Once saved always saved?

[woundeddog]

40 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

""When a righteous man doth turn from righteousness, and commit iniquity . . . HE SHALL DIE . . . Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doeth not sin, he shall surely live . . . When the righteous turneth way from righteousness, and committeth iniquity. . . . All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespasses, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in the SHALL HE DIE . . .for his iniquity that he hath done SHALL HE DIE" (Ezek. 3:20, 21; 18:24-34).

The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; NEITHER SHALL THE RIGHTEOUS BE ABLE TO LIVE for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth . . . HE SHALL DIE FOR IT . . . When the righteous turneth FROM HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS and comitteth iniquity HE SHALL EVEN DIE THEREBY" (EZEK. 33:12-20)

Such simple language does not need interpretation. These passages are GOD'S OWN WORDS and they prove a righteous man dies again when he sins and he will be lost if he dies in his sins. "Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book" (Exod. 32:30-35)

okay- one more try----------- it says he will die-- die----- the wages of sin is death----- if a man turns from righteaousness he will die----- Ananias and Sapphira  sinned a sin unto death- Paul talks about a sin unto death--- some times the Lord has to take us home early because we presist in sin---- these verses talk about DEATH-- not DAMnation

[HAZARD]

11 minutes ago, angels4u said:

Hazard, I didn't know you believe a person can lose his salvation, do you think as a born again Christian you will be able to commit those crimes?

 

I hope not, I pray each day thanking God for all I have and all he has done for me and my family. I do know that it is possible for a saved man to loose his salvation IF HE RETURNES TO SIN. The Bible is full of many examples so it is possible.

[HAZARD]

It is possible for saved men to "sin wilfully" and "despise the gospel and their former experiences (Heb. 10"26-31).

26, For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
    27, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
    28, He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
    29, Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
    30, For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
    31, It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Such men will receive "judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries," which is considered a "much sorer punishment" than destruction "without mercy," under the law of Moses.

He that overcometh . . .I WILL NOT BLOT OUT HIS NAME OUT OF THE BOOK OF LIFE" (Rev. 3:5; 22:18-19; Ex. 32:32-33; Psa. 69:28). If one does not overcome we can expect then, that his name will be blotted out of the book of life.

Ananias and Sapphira were both killed by the power of God because of covetousness and lying to the Holy Ghost (Acts 5:1-14)

1, But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
    2, And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
    3, But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to1 lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
    4, Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
    5, And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
    6, And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.
    7, And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.
    8, And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.
    9, Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.
    10, Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.
    11, And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things.
    12, And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; (and they were all with one accord in Solomon's porch.
    13, And of the rest durst no man join himself to them: but the people magnified them.
    14, And believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women.)

That they were once saved is clear from Acts 4:32 - 5:1, for Ananias and his wife were classed with "THE MULTITUDE OF THEM THAT BELIEVED" and "WERE OF ONE HEART AND SOUL" . . . as many as were posessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold and laid them at the apostles feet . . . But a certain man [of those who believed and were of one heart and soul] named Anaias, with Sepphira his wife, sold a possession."

If these two were believers, and had been saved and were in the church, then it cannot be disputed with any degree of honesty that they were once saved and then lost. To deny they were once saved is to deny truth and it is not worth the price one has to pay.

"Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world" (2 Tim. 4:10) . He was a preacher according to Col. 4:14; Philemon 24. He could no longer be a child of God and have the love of God in him when he loved the world, for "if any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him, for God is love and hecould not be in the life when love is not there (1 John 3:15; 4:8, 16).

[woundeddog]

well, I give up-- no sense talking anymore-- just keep the feebleminded in prayer so they dont get discouraged

[HAZARD]

54 minutes ago, woundeddog said:

okay- one more try----------- it says he will die-- die----- the wages of sin is death----- if a man turns from righteaousness he will die----- Ananias and Sapphira  sinned a sin unto death- Paul talks about a sin unto death--- some times the Lord has to take us home early because we presist in sin---- these verses talk about DEATH-- not DAMnation

Ananias and Sapphira were both killed by the power of God because of covetousness and lying to the Holy Ghost (Acts 5:1-14)

They sinned lied to the Holy Spirit, liars  will not enter heaven.  Rev 21:8, But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Matt. 5: 19, Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

1, But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
    2, And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
    3, But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to1 lie to the Holy Ghost,  and to keep back part of the price of the land?
    4, Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
    5, And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
    6, And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.
    7, And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.
    8, And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.
    9, Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.
    10, Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.
    11, And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things.
    12, And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; (and they were all with one accord in Solomon's porch.
    13, And of the rest durst no man join himself to them: but the people magnified them.
    14, And believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women.)

That they were once saved is clear from Acts 4:32 - 5:1, for Ananias and his wife were classed with "THE MULTITUDE OF THEM THAT BELIEVED" and "WERE OF ONE HEART AND SOUL" . . . as many as were posessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold and laid them at the apostles feet . . . But a certain man [of those who believed and were of one heart and soul] named Anaias, with Sepphira his wife, sold a possession."

If these two were believers, and had been saved and were in the church, then it cannot be disputed with any degree of honesty that they were once saved and then lost. To deny they were once saved is to deny truth and it is not worth the price one has to pay.

They both lied to the Holy Ghost and were killed and lost their eternal life. Liars do not enter God's kingdom, Rev. 21:18.

[HAZARD]

28 minutes ago, woundeddog said:

well, I give up-- no sense talking anymore-- just keep the feebleminded in prayer so they dont get discouraged

I hope that remark was not aimed at me, I am far from feebleminded I can assure you.

Don't give up, read my last post regarding Ananias and Sapphira. Sorry, I was looking up Scriptures and typing when you posted.

[woundeddog]

21 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

I hope that remark was not aimed at me, I am far from feebleminded

feebleminded-- KJV terminology for new young believers not grounded in the word of God--those that can be lead in the wrong direction concerning doctrine

[HAZARD]

1 hour ago, woundeddog said:

feebleminded-- KJV terminology for new young believers not grounded in the word of God--those that can be lead in the wrong direction concerning doctrine

Remember you wrote this,

"okay- one more try----------- it says he will die-- die----- the wages of sin is death----- if a man turns from righteaousness he will die----- Ananias and Sapphira  sinned a sin unto death- Paul talks about a sin unto death--- some times the Lord has to take us home early because we presist in sin---- these verses talk about DEATH-- not DAMnation "

If Ananias and Sapphira only died physically and not Spiritually for lying to the Holy Ghost, remembering;

(Rev 21:8, But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death).  . . . . . . Who were struck the dead by the Holy Spirit,  then the reward for lying to the Holy Spirit is death and straight to Heaven, despite Rev. 21:8, where God's Word says all liars end up in Hell, Is that what you believe?

If that's the case, instead of enduring to the end, especially in this cruel evil world, why don't, or maybe all believing saved again Christians could commit suicide and just go straight to Heaven?

[woundeddog]

10 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

If that's the case, instead of enduring to the end, especially in this cruel evil world, why don't, or maybe all believing saved again Christians could commit suicide and just go straight to Heaven?

Dear Hazard.

many people have tried to show you by scripture and explanation why eternal security is such an important doctrine.

I cant read your heart and don't know why you have trouble seeing and believing it-

further discussion is pointless-- I am awarding this conversation the DEAD HORSE AWARD

[HAZARD]

51 minutes ago, PatrolMan said:

So, all angels are lost. Where do you get this stuff?  Blaspheme the Holy ghost and tell me you are saved.

DONT ACCUSE ME OF BLASPHEMING THE HOLY GHOST. WHO SAID ALL ANGELS ARE LOST? Where did you get that stuff? I said "ONE THIRD" of God's angels rebelled with Satan.

Here is what I wrote, the first line of my post;

"Lucifer convinced one third of Gods innumerable angels to rebel with him."

ONE THIRD IS NOT ALL IN MY BOOK OR THE BIBLE! Do read any of what is written or just jump to conclusions? You need to apologise for that statement.

Satan, who was once the most perfect angelic creation, and arc angel, (1 Chron. 21:1; Job 1:6-12; 2:1-7; Ezek. 28:11-17; Matt. 4:1-11; Pet. 5:8-9; Rev. 12:7-12; 20:1-10; Eph. 2:1-3; 2 Cor. 4;4; John 12:31).

FALLEN ANGELS, (Matt. 25:41; Eph. 1;21; 3:10; 6:10-17; Rev. 12:7-12).

DEMONS, (Matt. 4:23-24; 10:1-7; 12:22-32; mark 5; 1 Tim. 4:1; 1 John 4:1-6).