Once saved always saved?

[woundeddog]

1 hour ago, RealPresence said:

Wrong.
James was talking about the importance of WORKS and OBEDIENCE of faith.

Faith without works doesn't exist - any more than water without hydrogen.

see that's the problem- I don't think you are understanding what is happening in James- you have mixed up 2 completely different topics--  "Faith with out works is dead" means that your life style shows you have faith. if you are not living a transformed life- you do not have saving faith"-- the works do not bring salvation, they just verify that you have saving faith.  ( basically to paraphrase he is saying- any one can claim faith, but I can tell if you have real faith by the way you live) The second Topic was Jews saying they believe in one god they where monotheistic, James said its not enough just to believe in one god- the Devils do that- he was talking about the importance of believing in Christ-( the Trinity) which the Jews rejected.

 

My friend- we have to rightly divide the word of God and look at it for what God is really saying

[woundeddog]

I guess I am going to give this topic my "DEAD HORSE AWARD" RP seems to be firmly ensconced in Jesuit Theology and I am afraid is devoid of proper exegesis so to exchange scripture is pointless. One comment that I think still needs to be touched on was RPs statement about hating the Catholic Church. As clarification, I do not hate Folks that profess the Roman Catholic doctrine-- I love them and pray for many of them on a regular basis. but he is right, I hate the organization known as the Catholic Church, its doctrines have lead countless numbers of souls away from saving faith on Jesus Christ- As the biblical narration goes if the watchman sounds the warning and the city heeds it, it will be safe- but if the watchman sounds the warning and it does not heed- their blood is on their own hands, and RP, I have sounded the warning so its up to you to heed or not

[RealPresence]

9 hours ago, woundeddog said:

Oh, so I guess you are Calling the Apostle Paul ignorant and self-righteous?

1 Corinthians 2:14

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

No - Paul didn't say anything ignorant - YOU did.  YOU said that people had to be indwelt with the Holy Spirit to understand Scripture - and that is patently FALSE.
Millions of people have come to the Lord because of something they read in Scripture.

Paul says nothing here about the initial grace of faith - which is what people receive when they first come to God.

[RealPresence]

8 hours ago, woundeddog said:

see that's the problem- I don't think you are understanding what is happening in James- you have mixed up 2 completely different topics--  "Faith with out works is dead" means that your life style shows you have faith. if you are not living a transformed life- you do not have saving faith"-- the works do not bring salvation, they just verify that you have saving faith.  ( basically to paraphrase he is saying- any one can claim faith, but I can tell if you have real faith by the way you live) The second Topic was Jews saying they believe in one god they where monotheistic, James said its not enough just to believe in one god- the Devils do that- he was talking about the importance of believing in Christ-( the Trinity) which the Jews rejected.

My friend- we have to rightly divide the word of God and look at it for what God is really saying

You're absolutely correct - we DO have to rightly divide the Scriptures.
Unfortunately, you've bought into this false Protestant version of faith.

In James 2, he is talking about the absolute absence of faith that doesn't have works.  Jesus preached about the very SAME thing in the lesson of the Sheep and the Goats (Matthew 25:31-46).  He illustrated that we WON'T be saved by our belief - but by how we PRACTICED that belief.  The ones that make it into heaven are the DOERS of the Word NOT the the hearers (James 1:22).

It's not about "earning" our way into Heaven as many Protestants falsely assert.

[RealPresence]

8 hours ago, Yowm said:

Then I guess perfection is a free gift...

Galatians 3:22 KJVS
[22] But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Romans 5:15-17 KJVS
[15] But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. [16] And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. [17] For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Maybe you should Google the word GIFT.

 

Soooooo . . . YOU'RE perfect??
You really thing that you are perfect??

If that's the case - you are espousing a belief that I have never heard from a Protestant.
BUT - like ALL Protestantism, you may have just splintered of into your own belief system . . .

[RealPresence]

19 minutes ago, Yowm said:

It's called 'imputed righteousness' a 'perfect' righteousness not our own but credited to our account through faith. If you knew anything about the Reformation you would know  that much. He declares us righteous (justifies us) on account of Christ's obedience...not ours...a free gift indeed .

And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works: "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin."
(Rom 4:5-8)

 

Ahhh, yes – the heretical Protestant invention of “imputed righteousness”.
Too bad, the Bible squashes that false belief.

God is not an idiot who can be fooled by us sneaking into Heaven “covered” with the righteousness of Christ.  We are MADE righteous.

-  Psalm 14:5 says that God makes His dwelling in the com[any of the RIGHTEOUS.

-  Rom. 3:22 states emphatically that the righteousness of Christ has been GIVEN to those who have faith.

-  2 Cor. 5:21 says in no uncertain terms, “God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might BECOME the righteousness of God.”

Nothing here about imputation or being “covered”.

You can’t trick God. Rev. 21:27 says that NOTHING unclean or impure can enter Heaven – not even Luther’s “snow-covered dunghills” . . .

[RealPresence]

9 minutes ago, Yowm said:

God first robes His children with Christ's righteousness (justification) and then in this life begins the  work of perfecting His children (sanctification) which continues until we receive our new bodies (perfection). It really isn't rocket science.

It's also not Scriptural . . .

[woundeddog]

7 hours ago, RealPresence said:

No - Paul didn't say anything ignorant - YOU did.  YOU said that people had to be indwelt with the Holy Spirit to understand Scripture - and that is patently FALSE.

you are obviously not looking at what that verse says- understanding scripture is not something the natural man can do-- a person can read a verse and think they know what it means- but they totally miss the spiritual meaning of the verse. The classic example are verses that you think show works are necessary for salvation-- that is a fleshly interpretation of the verse-- the Spiritual meaning clearly shows that the works are the product of a saving faith-- you wouldn't understand that unless the Holy Spirit is illuminating your heart and mind. The beauty of OSAS can only be understood by the power of the Holy Spirit- with out his guidance it makes no sense and seems like heresy

[RealPresence]

16 minutes ago, woundeddog said:

you are obviously not looking at what that verse says- understanding scripture is not something the natural man can do-- a person can read a verse and think they know what it means- but they totally miss the spiritual meaning of the verse. The classic example are verses that you think show works are necessary for salvation-- that is a fleshly interpretation of the verse-- the Spiritual meaning clearly shows that the works are the product of a saving faith-- you wouldn't understand that unless the Holy Spirit is illuminating your heart and mind. The beauty of OSAS can only be understood by the power of the Holy Spirit- with out his guidance it makes no sense and seems like heresy

Wrong.

God can and DOES give unbelievers who are seeking the truth the grace to understand Scripture - whether it is one verse or multiple verses.
This is how MILLIONS of people have come to the Lord over the centuries.

And, as for OSAS - it  sounds like heresy because it IS heresy - and is not taught by the context of Scripture.
Context is NOT your friend . . .

 

[woundeddog]

20 minutes ago, RealPresence said:

Wrong.

God can and DOES give unbelievers who are seeking the truth the grace to understand Scripture - whether it is one verse or multiple verses.
This is how MILLIONS of people have come to the Lord over the centuries.

And, as for OSAS - it  sounds like heresy because it IS heresy - and is not taught by the context of Scripture.
Context is NOT your friend . .

Real- you have proved my point