Revelation Man Posted July 16, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 4,071 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 552 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/01/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted July 16, 2016 3 hours ago, Spock said: No no no, Babylon is not the 8th beast, but rather the prostitute who sits on the beast. One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits by many waters. 2With her the kings of the earth committed adultery, and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries.” Who is she ? Who is the Great Prostitute ? The mistake that is made is everyone takes her Descriptions, and turns her into her descriptors. She is described as a Mystery, as Babylon the Great, as Mother of Harlots, and as an Abomination of all the Earth. So why does she become Mystery Babylon ? And in verse 18 she is described as Rome the city that rules over all the Kings. The problem is, everyone wants to take these clues about who the prostitute is, and turn the prostitute into Mystery Babylon or Rome, even New York City or Jerusalem. No one sees that in Revelation 17:16, the prostitute is DESTROYED, This is Key : How can the prostitute be alive in Rev. 18 when she is destroyed in Rev. 17 ? Why do we think that Rev. 17:18 is really later in time than 17:16, when she has been burned with fire and destroyed ? It is not, and can not be, 17:18 is only the Angel telling John, as per his time, who this prostitute was, it was Rome at his time, the headquarters of False Religion. ( The Angel showed John this whole vision, then after the vision the Angel comes to John an says, HEY JOHN, you know that woman/prostitute you saw in the vision ? Well AT THIS TIME, she is Rome) Implying she was Babylon, she is a Mystery (Secret that is being kept by God), she is an Abomination, she is the Mother of Harlots and she is Rome. What do all the things have in common ? That is key: All of these things/places are a product of False Religion. Babylon was the chief city of all time as per False Religion Seven Major gods who decree decrees, Anu ,Enlil ,Enki, Ninhursag, Inanna/Ishtar, Nanna/Sin, Utu/Shamash, Other Major gods, Adad, Dumuzid/Tammuz, Enkimdu, Ereshkigal, Kingu, Geshtinanna, Lahar, Marduk, Nergal, Ninurta and 22 more minor gods, whom Bel is one of then you have demi-gods and spirits. She is also a Mystery, meaning in the bible that it is a secret because of silence. (If it is a "Secret" why do we assume it is Babylon or Rome? That is no way to keep a secret) Fornication/prostitution/False Religion is all the same. Mother of Harlots/False Religion, and Finally Rome, the headquarters in Johns time of False Religion. Babylon in Rev. 18 stands for the final Beast System of the Anti-Christ and 10 Kings. The Great Harlot is no more in 17:16, so that proves Babylon is not the Harlot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted July 17, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 267 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,205 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,497 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Author Share Posted July 17, 2016 On 15/07/2016 at 0:51 PM, Spock said: Would you agree back in the first century when people often said Babylon, they meant Rome? If you would agree to that, why can't MODERN day Babylon be NYC? Can you Honestly read Rev 17/18 and tell me you city a literal desolate Babylon in the desert more than you can see NYC? It doesn't fit in 100 ways. Just because it has the same name, I have already proven Babylon doesn't always mean Babylon. Hi Spock, In the above quote you were talking to Ezra, however I had a thought. Let`s follow your idea that NYC is Babylon the Great, the mother of prostitutes, so what is the effect if she gets burned? How does burning NYC effect the world - talking religiously here? Marilyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted July 17, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted July 17, 2016 11 hours ago, Revelation Man said: Who is she ? Who is the Great Prostitute ? "She" is the doctrine of demons that influences mankind to live ungodly and rebellious lives. She will be cast down at the return of Jesus. Babylon can also refer to a city that epitomizes such doctrine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revelation Man Posted July 17, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 4,071 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 552 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/01/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted July 17, 2016 (edited) 20 hours ago, Spock said: No no no, Babylon is not the 8th beast, but rather the prostitute who sits on the beast. One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits by many waters. 2With her the kings of the earth committed adultery, and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries.” REPLIED TO HE WRONG POST HERE..........Was Replying to Last Daze.....Sorry. "She" is the doctrine of demons that influences mankind to live ungodly and rebellious lives. She will be cast down at the return of Jesus. Babylon can also refer to a city that epitomizes such doctrine. My point was, SHE is the prostitute, or Great Harlot. She is not referred to by God as Babylon. The Judgment is against the Harlot, not against anything called Mystery Babylon. These are only descriptions of the Harlot. Rev. 17:1 says come see the judgment of the Harlot. Edited July 17, 2016 by Revelation Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted July 17, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted July 17, 2016 8 hours ago, Marilyn C said: Hi Spock, In the above quote you were talking to Ezra, however I had a thought. Let`s follow your idea that NYC is Babylon the Great, the mother of prostitutes, so what is the effect if she gets burned? How does burning NYC effect the world - talking religiously here? Marilyn. Very good question Marilyn, honestly, I don't have a good answer. The only thing NYC has in the way of influence is political (UN), financial and cultural I suppose, but not a religious influence, unless satans throne has been moved to NYC from Babylon pursuant to Zechariah 5. Rev 17:18 does say the "woman you saw is the GREAT CITY that rules over the kings of the earth." Could this be NYC because this is where the UN is housed? Does ruling over the Kings of the earth have to imply a RELIGIOUS influence rather than a political one? But your point is a good one that needs to be addressed: Mystery Babylon the Great, the MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES...does this mean she holds a RELIGIOUS sway over the earth? However, If we agree the "woman" in chapter 17 is also a GREAT CITY, then I think the candidates have to be: 1. Rome 2. Ancient Babylon 3. Jerusalem 4. Mecca 5. NYC Chapter 18 goes into a long description that to me best describe NYC. But maybe before we move O to chapter 18, we need to fully develop your question, so why don't you explain why you believe this can't be NYC and why you believe what you believe again. Things get lost or confusing when you try to sort out all the threads. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted July 17, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted July 17, 2016 15 hours ago, Revelation Man said: Who is she ? Who is the Great Prostitute ? The mistake that is made is everyone takes her Descriptions, and turns her into her descriptors. She is described as a Mystery, as Babylon the Great, as Mother of Harlots, and as an Abomination of all the Earth. So why does she become Mystery Babylon ? And in verse 18 she is described as Rome the city that rules over all the Kings. The problem is, everyone wants to take these clues about who the prostitute is, and turn the prostitute into Mystery Babylon or Rome, even New York City or Jerusalem. No one sees that in Revelation 17:16, the prostitute is DESTROYED, This is Key : How can the prostitute be alive in Rev. 18 when she is destroyed in Rev. 17 ? Why do we think that Rev. 17:18 is really later in time than 17:16, when she has been burned with fire and destroyed ? It is not, and can not be, 17:18 is only the Angel telling John, as per his time, who this prostitute was, it was Rome at his time, the headquarters of False Religion. ( The Angel showed John this whole vision, then after the vision the Angel comes to John an says, HEY JOHN, you know that woman/prostitute you saw in the vision ? Well AT THIS TIME, she is Rome) Implying she was Babylon, she is a Mystery (Secret that is being kept by God), she is an Abomination, she is the Mother of Harlots and she is Rome. What do all the things have in common ? That is key: All of these things/places are a product of False Religion. Babylon was the chief city of all time as per False Religion Seven Major gods who decree decrees, Anu ,Enlil ,Enki, Ninhursag, Inanna/Ishtar, Nanna/Sin, Utu/Shamash, Other Major gods, Adad, Dumuzid/Tammuz, Enkimdu, Ereshkigal, Kingu, Geshtinanna, Lahar, Marduk, Nergal, Ninurta and 22 more minor gods, whom Bel is one of then you have demi-gods and spirits. She is also a Mystery, meaning in the bible that it is a secret because of silence. (If it is a "Secret" why do we assume it is Babylon or Rome? That is no way to keep a secret) Fornication/prostitution/False Religion is all the same. Mother of Harlots/False Religion, and Finally Rome, the headquarters in Johns time of False Religion. Babylon in Rev. 18 stands for the final Beast System of the Anti-Christ and 10 Kings. The Great Harlot is no more in 17:16, so that proves Babylon is not the Harlot. I'm not convinced rev 17:18 is describing ROME, although it could well be. also, verse 16 does not say the woman is destroyed. It says "they WILL bring her to ruin...they WILL eat her flesh...." will = future tense. chapter 18 describes her "ruin" and all throughout the cheater it says "woe,woe, O great city, O Babylon, CITY of power.." She is a GREAT CITY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revelation Man Posted July 17, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 4,071 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 552 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/01/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted July 17, 2016 44 minutes ago, Spock said: I'm not convinced rev 17:18 is describing ROME, although it could well be. also, verse 16 does not say the woman is destroyed. It says "they WILL bring her to ruin...they WILL eat her flesh...." will = future tense. chapter 18 describes her "ruin" and all throughout the cheater it says "woe,woe, O great city, O Babylon, CITY of power.." She is a GREAT CITY! The other reply above was to Last Daze, so skip it, I hit the wrong quote. Anyway, lets look at this in depth. I agree, Rev. 16 is future tense, but Rev. 18 is the Angel telling John, that woman you saw in the vision, the one bout the future, she is now Rome, (she was Babylon). As pr the Harlot being killed off, we have to go to the original Greek to see is this is in fact what is happening. I will post Holman first, just for those who like modern. (HCSB) Revelation 17:16 16 The 10 horns you saw, and the beast, will hate the prostitute. They will make her desolate and naked, devour her flesh, and burn her up with fire. Revelation 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate ( eremoo 2049, to lay WASTE ) and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn ( katakaio 2618, to burn down, to CONSUME WHOLLY ) her with fire. Look at it like this, the vision is over in verse 17, then the Angel reveals to John who the woman is at his time, or who she is most associated with at his time, because the woman is not Rome, she is not Babylon, she is False Religion, and she has been destroyed, consumed wholly in Rev. 17:16. (Judged) She is no more. This makes sense since the Anti-Christ is going to demand worship, he will destroy any and all Religions, remember, he comes after the Saints and Israel. His mission is to wipe out any and all Religions, so he can be worshiped as god. She was party to Babylon in that False Religion was what Babylon was noted for. She is a mystery or SECRET because God is not TELLING who she is, the word used for Mystery implies a secret by silence. She is an abomination and the mother of harlots, she is False Religion of any kind, and God places it in the Anti-Christs heart 17:17 to destroy or Judge her. She is no more after Rev. 17:16. She was never Babylon, only rode the back of the Beast Systems. Babylon was always the very first empire in Daniel, the Golden Head, the Lion in Daniel. The First Beast System Daniel spoke of. This is why Babylon being destroyed, is the earth being judged. Everything in Chapter 17 implies an adulteress unto God, False Religion, being destroyed and judged. Everything in Rev. 18 implies the judgment of the Earth, or last Beast System that controls the worlds commerce and political powers that be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted July 17, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 267 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,205 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,497 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Author Share Posted July 17, 2016 Some good discussing here, bros. Now I am going out today, so will get back to you all later. regards, Marilyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus O'Reillius Posted July 18, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,050 Content Per Day: 0.36 Reputation: 632 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/29/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted July 18, 2016 For what it's worth: I too have thought of NYC as being th New Babylon. However, the wicked woman in the basket I have always associated with the false mother-son worship system that began in Babylon, which has come down to us through several incarnations of mythology through Caldean, Sumerian, Egyptian, Greek, and Roman cultures in all the various forms Ishtar has taken to its modern rendition with the deification of Mary via the Roman Catholic Church - the harlot of Revelation 17 who rides the beast that is embodied in Rome and Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eoreris Posted July 18, 2016 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 48 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/15/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 18, 2016 Just to skip all the drama scenarios here is what is going to happen. New york city-namely the compact skyscraper Manhattan is this (Great mystery city) It is also called spiritually Jerusalem (Given to the nations) From God to see what they (The nations-Gentiles) can do with it. It - for a good while was a golden cup in God,s hands.. The Dutch established the church in it.. It grew, it did pleasing to God for many years. But just like Israel it gives up to idolotry eventually.. human idols all on screens in it's square. To cut to it.s end.. The 2 witnesses walk it 1260 days... they leave... an Earthquake hits and kills 70,000 (Official greek is 7thousand,s - not 7 thousand) thus ruining the city from any recovery. A 10th of the cities skyscrapers fall.. Underground pipes explode deep and can never be repaired..Mid town is totally destroyed... The smoke is seen across the Atlantic as foreign container ship captains and crew (Know) this aint no 911 that can be recovered from.. So they stop their ships and sit still.. They wonder what to do.. Go to Mexico and try and sell their billion dollar cargo for a measly 100,000 dollars... No, that is not enough to even pay the fuel bill.. Instead they go crazy.. somehow they find dust to cast on their heads.. Soon after the destroying angels come.. 200 million of them.. interestingly enough there is exactly 200 million square miles on Earth.. one square mile for each destroying angel including every square mile of ocean and ice caps and wilderness areas without population.. These angels -seen as (UFO,s) by the World will kill one third of man by (Power) of fire and ordinance. (If you think this is 200 millon horesmen riding army tanks- like from China-then you do not need to read any further as your brain is the size of a grain of pepper) The Super power of the Great city (The US) will initiate a coalition of nations that will join together as a common unity against an alien threat. First introduced by the first beast who,s first name means (World ruler) - a blasphemous name... Upon the 7 heads- the (Name of blasphemy) that was wounded but lived.. (But is in the abyss now) but will come up and live in the 2nd beast who's first name also means (World rule) This man,s (Seat) is actually in the (Great city) with a high skyskaper.. And he is about to reign Reagan---UN speech "... when you stop to think that we're all God's children, wherever we may live in the world, I couldn't help but say to him, just think how easy his task and mine might be in these meetings that we held if suddenly there was a threat to this world from some other species from another planet outside in the universe. We'd forget all the little local differences that we have between our countries and we would find out once and for all that we really are all human beings here on this earth together" "In our obsession with antagonisms of the moment, we often forget how much unites all the members of humanity. Perhaps we need some outside, universal threat to make us recognize this common bond. I occasionally think how quickly our differences worldwide would vanish if we were facing an alien threat from outside this world" n 1988, President Ronald Reagan addressed the General Assembly of the United Nations. The speech has become known as his famous Disarmament speech. In this address, he postulated upon his "fantasy" of an alien species, from outside this world, invading Earth. Reagan thought that this would unite all humanity and tear down national borders. He also said that an alien force is already amongst us. Hear the audio portion of this speech above. If this were not remarkable itself, look at this. Before he gave the address, his speech writer, Rhett Dawson, removed his comments from Mr. Reagan's draft. Reagan insisted that he replace it. (THIS WILL HAPPEN) First the destroying angels come 200 million.. Their attacks cause the last beast to form a coalition of 10 nations armies (that volenteer) to try and fight the (invaders from another planet) Yes the people of Earth are so deceived they think this is what is happening too.. Then as these invaders (The 200 millon) locate to a certain location the Beast and his coalition think (We got em") They surround this area with the World,s armies, air forces, navy,s.. even packing nuclear cruise missiles.. But then Christ comes with his saints..(The rapture occurs at this exact moment) He sends forth a fire without even moving.. The armies are being burned.. The rest that are afar off melee in anger.. They pass over the great city general area fleeing and taking anything in the path and killing anyone not of them in order to survive they loot and kill and flee as they go. Some of them even make it to the Island areas of the Atlantic but God sends out destroying angels to vaporize them. Christ now rules all nations of (This) Earth with a literal rod of iron.. He then permanently destroys this Earth and the Beast his false prophet beast, The devil and all not written in his book of life from the foundation of the World -- and moves all with him to the (New) Earth that is 7 times larger with no oceans.. Each person saved into it will receive a plot of land bigger than the size of Texas and will be free to do anything they want and use all resources to their joy to make things and build things for all eternity.. There will be a new type of time.. All of the new Earth will come together in once a year to Worship the Son.. It will be like going to your favorite concert.. And He will give the best show ever and he will be worshiped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts