"the dead in Christ". o

[Guest Thallasa]

22 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

J

I don't want to follow the comments above word for word, or sentence by sentence, or principal by principal.

It would better if we collect all relevant information in this matter and not only from Paul post this statement to see if he still holds to this understanding, or the Holy Spirit has revealed a better insite in this matter, that is different from his statements to the Thessalonians in the past. 

And what the other disciples have taught in this matter, and should we also considare if our Lord Jesus has made any reference in these matters, and we also have the prophets of the Pre- Jesus to consider, and to what were even the beliefs of the Jews and the disciples all together before they met Jesus, we have Also Jonh the Baptist and what did he teach in this matter, the prophesies at the time of his birth, and the birth of Jesus in The Gospel of Luke, and other.

Your post mentions what are some different views, leaving a trail of questions unanswered, and quite cloudy about definitions of terms use. 

If you would like to have a discution in this matter, from your own understanding, so you can resort to your reasoning, that would be deferent.

I am the OP, and I want to thank you for your response for you have raised questions, for further consideration.

God bless always, because he loves us for general and his specific reasons which are deferent for every one of us.

Yes ,I never take what Paul says without checking what Jesus and His apostles say on any important matter .

But as for what  I  believe personally ,they are not Pauls .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LeavesSeeds]

Good, Right, and Thank you bopeep.

22 hours ago, bopeep1909 said:

I am seeing a lot of false doctrine on Worthy so I choose to post a reliable Christian Ministry so people can see the truth. I don't want anyone to stumble and fall in their belief.

 

37 minutes ago, bopeep1909 said:

It would take me all day to be specific and post each and every one. Sorry

 

23 minutes ago, bopeep1909 said:

I am afraid that my general answer of "False doctrine on Worthy" will have to suffice Rusty.

 

[kwikphilly]

The confusion here for the OP seems to be because of the words "alive" &/or "dead",,,,neither matters the important WORD to focus on is "IN",,,,,,,Morning Glory tried to point this out,,,, that is the significant WORD.....IN Christ,,,,,,,,,Ezra gave a simple & definitive post

Quote

There are two aspects to "the dead in Christ", one relates to the body, the other to the soul and spirit.  The dead in Christ are those who expired on earth and whose bodies are in the grave.  But their souls and spirits are always alive to Christ, and live with Christ in Heaven. 

When Scripture says that "the dead in Christ shall rise first" it should be obvious that this speaks of the dead bodies being resurrected.  Their souls and spirits will be brought by Christ to be joined to their resurrected bodies, and from then they will live with Christ in glorious and immortal bodies, and fully perfected.                                                                                               posted by Ezra

HisVoice made a comment about the "Dead in Christ" will be the first to be "caught up"  but this Thread is not about the "Rapture",,,,I do  believe our Worthy Family do read their Bibles,,,,,,so none are "slow" ,,,they are simply staying "On Topic"

[Your closest friendnt]

x

On 5/29/2016 at 7:13 PM, Ezra said:

Not sure what you mean by "the grave came up".  Kindly clarify. As to never being separated we are told that (1) Christ is in us  -- Christ in you the hope of glory (Col 1:27) (2) we are in Him -- through the baptism BY the Holy Spirit (1 Cor 12:13), and (3) nothing can separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord (Rom 8:30). Christians are literally joined to Christ.

What adds further clarity to this is John 11:25,26:

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

This tells us that while our bodies may die physically, we – the individual souls and spirits – will never die, since we have received the gift of eternal life.

Thank you Ezra for this post, I keep reading it all over again, and I am bless.

Just about what I wanted to say using different words and different method, for that's how I understand this matter that we are always alive to our Lord Jesus Christ, for we are one in Spirit with him, we belong to him, he purchase us with his blood and he has make us co-heirs with him of the Heavenly things, and we are also one with the Father, for we have of his Spirit as Jesus Christ also is of the same spirit.

Jesus Chris has given us life and that what we had been waiting for, to be born from above and receive of his eternal life, for we are his workmanship, made in his own Image, and that is not from ourbselfs, it is thats how he made us, so he can not loose no one of us, for we only have life in him, 

And who ever liveth and believeth small never die. (Jonh 11:25,26)

That's why I can say with confidence that in Christ we are always alive to him and in him, whether still in the body or when not in the body. For this body is our temporary house, and once I get rid of it, I don't want it back again. I leave this last part to our Lord Jesus Christ, for he knows what he does, and for me I don't want to second guess him and try to figure out what about this and what about that, for he has not given me this ministry, and I am very Happy when I leave these matters to his providence. 

For I would like to thank every one for participating, and especially Ezra for his post,and the scripture of Jonh 11: 25,and 26.

I am the life and the resuraction, the one who believes in me never dies, 

And if I can say something similar with my own words, it is like that:

As he is so we are, as long as he is alive, and have the eternal life. So are we.

The only way for us to die is only if Jesus die, and this will never hapen and that garanties us to be with him and the Father always.

Because he lives, we live.

Because he is alive to God we are also alive to God. 

God bless

 

[Ezra]

1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Just about what I wanted to say using different words and different method, for that's how I understand this matter that we are always alive to our Lord Jesus Christ,

YCF,

You have a perfect understanding and grasp of your position in Christ, and therefore you can always be at rest. We trust every believer is resting in Christ.

[FresnoJoe]

On 5/29/2016 at 2:05 PM, Your closest friendnt said:

I read the Gospels throughout, and I only come across to been "alive in Christ".

So what is this, "dead in Christ" ?

Your response will be appreciate. 

Alive

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 5:21 (King James Version)

And Dead

I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. Galatians 2:20 (New International Version)

It's All Of Jesus

For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. For one who has died has been set free from sin.

Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God.

So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus. Romans 6:5-11 (English Standard Version)

[Your closest friendnt]

On 6/5/2016 at 2:50 AM, FresnoJoe said:

Alive

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 5:21 (King James Version)

This is an excellent scriptures with Jesus that time addressing people who did not have the life, they were dead to God.

They believe in God the kept the Law they had forgiveness of sins, they had God but the were dead to him.

Jesus was addressing the children of the Lord God and he was telling them that they were not one with their God, their God had life and they had death, even thought they were upright with the Law, and they had the righteousness of the law but still they were not one with their God, they could not be with him. 

That's why he was telling them, I am the one with the Life, as Jonh the Baptist had witness, and you must be one with me first, to be one with God. 

He went as far as telling them, that before I come even though you did not have faith in me, (for they believed in the promise of the Christ), but they did not believe that he was the one who had been promised. 

Jesus was telling them or he had to informed them about the bitter truth, that things have change, that something has change with him, or something will change with the coming of the Son of God, the life giver.

This is sad to say, and Jesus had to tell them, for he had to say the truth to them, no matter how unwelcome the truth could be and no matter how their feelings will be affected towards him.

He told them the time has come and it is very near at hand, that you will continue to do what you have been doing all along from the time of Moses till now, offering the sacrifices in the Temple and keeping the celebrations and believing that the Lord God receives those petitions made to him through the priesthood.

Jesus said: no matter how strong is your faith in God and your belief that the Lord God is there to receive your petitions and your burn offerings the fact remains that he won't be there, that your petitions are made but they do not have any value anymore.

That's howare he put it, unless you have me, you are without God.

You believe you have God, but the bitter truth it is that you don't have God anymore, you are without God, or in stronger words you are Godless.

I know that even me, if I was there been a devotee in the Law of Moses, and hear him say these words, I know that I would freak out, and I wish I could shut him up by keeling him that very moment.

No matter how disturbing it is we have to face that this is all about of the coming of the Messiah that the Temple worship will seize, that the Messiah will not only bring forgiveness of Sins but he will give the life of God to the people and the people will no longer be separated from God but be one with him forever, and that it was not only for them, but for the whole world.

And we also have a heavenly inheritance with him, waiting for us as soon as we are free from this earthly vessel or house we now live in, for earnestly we wait to be free from this earthly vessel, because that what it is that keep us from our heavenly inheritance, but everything at the right time, we must live our lifes here on earth first and when the time comes to discard this earthly vesell and be free from it and receive our heavenly inheritance and never look back.

Everything is made new. 

PS

Today there are other big groups who believe in God without the life giver, the Lord Jesus Christ.

It is sad for they are censired but without the one God has appointed to bring them to him, the Lamb of God who takes away their sins, and gives the life of God to then, it is sad that, they are also without any God, no matter how strong they believe that they have God, the truth remains that they are without his life, they are in spiritual separation from him, and they can never be with him. 

 

Quote

And Dead

I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. Galatians 2:20 (New International Version)

It's All Of Jesus

For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. For one who has died has been set free from sin.

Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God.

So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus. Romans 6:5-11 (English Standard Version)

 

[Openly Curious]

On 5/29/2016 at 3:05 PM, Your closest friendnt said:

I read the Gopels through out, and I only come across to been "alive in Christ".

So what is this, "dead in Christ" ?

Your response will be appreciate. 

You should read and study these scriptures concerning this found in....Ephesians 2: 1-10;  Romans 6: 1-14

    

[PlasmaHam]

The phrase"dead in Christ" is referring to the Earthly bodies of Christians who have gone up to meet the Lord. There is no way for a born-again Christ to be spiritually "dead in Christ" this phrase is referring to a physical state of being.

 Correct me if I am wrong, but every instance of being "dead in Christ" seems to refer to the Rapture. God says that he would call the bodies of the Christian dead up to Heaven before calling the rest. This is one reason I support the idea of Christians being rapture physically as well as spiritually.

I am not sure why God will raise the dead bodies first, but the common joke around my church is because the dead have 6 feet further to go than everyone else.

[Your closest friendnt]

X

1 hour ago, PlasmaHam said:

The phrase"dead in Christ" is referring to the Earthly bodies of Christians who have gone up to meet the Lord. There is no way for a born-again Christ to be spiritually "dead in Christ" this phrase is referring to a physical state of being.

 Correct me if I am wrong, but every instance of being "dead in Christ" seems to refer to the Rapture. God says that he would call the bodies of the Christian dead up to Heaven before calling the rest. This is one reason I support the idea of Christians being rapture physically as well as spiritually.

I am not sure why God will raise the dead bodies first, but the common joke around my church is because the dead have 6 feet further to go than everyone else.

Hello PH, thank you responce.

I congratulate you for saying that we are alive in Christ all the time and that he is with us when we are here alive on earth, and then we go to be where he is, after we leave this earthly vessel.

The other things i read in your post  sounds unbelievable, and I don't think that will ever happen and it is not biblical. Neither it is possible, and I don't think the people who spread them they believe it.