It is not in the Bible ?

[Hoddie]

On Saturday, August 20, 2016 at 0:24 PM, Davida said:

With respect, Hoddie,  I would like you to tell me,  given our discussion we've been having ,  thanks ahead of time!  ---Tell me, define , describe , illuminate me from your perspective,  what is "the Holy See" and  please give me the scriptural basis for it.

Hey Davida! Sorry about not getting back to you sooner, but it's been pretty hectic here at my place the past week. We had are annual family renunion this past week, and I'm am one of the organizers. (activity director) I love my family and all, but trying to organize activites for over 200 family members from all over the U.S. and Germany can really put a strain on me. But you know.... I'll do it all over again next year! Do you have a large family?

Now as for our discussion, I am looking forward to it. However, if you recall, a page or two back I asked your view on Sola Scriptura and you never got back to me on it. I asked if you beleive that the bible alone (Sola Scriptura) is sufficient as a sole rule of faith, remember? I am more than than happy to address your questions reguarding the Holy See, but to further on in our discussion, I feel that knowing where you stand on the Protestant doctrine of Sola Scriptura is highly paramount.

　

Peace

[Hoddie]

On Saturday, August 20, 2016 at 11:55 AM, missmuffet said:

Anti Catholic? It is a reputable Christian Ministry on the internet.

Your kidding ... right? If you're not, by who's authority is it that determines this site to be a "reputable Christian ministry?"

If they are anti Catholic they are only telling the truth.

Oh....you mean just like the Jack Chick tracts? I think not, just like Jack Chick, they are far from it!

Peace

[Hoddie]

On Saturday, August 20, 2016 at 3:41 PM, ayin jade said:

A rose by any other name still stinks.

With all due respect ayin jade, I see this as nothing more than an impotent responce with nothing to back it up.

And quite frankly, I feel that it is a disservice to Jesus' mother. How would you feel if someone were to talk about your mother in this manner?

 

 

Peace

[Hoddie]

52 minutes ago, Davida said:

Sola Scriptura -- the Word is the all sufficient truth. 

Could you please post the book chapter and verse from Scripture that makes this claim?

 

Peace

[Hoddie]

38 minutes ago, Davida said:

But why Hoddie?  since it's been proven that the RCC ignores the Word of GOD when it is the inconvenient Truth and prefers to make up their own divine hierarchy,  rituals, dogma and write special mythology about Mary apart from the Word , right?

Proven? where has it been proven?

 

Peace

[Ezra]

10 minutes ago, Hoddie said:

Proven? where has it been proven?

Where would you like the false doctrines and false practices of the RCC to be proven? What proof are you prepared to accept? Rather than trying to support and promote false Christianity, you should be studying the Word of God to determine the truth.

[Guest Thallasa]

29 minutes ago, Davida said:

The Word of GOD's  SUFFICIENT  Word - Grace To You ( Gty.org) ,  Pastor John MacArthur  http://www.gty.org/blog/B140915

"Jesus illustrated the desperate, hopeless search for truth in human wisdom when He said to a group of unbelievers:

Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word. You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature; for he is a liar, and the father of lies. But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me. . . . He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God. (John 8:43–47)

By way of contrast, believers have the truth about everything that really matters. What an enormous privilege to possess the Word of truth!

Because Scripture is true it is “righteous altogether” (Psalm 19:9). The implication of that phrase is that its truthfulness produces a comprehensive righteousness in those who accept it. And because it is a complete and exhaustive source of truth and righteousness, we are forbidden to add to it, take from it, or distort it in any way (Deuteronomy 4:2; 2 Peter 3:15–16; Revelation 22:18–19).

Contrary to what many are teaching today, there is no need for additional revelations, visions, or words of prophecy. In contrast to the theories of men, God’s Word is true and absolutely comprehensive. Rather than seeking something more than God’s glorious revelation, Christians need only to study and obey what they already have!"

 

On ‎15‎/‎08‎/‎2016 at 4:33 PM, Davida said:

 Hoddie, I write this with a troubled heart for you and to expose you to the Truth that is written in the Bible.  I have family whose souls's & hearts are imprisoned by the RCC and I write this for them too that they would come to accept & understand what is written in the Bible and not be lead astray by traditions of men & false doctrines.  The answer to your question Hoddie is that the Bible clearly shows Jesus did NEVER directed or implied to his followers or disciples to give his mother any praise, honor or adoration. NONE OF THAT RCC dogma IS IN THE SCRIPTURES. Try just reading the KJV not the catholic bible.  The mary teaching has been added and is heresy and idolotry.

This is the crux of the problem right there--Clearly, as scripture shows  The LORD GOD never, never, never sanctioned any worship or devotion to Mary. You have been taught to read into the brief scripture the wrong meaning & because of yrs of indoctrination & reading heretical catholic writings . 

The mother of the Lord Jesus was described as "blessed" only because she bore the baby Jesus--not because of her pure attributes or sinlessness. The RCC has written volumes of false descriptions of Mary to justify the dogma surrounding her.  It is blasphemous these writings, and the statues dedicated to her, the invocations, salutations,  prayers and rosary beads dedicated to her. Really , man, c'mon I pray you will see the GODLY Holy truth here --this is nothing but another Gospel, it is idolatry, how can it be anything less?   The Heresy of Mary worship is a false doctrine/dogma & it amounts to an insult to GOD and an attack upon the Word of God and an attack upon the deity of the Lord Jesus Christ. It places the RCC Traditions of Error which are added to the Bible and built up by RCC to lead people away from the inerrant Word of God and the GOD the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and HIS HOLY Sovereignty, Heavenly Authority & Glory which HE does not share--Period.    All attempts to place Jesus mother in the monarchy of heaven & as co-redemptress, co-redeemer and is the act of Stealing worship, honour and glory from the Most High GOD & His Son our Savior Lord Jesus Christ.  I will ask you according to God's Holy Bible, who is the person described in scripture that the Bible tells us attempts to usurp GOD's Power, twist scripture to confuse & attempts to usurp God's authority and tries to steal worship from the LORD GOD and continually attacks GOD's Truth & His followers?

I find more and more the errors of a certain kind of idolatry of the bible more and more dangerous and divisive ,to the point that it completely and utterly destroys the main purpose of God's desire to to elevate the minds and hearts of His people . It is like being in a war zone, where the people who follow this idea,  haggling over every single detail , round and round you go , totally miss the point of God's plan  . 

You miss the whole point -because  facing the truth of where the true Evil comes from, is to be avoided at all costs ,and by concentrating on what is an annoying, but relatively harmless devtion to Mary ,you can divert elsewhere ,away from the truth of the real  false religion . 

[coheir]

1 Timothy 6:3 - If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, [even] the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;

[Hoddie]

2 hours ago, Yowm said:

Let's just say 'sufficient'...

Yes... lets do. I relize many such as yourslf make the claim that 2 Tim. 3:16–17 claims Scripture is sufficient as a rule of faith. But an examination of the verse in context shows that it doesn’t claim that at all; it only claims Scripture is "profitable" (Greek: ophelimos) that is, helpful. Many things can be profitable for moving one toward a goal, without being sufficient in getting one to the goal. Notice that the passage nowhere even hints that Scripture is "sufficient."

　

2 Timothy 3:15-17 KJVS

The context of 2 Tim. 3:16–17 is Paul laying down a guideline for Timothy to make use of Scripture and tradition in his ministry as a bishop. Paul says, "But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; and that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God (Greek: theopneustos = "God-breathed"), and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works" (2 Tim. 3:14–17). In verse 14, Timothy is initially exhorted to hold to the oral teachings—the traditions—that he received from the apostle Paul. This echoes Paul’s reminder of the value of oral tradition in 1:13–14, "Follow the pattern of the sound words which you haveheard from me, in the faith and love which are in Christ Jesus; guard the truth that has been entrusted to you by the Holy Spirit who dwells within us" (RSV), and ". . . what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also" (2:2). Here Paul refers exclusively to oral teaching and reminds Timothy to follow that as the "pattern" for his own teaching (1:13). Only after this is Scripture mentioned as "profitable" for Timothy’s ministry.

　

And if Scripture is sufficient no man made system need be added.

You see, thats were your problen is, nowhere does the Bible teach sola scriptura. Even "gotquestions.org", the site that missmuffet claims to be a "reputable Christian Ministry" on the web agrees with what they call the "primary Catholic argument against sola scriptura" – that nowhere does the Bible teach sola scriptura. Even taken at its most literalist form, 2 Tim. 3:14-17 lucent support for sola scriptura that the doctrine demands.

Does it clearly teach that Scripture teaches all things necessary for salvation and life? No, it merely shows that Scripture is instructive (it can make one wise) for salvation. Does it teach that no doctrine may be addedto the plain teachings of Scripture, or that no doctrine outside such plain teachings may be believed? No, it does not speak to anything outside Scripture at all. This passage, like the other passages, fails to teach plainly or necessarily the doctrines and claims that Protestants make about scriptural authority.

　

Not only that, there is another problem with the use of 2 Tim.3:15-17 as a text that supports the dogma of Sola Scriptura. If 2 Tim 3:16 supports anything along the lines of Sola Scriptura, then it supports Sola Old Testament Scriptura. The scripture Paul is talking about with Timothy, that Timothy has known since "childhood," is the Old Testament scripture. Even though Timothy was relatively young, in his childhood he would have had only the Old Testament and possibly…possibly…a few of the books of the New Testament, wouldn't you agree? So, if 2 Tim 3:16 is supporting Sola Scriptura, then what it is saying is that only part of the Bible is necessary, since most of the New Testament had not yet been written when Timothy was in his childhood, correct?

　

Peace

[Hoddie]

2 hours ago, Davida said:

The Word of GOD's  SUFFICIENT  Word - Grace To You ( Gty.org) ,  Pastor John MacArthur  http://www.gty.org/blog/B140915

"Jesus illustrated the desperate, hopeless search for truth in human wisdom when He said to a group of unbelievers:

Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word. You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature; for he is a liar, and the father of lies. But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me. . . . He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God. (John 8:43–47)

By way of contrast, believers have the truth about everything that really matters. What an enormous privilege to possess the Word of truth!

Because Scripture is true it is “righteous altogether” (Psalm 19:9). The implication of that phrase is that its truthfulness produces a comprehensive righteousness in those who accept it. And because it is a complete and exhaustive source of truth and righteousness, we are forbidden to add to it, take from it, or distort it in any way (Deuteronomy 4:2; 2 Peter 3:15–16; Revelation 22:18–19).

Contrary to what many are teaching today, there is no need for additional revelations, visions, or words of prophecy. In contrast to the theories of men, God’s Word is true and absolutely comprehensive. Rather than seeking something more than God’s glorious revelation, Christians need only to study and obey what they already have!"

This is an interesting article, but I have to ask, do you beleive Pastor John McArthur's teachings and interpretations of these passages to be infallible?

I would also like to ask Pastor John (or maybe you'd like to answer for me) a couple of questions, like.... When was the doctrine of sola scriptura taught in the Early Church, and by whom? Did Jesus teach it? Did the Apostles? Is it something Christians were supposed to have figured out for themselves by Scripture alone? If the doctrine was part of the teachings of Christ and the Apostles, how would it have been presented? “After we are gone, your only authority and rule of faith is to be Scripture”? “You are not to accept any doctrine not found in Scripture”? If that is to be our rule of faith, why isn't it in Scripture?

Peace