Words of Jesus proves pre-Trib rapture is false

[TehMill]

Tribulation means trouble....not wrath,

When Herod heard about Christ being born he was troubled and all Jerusalem with him, the great tribulation is the great persecution Jesus warned about at the end of the age.

 

 

...ah the western church is not prepared, the Chinese church is prepared

[HAZARD]

4 hours ago, TehMill said:

Jesus was a post tribulation preacher

 

There are not multiple comings in the clouds with great power and glory, trumps and gatherings

 

The one spoken of by Jesus in the "little apocalypse" is the one spoken about in 2.Thess.2.

 

"AFTER the tribulation of those days.....they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory...He will send His angels to gather the elect."

 

Pre trib doctrine was foisted upon the church by Darby, rejected by British theologians but accepted by American theologians.

 

Many Scriptures teach that Jesus will return to take those in Him out of the world to avoid the tribulation. He will return with them after the Tribulation.

The Rapture of the Church before the Tribulation.

The purpose of the rapture is to resurrect the just from the dead and take all the saints out of the world before the tribulation comes, in order that they may have fulfilled in them the purpose for which God has saved them.

Jesus told the disciples that some would escape the terrible things that were to transpire on the Earth in the last days. He said, “Pray that you may be accounted worth to escape all these things of,

 

Matt. 24, 25; Luke 21:1-19, 25-28, that shall come to pass, and stand before the Son of man,”  Luke 21:34-36. These two passages in Luke 21:34-36 and John 14:1-3, are the only ones in the Gospels that are clear concerning the Rapture. Jesus did not reveal this, it was revealed by Paul many years later in 1 Cor. 15:51. The disciples did not have the slightest idea as to how they were to escape, unless they thought that Christ would deliver them from these things through His power. The how was not revealed or even mentioned before Paul explained how they were to escape.

 

The Rapture of the church should never be confused with the second coming or second advent  of Christ, for He does not come to the earth at that time.

The Rapture is a distinct coming in itself, not to the Earth, but in the air where Christ meets the saints and then takes them back to Heaven to present them blameless before God the Father, John 14:1-3; 1 Thess. 3:13; 4:16, 17.

 

The Rapture takes place several years before the literal advent of Christ to the Earth, for they, the saints come back with Him at that time. The saints are in Heaven before God, and not in the air, from the time of the Rapture to their coming again with Christ to reign as kings and priests, Jude 14; Rev. 19:14; Zech. 14:5.

At the Rapture, the Lord comes from Heaven as far as the air, or Earthly Heavens and the saints will be caught up to meet Him in the air.

At the second coming, the saints are not raptured, and neither is Christ, but both will come back to the Earth together. The rapture takes place before the Tribulation, whereas the second Advent takes place after the Tribulation. The Rapture could occur at any time, whereas the second Advent cannot occur until after the tribulation.

 

Daniel’s Seventieth Week and the Tribulation. Dan. 9:24-27.

 

The Tribulation will begin to affect Israel before the seventieth week begins. And when the Antichrist rises at the beginning of the Week, Israel will be undergoing persecution by the whore and the ten kings of Revised Rome who are dominated by the whore until the middle of the week. The Antichrist will make a seven years covenant with Israel assuring them protection in their continued establishment as a nation, Dan. 9:27.

The Jews will not accept Catholicism when it again dominates the nations of the old world and begins to murder all heretics as it has done in the past. Because Jews will not submit, there will be a widespread persecution of the Jews and “theywill be hated of all nations” during the time of “the beginning of sorrows” when the Antichrist will be endeavoring to conquer all these nations, Matt. 24:4-12.

Antichrist will need Jewish moral and financial support to help him rise over these nations, so he will make an alliance with them for seven years. Therefore, the time of the Tribulation is during the whole of Daniel’s Seventieth Week, Dan. 9:27. It will end at the second Advent, Matt. 24:29-31.

[TehMill]

more happens at the coming of the Lord than the gathering for He will destroy Antichrist, and all those who come up with him. It is the beginning of the day of the Lord.

 

It seems clear to me that the rapture is to save us from the wrath, but that is also why Israel is to be gathered...fully gathered. Big mistake to believe that Israel is to suffer in the Trib.....Jeremiah 30 says they will dwell in safety...Daniel says Michael will stand up for them and deliver them.

 

The church goes through the Trib, not Israel.

 

Tribulation = trouble not wrath.

"...they will put you to tribulation.....in the world you will have tribulation.....through much tribulation must we enter the Kingdom of Heaven"

 

Tribulation is persecution, the Great Tribulation is the Great Persecution

Edited July 31, 2016 by TehMill

[TehMill]

The Lord's coming is the END of Antichrist not the beginning, he will have reigned a bit while  the church is still as yet ungathered.

[HAZARD]

25 minutes ago, TehMill said:

more happens at the coming of the Lord than the gathering for He will destroy Antichrist, and all those who come up with him. It is the beginning of the day of the Lord.

 

It seems clear to me that the rapture is to save us from the wrath, but that is also why Israel is to be gathered...fully gathered. Big mistake to believe that Israel is to suffer in the Trib.....Jeremiah 30 says they will dwell in safety...Daniel says Michael will stand up for them and deliver them.

 

The church goes through the Trib, not Israel.

 

Tribulation = trouble not wrath.

"...they will put you to tribulation.....in the world you will have tribulation.....through much tribulation must we enter the Kingdom of Heaven"

 

Tribulation is persecution, the Great Tribulation is the Great Persecution

Its God's people, His saints, His church who will be raptured before the tribulation.

The very purpose of the rapture is to resurrect the just from the dead and take all the saints out of the world before the tribulation comes, in order that they may have fulfilled in them the purpose for which God has saved them. Jesus told the disciples that some would escape the terrible things that were to transpire on the Earth in the last days. He said, “Pray that you may be accounted worth to escape all these things of, Matt. 24, 25; Luke 21:1-19, 25-28, that shall come to pass, and stand before the Son of man,” Luke 21:34-36. These two passages in Luke 21:34-36 and John 14:1-3, are the only ones in the Gospels that are clear concerning the Rapture. Jesus did not reveal this, it was revealed by Paul many years later in 1 Cor. 15:51. The disciples did not have the slightest idea as to how they were to escape, unless they thought that Christ would deliver them from these things through His power. The how was not revealed or even mentioned before Paul explained how they were to escape.
The Rapture of the church should never be confused with the second coming or second advent of Christ, for He does not come to the earth at that time.
The Rapture is a distinct coming in itself, not to the Earth, but in the air where Christ meets the saints and then takes them back to Heaven to present them blameless before God the Father, John 14:1-3; 1 Thess. 3:13; 4:16, 17.
The Rapture takes place several years before the literal advent of Christ to the Earth, for they, the saints come back with Him at that time. The saints are in Heaven before God, and not in the air, from the time of the Rapture to their coming again with Christ to reign as kings and priests, Jude 14; Rev. 19:14; Zech. 14:5.
At the Rapture, the Lord comes from Heaven as far as the air, or Earthly Heavens and the saints will be caught up to meet Him in the air.
At the second coming, the saints are not raptured, and neither is Christ, but both will come back to the Earth together. The rapture takes place before the Tribulation, whereas the second Advent takes place after the Tribulation. The Rapture could occur at any time, whereas the second Advent cannot occur until after the tribulation.

[TehMill]

Tribulation is not wrath

 

God will remove us from His wrath....but through much tribulation we must enter the Kingdom

 

Tribulation = persecution

[HAZARD]

20 hours ago, TehMill said:

Tribulation is not wrath

 

God will remove us from His wrath....but through much tribulation we must enter the Kingdom

 

Tribulation = persecution

Not so, here is what Jesus Christ said, in His own words;

Jesus told the disciples that some would escape the terrible things that were to transpire on the Earth in the last days.

He said, “Pray that you may be accounted worth to escape all these things of, Matt. 24 and 25;  Luke 21:1-19, 25-28, that shall come to pass, and stand before the Son of man,” Luke 21:34-36. These two passages in Luke 21:34-36 and John 14:1-3, are the only ones in the Gospels that are clear concerning the Rapture.

[TehMill]

11 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

Not so, here is what Jesus Christ said, in His own words;

Jesus told the disciples that some would escape the terrible things that were to transpire on the Earth in the last days.

He said, “Pray that you may be accounted worth to escape all these things of, Matt. 24 and 25;  Luke 21:1-19, 25-28, that shall come to pass, and stand before the Son of man,” Luke 21:34-36. These two passages in Luke 21:34-36 and John 14:1-3, are the only ones in the Gospels that are clear concerning the Rapture.

And Lu. 21.16. says

And ye shall be betrayed both by parents and brethren and kinsfolk and friends and some of you shall they cause to be put to death

17

and ye shall be hated of all men for my names sake.

 

so there is a balance to what you are saying, all these things take place before the rapture.

[HAZARD]

16 minutes ago, TehMill said:

And Lu. 21.16. says

And ye shall be betrayed both by parents and brethren and kinsfolk and friends and some of you shall they cause to be put to death

17

and ye shall be hated of all men for my names sake.

 

so there is a balance to what you are saying, all these things take place before the rapture.

I have been betrayed already, and I am hated by many for His names sake, and I am still alive and well, and still prospering, so it  doesn't matter.

Those in Christ, His saints who are worthy, will be taken away, raptured, so as to escape the terrible things that will transpire on the Earth in the last days. Jesus said it, not I ? I believe what He says, not what people think.  

[TehMill]

1 minute ago, HAZARD said:

I have been betrayed already, and I am hated by many for His names sake, and I am still alive and well, and still prospering, so it  doesn't matter.

Those in Christ, His saints who are worthy, will be taken away, raptured, so as to escape the terrible things that will transpire on the Earth in the last days. Jesus said it, not I ? I believe what He says, not what people think.  

What He says is some of you they will put to death...it is not easy to be a Christian in China...we are saved from God's wrath, we are not saved from tribulation/persecution

 

The rapture occurs AFTER the tribulation of those days....Jesus said that.