Loving the Law

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, OldSchool2 said:

 they Without understanding of either the law or the prophets?

^"... But a Pharisee named Gamaliel, a teacher of the law, who was honored by all the people, stood up in the Sanhedrin and ordered that the men be put outside for a little while. Then he addressed the Sanhedrin: 'Men of Israel, consider carefully what you intend to do to these men ... in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God."

Gamaliel understood more than just the law.

They did not understand the prophets or the law concerning the kingdom of God in Christ Jesus though Old School. That was given by the apostles.

There is a lot to be gained by studying rabbinics.  But that is not to say their knowledge was not limited when it came to understanding the law according to the prophets. Mostly I think when it comes to Abraham and Gentiles they really misunderstood a lot................

[OldSchool2]

6 minutes ago, Joline said:

They did not understand the prophets or the law concerning the kingdom of God in Christ Jesus though Old School. That was given by the apostles.

There is a lot to be gained by studying rabbinics....

... then don't "throw the baby out with the bathwater" -- an idiomatic expression used to suggest an avoidable error in rejecting the essential along with the nonessential.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, OldSchool2 said:

  then don't "throw the baby out with the bathwater" -- an idiomatic expression used to suggest an avoidable error in rejecting the essential along with the nonessential.

Ok, I am not getting it. Pharisaic thought, and or teaching is the baby (the essential)? Is that what you are saying?

[Ezra]

2 hours ago, OldSchool2 said:

Before you throw the baby out with the bathwater, consider the understanding of Gamaliel (Acts 5:34-39).

Instead of pointing to Gamaliel, let's focus on what the Holy Spirit has to say:

Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. (2 Cor 3:12-16).

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Ezra said:

Instead of pointing to Gamaliel, let's focus on what the Holy Spirit has to say:

Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. (2 Cor 3:12-16).

What is abolished at the end that they could not see?

 

 

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, Ezra said:

Instead of pointing to Gamaliel, let's focus on what the Holy Spirit has to say:

Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. (2 Cor 3:12-16).

That's just it Ezra, He thinks it is important. How can you just tell someone that it is not? He may believe this verse supports Rabbinic views, maybe not.

 

[Ezra]

36 minutes ago, Joline said:

That's just it Ezra, He thinks it is important. How can you just tell someone that it is not? He may believe this verse supports Rabbinic views, maybe not.

It is on the authority of Scripture that we can say that Rabbinic views cannot be of any profit to Christians. The "veil" over the hearts of Jews can only be taken away after they believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and experience the New Birth. Without the indwelling Holy Spirit the rabbis can only grope in the dark.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Ezra said:

It is on the authority of Scripture that we can say that Rabbinic views cannot be of any profit to Christians. The "veil" over the hearts of Jews can only be taken away after they believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and experience the New Birth. Without the indwelling Holy Spirit the rabbis can only grope in the dark.

The veil hides that which is in the end abolished. In other words, Rabbinic thought errs understanding prophesy. And until that veil is taken away, they will not see or accept what is abolished in the end. And for those pro law folks, no I do not believe what is abolished in the end is the law in this verse.

[Qnts2]

7 hours ago, OldSchool2 said:

Before you throw the baby out with the bathwater, consider the understanding of Gamaliel (Acts 5:34-39).

I agree to a point. Gamaliel, like other Jewish people, had sincerely studied the OT and have an understanding of OT scripture. Therefore, Judaism has OT scriptural knowledge. Some are zealous for the scripture (OT), and spent time studying, so the Jewish people are not ignorant. But, when it comes to speaking about Christianity and the NT, Jewish people are ignorant, not stupid, just ignorant. So, if someone is looking to understand New Covenant teachings, a Rabbi in Judaism is the wrong person to seek as a teacher.

And as another warning. There is a small and radical group in Judaism, who believe that if the Gentiles would practice the laws given to Noah, and those Gentiles encourage Jewish people to be more observant of the Mosaic law, it will help to cause the Messiah to come. Included in that teaching, it will lead to renouncing Jesus and pushing Jewish believers to renounce Jesus. So, some Rabbis should be avoided. Particularly some Lubavitch Rabbis.  

[OldSchool2]

11 hours ago, Ezra said:

It is on the authority of Scripture that we can say that Rabbinic views cannot be of any profit to Christians....

"... cannot be of any profit to Christians"?

Gamaliel's sage advice to the Sanhedrin concerning the apostles led to their release; that's looks like "prophet" to me.