chat with a catholic

[Katholish]

Ronald,

The RCC believes in a literal return of Christ, His ruling the earth for 1000 years and other very mainline beliefs.

While the Second Coming of Christ is truly an important tenet of the Catholic Faith, we hold that He will come as Judge the second time and that thus the Final Judgment will occur at the Second Coming (Parousia).

Matthew 16:

27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels: and then will he render to every man according to his works.

1 Thessalonians 4:

15 For the Lord himself shall come down from heaven with commandment and with the voice of an archangel and with the trumpet of God: and the dead who are in Christ shall rise first.

[Katholish]

Kath I know you are being bombarded with questions, but in response to your earlier question, yes I would like to discuss this further.

You said that the members of the Roman Catholic Church believe they will get into Heaven by becoming the Children of God.

How is it you personally believe you will become a Child of God?

Through the sacrament of Baptism we become children of God and heirs of Heaven.

[Katholish]

Irene,

Now then Kat take the questions as you wish and if there is some you do not wish to answer please say so you don't have to give a reason why

I shall try to scrupulously answer everything that I can.

Also, "Kath" is ok, but "Kat" sounds too feminine. I am a young man afterall (though I understand that most assume otherwise from the screen name). The screen name "Katholish" is a slight corruption from the German word "Katholisch" which mean Catholic.

[Anne]

Okay,

So you believe if you are baptised you will go to Heaven?

I'm trying to follow you so I don't misconstrue anything you say.

With a view to that then, am I right in saying, that you do not believe that Jesus Christ sacrifice on the cross is the gift of salvation?

For instance, if someone said "I'm sorry Lord Jesus, I recognise that I am a sinner, I ask forgiveness for my sins, and ask you into my heart."

Do you believe that that person is forgiven of their sins and will enter Heaven?

Anne

(sorry if I seem a bit, silly, but I know little of the catholic church)

[Katholish]

So you believe if you are baptised you will go to Heaven?

Not necessarily. As I said in my other response to your question "Baptism gives the soul Sanctifying Grace, and if this Grace is retained (Grace is a participation in the Divine Life) until death, the person would be saved, having persevered to the end."

It is Baptism that applies the Salvific effects of the cross to the soul, but the communion with God that is established there can be lost. Baptism is necessary for Salvation, but not all Baptized people are saved.

With a view to that then, am I right in saying, that you do not believe that Jesus Christ sacrifice on the cross is the gift of salvation?

No, but rather Baptism is the way in which those graces are applied to the soul.

For instance, if someone said "I'm sorry Lord Jesus, I recognise that I am a sinner, I ask forgiveness for my sins, and ask you into my heart."

Then they should be baptized. Faith is necessary for Salvation, but so is baptism.

John 3:

5 Jesus answered: Amen, amen, I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Mark 16:

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall he condemned.

Matthew 28:

18 And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth.

19 Going therefore, teach ye all nations: baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.

[Anne]

My friend

I disagree, baptism is not nescessary for salvation, the blood that Jesus Christ shed on the cross is what is necessary for salvation, baptism is an outward declaration of your faith.

I pray that you will recognise the saviour that died on the cross for you.

But I Still don't understand what it is that you believe will get you into Heaven.

Love to you in Christ Jesus name

Anne

[Scylth]

Hopefully this was sufficient to show that there is no contradiction between the Scriptures and the Church's belief in the Perpetual Virginity of Mary.

If you mean saying that scripture doesn't mean what it says is sufficient then I would at least say that you accomplished that. But saying that scripture doesn't mean what it says is not something that I find very convincing.

In Matthew 13:55-56 we are told that Jesus had 4 brothers and some sisters at least. You say that it doesn't really mean that. I frankly can only conclude that you say that to promote your agenda.

Matthew 13:55 "Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? 56 "And His sisters, are they not all with us? Where then did this man get all these things?"

Galatians 1:18 Then three years later I went up to Jerusalem to become acquainted with Cephas, and stayed with him fifteen days. 19 But I did not see any other of the apostles except James, the Lord's brother.

These verses say that Paul saw James, the Lord's brother. Paul considered James, the Lord's brother, an Apostle, as he considered himself an Apostle. But you say that when Paul says James, the Lord's brother, he doesn't really mean, James, the Lord's brother. Again, I conclude that your selective reading is more agenda driven than anything else.

[Scylth]

The wording of the first sentence there is somewhat imprecise, and could be taken to mean something that we do not. We call Mary a mediatrix of graces, but not mean mediator between God and man in the sense that Christ holds that role, being both God and man.

Well, this is what scripture says:

1 Timothy 5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time.

And the Catholic Catechism:

969 "This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation .... Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix."510

In anyone's understanding Mediatrix means Mediator of the female persuasion. And not only that, but here we see the claim that Mary "did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation."

Mary brings "the gifts of eternal salvation" from her "saving office?" There is only one Savior and that is Jesus Christ. This is just more teaching about Mary that is in contradiction to the fundamental teachings of scripture.

[Old Timer]

Katholish, please correct me if I

[IreneM]

there are some traditons that are not scriptual but I don't want to digress here

In most cases people believe that Salvation comes when old enough to understand what Christ did for us. For catholics it comes when a baby is baptised

Do you not see something wrong with this??

Also when Christ died He said