more indept study of Armenian and Calvinist

[angels4u]

13 minutes ago, kwikphilly said:

Not meaning to go Off Topic Sis but I saw your question to Mega & thought I might add that I too,do not believe(by our reasoning) that God is FAIR,I know He is JUST,,,,,,,,

If we read the 2a0th Chapter of Matthew we can see that God is not "fair" by our standards but in fact He is JUST        Love<kwik

 

Amen Kwik,you are right, I should use the word "Just".  There are so many things happening in life that  people will ask is God "FAIR"?

Look at the people who all hungry or others reason they might think God is not fair.

God is always fair.

 

Does God predestine people for hell?

 

 

[angels4u]

Just now, angels4u said:

Amen Kwik,you are right, I should use the word "Just".  There are so many things happening in life that  people will ask is God "FAIR"?

Look at the people who all hungry or others reason they might think God is not fair.

God is always fair.

 

Does God predestine people for hell?

"I don't think so "for He wants ALL people to be saved.

 

 

 

 

[Ezra]

31 minutes ago, kwikphilly said:

Not meaning to go Off Topic Sis but I saw your question to Mega & thought I might add that I too,do not believe(by our reasoning) that God is FAIR,I know He is JUST,,,,,,,,

That is a true statement. God is absolutely just, but here's what we should remember:

God's justice would condemn all to Hell.

God's grace offers eternal life to all.

This is a reality because of what Christ accomplished in His death, burial, and resurrection.

Calvinists say eternal life is only for the elect. Arminians say those who receive eternal life can also lose it. Neither of these beliefs is true.

[kwikphilly]

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God's justice would condemn all to Hell.

God's grace offers eternal life to all.

Amen Brother,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Oh but for the Grace of God,Praise Jesus!                                                 With love-in Christ,Kwik

[kwikphilly]

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Does God predestine people for hell?                                                                                        posted by Angels4u

I'm not sure that "pre-destined" is the word I would choose ,I would say it is fore-ordained BECAUSE God knows what a person will choose for themselves,,,,,,So,what I am saying is "the sentence,GUILTY" is appointed them by GOD by their own free-will decision,,,,,,,,as God IS the Alpha & the Omega

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Isaiah 46:10s

Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things which have not been done, Saying, 'My purpose will be established, And I will accomplish all My good pleasure';

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Isaiah 44:7

 

'Who is like Me? Let him proclaim and declare it; Yes, let him recount it to Me in order, From the time that I established the ancient nation. And let them declare to them the things that are coming And the events that are going to take place.

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Acts 2:23

 

this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death.

Acts 3:18

 

"But the things which God announced beforehand by the mouth of all the prophets, that His Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled.

There is probably 100 more verses of Scripture to REveal to us that Almighty God is ALL Knowing                  With love-in Christ,Kwik

[Omegaman 3.0]

5 hours ago, enoob57 said:

I also am in your ranks and unlike the Calvinists I do not have to alter the simple meaning of one word in the Bible fit my stance

Hey Stephen,

As a Calvinist, I am unaware that I am changing the meaning of some word, can you show me where you think I do that?

BTW, if you want to make accusations like that, you might want to consider being more specific. Would it be fair for me to fire a shot that cannot be defended?

Would you like it it I said: "Unlike enoob, I do not have to make baseless and false accusations against a class of believers, in order to make myself appear right, and damage there credibility!"? Get the point?

Thanks!

[Omegaman 3.0]

3 hours ago, Joline said:

This was a very good read Oman. Somethings to really think upon. I still do not know where I stand on this issue, but these types of explanations sure help with our pondering of these things. Thank you

Thank you Joline. Pondering and thinking, is a good thing, and it shows a willingness to be taught, an open mind to learn. There is nothing wrong with not knowing something, and there is no need to rush to a conclusion. Whatever we think about it, God will do it His way.

Open minds, can help keep the heart open. Closed minds, are a way we use, to try to lock God out, and it is not in our own best interest, to do that.

[Omegaman 3.0]

5 hours ago, enoob57 said:

The major flaw in Calvinism is making sin a creation of God and God in necessity using it to accomplish His Will...

Where do you get this stuff?

Where does Calvinism teach that sin is a creation of God. If you cannot demonstrate that, then you are guilty of false testimony, and I really wish you would stop that.

Calvinists read the same Bible as non Calvinists. What most of us see, I think, is that in Genesis, God created everything, and declared it good, end of story. God created the environment, it which it was possible for sin to arise. God created Satan, but He did not create Satan as a being opposed to God.

Even apart from that obvious truth, Genesis describe the creation of things. Things that are tangible, sin is an action, a choice of sentient beings, who are moral agents. God created every thing, not everything that would happen within His creation. Stop maligning people who disagree with you. 

You are critical of Calvinism, I understand that you did not say all Calvinists believe "X", but that is the implication, since Calvinists believe Calvinism. This is twice now, in this thread, where you have misstated what Calvinism is. Perhaps you just do not know what Calvinism is and holds, as well as Calvinists themselves do. If that is the case, you might consider refraining from mis-representing their position.

I am not conversant with debate and philosophical terminology, but isn't this close to being what they call a straw man argument, where you misstate a position, in order to knock it down, because you cannot defeat the actual position?

[missmuffet]

How many point Calvinism are you Omega?

[missmuffet]

Question: "Calvinism vs. Arminianism - which view is correct?"

Answer: Calvinism and Arminianism are two systems of theology that attempt to explain the relationship between God's sovereignty and man's responsibility in the matter of salvation. Calvinism is named for John Calvin, a French theologian who lived from 1509-1564. Arminianism is named for Jacobus Arminius, a Dutch theologian who lived from 1560-1609.

Both systems can be summarized with five points. Calvinism holds to the total depravity of man while Arminianism holds to partial depravity. Calvinism’s doctrine of total depravity states that every aspect of humanity is corrupted by sin; therefore, human beings are unable to come to God on their own accord. Partial depravity states that every aspect of humanity is tainted by sin, but not to the extent that human beings are unable to place faith in God of their own accord. Note: classical Arminianism rejects “partial depravity” and holds a view very close to Calvinistic “total depravity” (although the extent and meaning of that depravity are debated in Arminian circles). In general, Arminians believe there is an “intermediate” state between total depravity and salvation. In this state, made possible by prevenient grace, the sinner is being drawn to Christ and has the God-given ability to choose salvation.

Calvinism includes the belief that election is unconditional, while Arminianism believes in conditional election. Unconditional election is the view that God elects individuals to salvation based entirely on His will, not on anything inherently worthy in the individual. Conditional election states that God elects individuals to salvation based on His foreknowledge of who will believe in Christ unto salvation, thereby on the condition that the individual chooses God.

Calvinism sees the atonement as limited, while Arminianism sees it as unlimited. This is the most controversial of the five points. Limited atonement is the belief that Jesus only died for the elect. Unlimited atonement is the belief that Jesus died for all, but that His death is not effectual until a person receives Him by faith.

Calvinism includes the belief that God’s grace is irresistible, while Arminianism says that an individual can resist the grace of God. Irresistible grace argues that when God calls a person to salvation, that person will inevitably come to salvation. Resistible grace states that God calls all to salvation, but that many people resist and reject this call.

Calvinism holds to perseverance of the saints while Arminianism holds to conditional salvation. Perseverance of the saints refers to the concept that a person who is elected by God will persevere in faith and will not permanently deny Christ or turn away from Him. Conditional salvation is the view that a believer in Christ can, of his/her own free will, turn away from Christ and thereby lose salvation. Note - many Arminians deny "conditional salvation" and instead hold to "eternal security."

So, in the Calvinism vs. Arminianism debate, who is correct? It is interesting to note that in the diversity of the body of Christ, there are all sorts of mixtures of Calvinism and Arminianism. There are five-point Calvinists and five-point Arminians, and at the same time three-point Calvinists and two-point Arminians. Many believers arrive at some sort of mixture of the two views. Ultimately, it is our view that both systems fail in that they attempt to explain the unexplainable. Human beings are incapable of fully grasping a concept such as this. Yes, God is absolutely sovereign and knows all. Yes, human beings are called to make a genuine decision to place faith in Christ unto salvation. These two facts seem contradictory to us, but in the mind of God they make perfect sense.

http://www.gotquestions.org/Calvinism-vs-Arminianism.html