10:1-2 says that the angel Uriel was sent to Noah to give him instructions about the Flood and the ark.  The Bible says that God spoke directly to Noah, himself.

 

• 1 Enoch 106 says that Enoch was on the earth when Noah was born and that Noah was very strange looking and Enoch’s son, Methuselah – Noah’s grandfather went to Enoch very worried about it and that Enoch told Methuselah about flood and that Noah and his sons would escape.  The Bible says Enoch was taken by God 69 years before Noah was born.

 

• 1 Enoch 32:3-6 has Enoch describing the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, which Adam and Eve ate from as the Tree of Wisdom.  He said that the angel Raphael was there and told him that this was the tree that Adam and Eve ate from and were banished from the Garden and knew they were naked.  “Enoch” says that people were still eating from the tree and gained much wisdom in the eating of it. The Bible says that what was gained from eating of that tree was that sin came into the world.  There was nothing inherently in the fruit that imparted any wisdom of any kind.

 

Either the Bible tells the truth about these things or the Book of Enoch does.

The only one I have time to look up was 106 and it says that Enoch was already living where the angels lived so it was at a time after he was taken away..   no real conflict....  I don't have time to get into others at language levels, but none of the others bother me enough to stop my life to get deeply inside it.....  and it isn't what this thread is about antway.

 

[Sister]

Can any one interpret?

 

The book of Enoch

 

 

 

Chapter 93

 

 

 

1, 2.  And after that Enoch both gave and began to recount from THE BOOKS.  And Enoch said:

 

 

 

Concerning the children of righteousness and concerning the ELECT OF THE WORLD,   And concerning the PLANT OF UPRIGHTNESS, I will speak these things,   Yeah, I Enoch will DECLARE (them) unto you, MY SONS.  According to that which appeared to me in the HEAVENLY VISION,  And which I have known through the word of the holy angels and have learnt from the heavenly tablets.

 

 

 

3.  And Enoch began to recount from THE BOOKS and said; 

 

I was born THE SEVENTH in the FIRST WEEK,  While judgement and righteousness still endured,

4.  And after me there shall arise in the SECOND WEEK, great wickedness,  And deceit shall have sprung up;  And IN IT there shall be the FIRST END,  And IN IT, a MAN shall be SAVED;  And AFTER it is ended UNRIGHTEOUSNESS shall grow up,  And a LAW shall be made for the SINNERS.

And AFTER THAT in the THIRD WEEK at its close,  A MAN shall be ELECTED as THE PLANT OF RIGHTEOUS JUDGEMENT,  And his posterity shall become THE PLANT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS for EVER MORE.

6.  And AFTER THAT in the FOURTH WEEK, at it’s close, VISIONS of the HOLY and RIGHTEOUS shall be seen,  And a LAW for all generations and an ENCLOSURE shall be made for THEM.

7.  And after that in the FIFTH WEEK, at its close, The HOUSE of GLORY and DOMINION shall be built FOR EVER.

8.  And AFTER THAT in the SIXTH WEEK all who live in it shall be BLINDED,  And the hearts of all of them shall godlessly FORSAKE WISDOM.  And in it a MAN shall ASCEND;  and at it’s CLOSE the HOUSE of DOMINION shall be burnt with fire,  And the WHOLE RACE of the CHOSEN ROOT shall be dispersed.

9.  And AFTER THAT in the SEVENTH WEEK shall an APOSTATE GENERATION arise,  And many shall be it’s deeds,  And all it’s deeds shall be APOSTATE.   10.  And at ITS CLOSE, shall be ELECTED.  The ELECT RIGHTEOUS of the ETERNAL PLANT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS,  To RECEIVE sevenfold INSTRUCTION concerning all HIS CREATION.

 

12.  And AFTER THAT there shall be another, the EIGHTH WEEK, that of righteousness,  And a SWORD shall be given to it that a RIGHTEOUS JUDGEMENT may be EXECUTED on the OPPRESSORS,  And SINNERS shall be DELIVERED into the HANDS of the RIGHTEOUS.   13.  And AT IT’S CLOSE they shall ACQUIRE HOUSES through their RIGHTEOUSNESS, And A HOUSE shall be built for THE GREAT KING in GLORY for EVER MORE.   14d.  And all MANKIND shall look to the path of UPRIGHTNESS.

14a.  And AFTER THAT, in the NINTH WEEK, the RIGHTEOUS JUDGEMENT shall be revealed to the WHOLE WORLD.   b.  And ALL the WORKS of the GODLESS shall VANISH from ALL THE EARTH.   c.  And the WORLD shall be WRITTEN DOWN for DESTRUCTION.

15.  And AFTER THIS, in the TENTH WEEK, in the SEVENTH PART,  There shall be the GREAT ETERNAL JUDGEMENT,  In which HE will EXECUTE VENGEANCE amongst THE ANGELS.  

16.  And the FIRST HEAVEN shall DEPART and PASS AWAY,  And a NEW HEAVEN shall APPEAR,  And all the powers of the heavens shall give SEVENFOLD LIGHT.

17.  And AFTER THAT, there will be MANY WEEKS WITHOUT NUMBER, for ever,  And all shall be in GOODNESS and RIGHTEOUSNESS,  And sin shall be no more mentioned for ever,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 19, 2016 by Sister
missed out the third week