gerbilwoman Posted July 20, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,332 Content Per Day: 0.67 Reputation: 685 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/07/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted July 20, 2016 It depends on each liberal I think. If they are a good person and Christian overall, then yes, I think it's fine. Liberals views vary greatly. Somebody said liberals are okay with abortion. However, I myself am a liberal but only believe in abortion in extreme cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qnts2 Posted July 20, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,875 Content Per Day: 0.71 Reputation: 1,336 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/13/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted July 20, 2016 50 minutes ago, kwikphilly said: Yes Shiloh,I understand why it evolved & also YOUR intention but it has evolved into a debate irrelevant to the Topic at hand & the question the OP posed(see above post) which,I imagine, will not end anytime soon Ok, I now see that the original question was based on the idea that liberalism focuses on only one topic, abortion. Which of course is not true. But the intent was to discuss abortion and not liberalism. Also, he other issue brought up falls under a theology which is called Dominionism, which is a false theology which believes the laws must dictate that non-believers must act like Christians, which the bible says will not happen. It is supporting the old church/state system which resulted in many people who did not live like that particular church thought they should live, receiving the death penalty. It greatly damaged real Christianity in the eyes of many people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angels4u Posted July 20, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 56 Topic Count: 1,664 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 19,764 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 12,164 Days Won: 28 Joined: 08/22/2001 Status: Offline Share Posted July 20, 2016 5 minutes ago, kwikphilly said: Yes Angels,thank you.....great idea! Okay,you believe their decision can be based on one issue alone but you are still wording it as "voting liberal",if I ,as a Christian,vote on a liberal candidate for a specific reason that was important to me(which would not happen because the candidate has more than one matter to address & not just my one & only interest ) it does not make me a "liberal"....so I am still not sure of your answer Can a Christian BE liberal,in y our opinion Well Kwik, I'm not liberal but in some people's opinion I'm probably a little liberal,isn't everybody? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted July 20, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.88 Content Count: 43,795 Content Per Day: 6.21 Reputation: 11,243 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted July 20, 2016 1 hour ago, Qnts2 said: I think you need to read more. At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes of that year's produce and store it in your towns, so that the Levites (who have no allotment or inheritance of their own) and the aliens, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns may come and eat and be satisfied, and so that the Lord your God may bless you in all the work of your hands. (Dt 14:28-29) If there is a poor man among your brothers in any of the towns of the land that the Lord your God is giving you, do not be hardhearted or tightfisted toward your poor brother. Rather be openhanded and freely lend him whatever he needs. Be careful not to harbor this wicked thought: "The seventh year, the year for canceling debts, is near," so that you do not show ill will toward your needy brother and give him nothing. He may then appeal to the Lord against you, and you will be found guilty of sin. Give generously to him and do so without a grudging heart; then because of this the Lord your God will bless you in all your work and in everything you put your hand to. There will always be poor people in the land. Therefore I command you to be openhanded toward your brothers and toward the poor and needy in your land. (Dt 15:7-11) The second verse shows that when we lend to a poor person, do not be concerned if he will pay it back or not. Not everyone can work, or pay it back. In otherwords, mail him a check with no expectation of payback. Be willing to throw money at the need/problem. You are basing everything on the cheaters and caring little for the needy. So the needy are hurt to protect yourself against the frauds. Sorry, but that kind of system hurts everyone. In those verses it mentions canceling debts every 7 yrs. Do you do that? Do you advocate that the govt do that too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qnts2 Posted July 20, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,875 Content Per Day: 0.71 Reputation: 1,336 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/13/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted July 20, 2016 8 minutes ago, kwikphilly said: Yes Angels,thank you.....great idea! Okay,you believe their decision can be based on one issue alone but you are still wording it as "voting liberal",if I ,as a Christian,vote on a liberal candidate for a specific reason that was important to me(which would not happen because the candidate has more than one matter to address & not just my one & only interest ) it does not make me a "liberal"....so I am still not sure of your answer Can a Christian BE liberal,in y our opinion How do you define 'liberal'? For me, a Liberal, in a political sense, is a person who votes for candidates who are considered liberal. That vote is based on issues which are deemed most important but does not mean the person agrees with all possible 'liberal agendas'. Yes, a Christian can be liberal. Liberal is a very wide range of different views. Not all liberals see the same things as most important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qnts2 Posted July 20, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,875 Content Per Day: 0.71 Reputation: 1,336 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/13/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted July 20, 2016 1 minute ago, ayin jade said: In those verses it mentions canceling debts every 7 yrs. Do you do that? Do you advocate that the govt do that too? I am looking at the principle. In the law, at certain times, all outstanding debt was canceled. What that meant was that some people would not lend money at certain times (year of jubilee), because it was close to the time the debt would be cancelled. If a person needed a loan, but it would likely not be paid off by the 7th year, or the year of jubilee, people would not lend to that person. The idea is, take the risk for the person, and risk not receiving the money back. I have gone by the principal that when I lend money, I might not be repaid, so when that happens, so be it. I do not break friendship over money and all is forgiven. I start with the assumption, I will not get the money paid back. A man bought a house from me, and I gave a second mortgage for a portion. He later went bankrupt. I did not expect to receive the remaining money owed, and remained friends. When his bankruptcy was settled, he told his lawyer to pay the amount he owed me. The lawyer informed him, he did not have to, but he insisted. I guess it had something to do with us remaining friends and not going after him, in his rough time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted July 20, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,136 Content Per Day: 4.63 Reputation: 27,817 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted July 20, 2016 Quote Ok, I now see that the original question was based on the idea that liberalism focuses on only one topic, abortion. Which of course is not true. But the intent was to discuss abortion and not liberalism. posted by Qnts I have no idea how you came to that conclusion but I won't even go there,to me it is another means by w4hich this will result in an off topic debate but thank you for answering my original question Quote Well Kwik, I'm not liberal but in some people's opinion I'm probably a little liberal,isn't everybody? posted by Angels4U Hmmm,I suppose you're right,in the flesh probably not sure,I don't believe I am at all liberal,I don't know about a little bit,you could probably be a better judge of that for me,,,,,others can often see what we can't see in ourselves-lol Personally,I don't believe any person should vote soley based on party,they should vote for the person,,,,,usually "liberals" are pretty much(as someone said) anything goes ,,,,from a political perspective,as a Christian,there are far to many issues to be addressed & I would have to get a good sense of all their views before I would consider a liberal candidate I don't agree with most of the Democrats policies & lean towards Republicans,,,,,,still,if I disagree with the candidates ideas then I can't vote for them I still don't think voting has all to do with the question by the OP,I suppose for some it does Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qnts2 Posted July 20, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,875 Content Per Day: 0.71 Reputation: 1,336 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/13/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted July 20, 2016 32 minutes ago, kwikphilly said: I have no idea how you came to that conclusion but I won't even go there,to me it is another means by w4hich this will result in an off topic debate but thank you for answering my original question You referenced a post as trying to correct this thread which was focused on abortion. 1 hour ago, gerbilgirl said: It depends on each liberal I think. If they are a good person and Christian overall, then yes, I think it's fine. Liberals views vary greatly. Somebody said liberals are okay with abortion. However, I myself am a liberal but only believe in abortion in extreme cases. I consider myself a conservative leaning person but I also believe in abortion as a possible choice if the life of the mother is at risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK1110 Posted July 20, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 87 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 6,873 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 9,611 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/18/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/10/1986 Share Posted July 20, 2016 3 hours ago, Qnts2 said: There is a tax used to feed the poor. At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes of that year's produce and store it in your towns, so that the Levites (who have no allotment or inheritance of their own) and the aliens, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns may come and eat and be satisfied, and so that the Lord your God may bless you in all the work of your hands. (Dt 14:28-29) Our current system of welfare definitely has flaws but when caring for others, is it better to be so aware of cheaters that the law makes it harder on those with real needs? In my view, I would rather some cheaters slip by to make sure those who have a real need do not go hungry. The cheaters will be judged by God, but an overly tight fisted rule which harms the needed will be judged also. It is better to be more generous (higher taxes), to help the needed. I am going to assume that maybe 10% of the people in the U.S. are truly Christians. I am also going to assume that 10% of the people are poor and have real needs for food, etc. The few Christians are unable to support number of poor and are unable to locate all of the poor. That is why a central system is needed. I at one time was friends with a family with young children who had recently moved to our state. They found an apartment for themselves and 3 young children. The husband looked for a job but after several months had not yet found one. He was behind on his rent which was 1000 a month. And he had to wait to get federal assistance. I took him to some local churches to ask for some assistance with his rent. Two churches turned him down. The third church gave him $50. That was it. I did not have $1000 to give him. Thanks for the thoughtful reply. You've given me some new things to think and pray about. God bless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 3 hours ago, Qnts2 said: You speak of personal responsibility on the poor, but there is also a personal responsibility for everyone to support welfare for those in need having compassion. It is not compassion to call the poor lazy, freeloaders. I have no personal responsibility to support welfare. If YOU feel that you are not paying enough in taxes to support welfare recipients, then feel free to take out YOUR checkbook and writing a check to government and earmark it for Welfare. But I pay enough in taxes already. I am not interested in paying any more than I already do. And I am under no obligation to pay more. My taxes and my tithe go to help needy people already. I personally give to charities that I feel are worthy. I am not call of the poor lazy freeloaders, but there are poor who are. The fact that you are not willing to make that moral distinction is really deplorable and it also misrepresents my position, which you seem to be endeavoring to do in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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