The Addiction that is Costing Christians their Freedom? {Control}

[GoldenEagle]

On August 16, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Willa said:

Most of the pastors I have seen that rant against sin have personal struggles against sin and almost seem to be pointing the finger without first examining their own lives.

Case in point was Jimmy Swaggert.  I would immediately turn him off because it was not the Holy Spirit working.   In the New Testament we see a lot of do nots, but rather do this.  It points the way to how to overcome by repenting and then focusing on Christ and what He does want us to do.  

To me the best preaching teaches through a whole book of the Bible, stopping to cross reference and explain background and customs as well.  So it covers the don'ts just as stated in the Bible but does not dwell there.  It provides a balance of encouragement.  

1Co 6:9  Or don’t you know that the unrighteous will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Don’t be deceived. Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor male prostitutes, nor homosexuals,  1Co 6:10  nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor slanderers, nor extortionists, will inherit God’s Kingdom.

1Co 6:11  Such were some of you, but you were washed. But you were sanctified. But you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and in the Spirit of our God.  1Co 6:12  “All things are lawful for me,” but not all things are expedient. “All things are lawful for me,” but I will not be brought under the power of anything.

This passage plainly teaches that those who practice evil and identify with it will not go to heaven.  It also shows that we can be delivered from the grasp of evil.  Christ sets us free.  Too often preachers go on and on about evil without glorifying God and showing that He triumphs over it.  They dwell on sin.  

When pastors stick to the scriptures they don't get sidetracked on their own opinions of "don'ts".  They are not telling us to stop playing cards or listening to Tchaikovsky as I have heard in the past.  This is where they get controlling.  If the Bible doesn't say it is sin, I ignore the advice.  Moreover, I won't stay in a church where a pastor adds to Scripture or is caught up in self righteous attitudes for abstaining from more things than I do.  The pastors who are self righteous are doing a lot of harm.  Those who come along side us and compassionately pray for us in our struggles are showing Christ's love.  This is the Jesus who said, he who is without sin among you cast the first stone. 

I think you hit the nail on the head. If people (or teachers) dwell on sin instead of the Gospel and God's triumph through Jesus over sin they miss the mark. Praise God for his grace, mercy and love!

I agree preaching through the entire Bible and through books at a time is the way to go.   

There's also a tendency to create a list of dos and don'ts. It's a form of control.

God bless,

GE

[Guest Thallasa]

On ‎16‎/‎08‎/‎2016 at 4:42 PM, nebula said:

The problem, though, is in how you confront  someone.

I had a situation where my pastor confronted me about a behavior. When I explained to him my struggle that was behind the behavior, he didn't care; he just wanted the behavior to cease and desist. Instead of ministering to my hurt, struggles, and/or insecurities, instead of suggesting some guidelines to work through my struggles, instead of considering perhaps another woman in the church who could talk with me and help me, he basically stood strong in his determination that he was going to have me comply then and there.

Do you supposed I felt loved at that moment?

Do you suppose I felt as if his concern was for me or for himself and maintaining proper appearances?

You have hit upon one of the most pernicious aspects of Church life ,and why so many souls walk away now, and did in the past  . They are like 'prison guards and lacking in themselves the Holiness and Love from God they persecute and damn the people they are supposed to care for . Of course in the case of unrepentant  and or openly bad behaviour one must accept correction -even so it can be done in a way which teaches and leads as opposed to being destructive . God Bless ,TH.

[Ezra]

2 hours ago, GoldenEagle said:

While we are accountable to each other we cannot and should not act as the Holy Spirit in others lives would you agree?

I would agree that a Christian cannot usurp the role of the Holy Spirit in guiding, directing, convincing and convicting other Christians.

Having said that we need to be clear that today buzzwords which originate in the secular liberal systems of society are being adopted by Christians. Words like "addiction", "control", "boundaries" etc. are being applied to spiritual matters. To apply the term "addiction" with a broad brush to "the Church" is not how this matter can be discussed. The difference between the Church as the Body of Christ and churches of various stripes must always be recognized.

What needs to be clearly understood as Bible truth is that Christians are to become disciples, and in order to be disciples they need to be discipled.  There is also such a thing as church discipline (for those who are out of line), and to call that "control" is nonsensical.  There is also such a thing as God-given authority within the local church, and to reject that authority as "control" is  also unacceptable to God and to men.  

While SOME Christians may abuse their roles or their authority, that is a separate issue. But lumping everything together and saying "the Church" is responsible for improper attitudes or behaviors is wrong.  So if a person does not present a proper balance of Bible doctrine versus faulty practice, then they had better refrain from criticism.  An unbeliever reading a rant will simply be turned off by Christianity.

[Marilyn C]

4 hours ago, GoldenEagle said:

Hiya Marilyn,

I don't see how you can separate the Church organization from the Church organism? 

Are you saying organized churches are not controlled by God's Holy Spirit?

I don't follow at all here   

I think both the individuals leading the religious institution of the Church and the body of Believers that make up the local church struggle with pride, control, etc. 

God bless,

GE

Hi GoldenEagle,

Thank you for getting back to me. Now that is a very good comment as many people also find it difficult to separate the two - organisation & Body of Christ.

Here are some answers -

1. Christ is returning for the Body of Christ not  the organisations.

2. The organisation, with the buildings, rules & regulations, the power structure that comes with that, are all of man, while the Body of Christ is a living organism of believers, by the Holy Spirit, across the world.

3. The authority of the organisation & the Body of Christ are quite different. For example - if you are in an organisation`s meeting you have to obey the leader`s rules & authority - for legal reasons. However if you met that leader down the street those rules would not apply to you, only in the building.

When you have a legal organisation then that organisation owns the buildings, the furniture, controls the times of meetings & how they are run & what beliefs are taught. It is controlled by man & thus limited.

However the Body of Christ can meet anywhere without being connected to the legal system of man. The leadership will be recognised by gifting & character & received whether in a gathering or down the street having a coffee.

4. The organisation beliefs, especially in error, will go through the whole organisation of perhaps millions of people. The Body of Christ however not connected to man`s organisation can have error but it will be confined to a small area as others don`t have to believe the error. Then also, when revelation comes, (clarification of truth) then this can easily flow through the Body of Christ by relationships & is not hindered by central control in an organisation which tries to maintain its beliefs & not receive further clarification by the Holy Spirit.

5. Also because the organisation owns property etc it then has to maintain these, update, enlarge etc & this funnels money into perishable areas where really it should be used to help those in need, etc.  

6. Finally, & very importantly, we are now seeing that man`s organisations are joining with the world system & turning away from their basic belief in the Lord - Apostasy.

regards, Marilyn.

[GoldenEagle]

On August 18, 2016 at 3:19 PM, Butero said:

Paul was coming against sins members of the church were committing.  You could say he was trying to control behavior.  If they wanted to commit sexual sins, who could stop them, so why try?  What was Paul's motivation?  Was he prideful or controlling?  That is the point. 

Was Paul in 1 Corinthians 5 (sorry I mistyped chapter 15 previously) controlling people's behavior or exhorting people to follow Biblical discipline such as determined by Jesus in Matthew 18:15-20? 

 

and 

God bless,

GE

[GoldenEagle]

On August 18, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Thallasa said:

You @nebula have hit upon one of the most pernicious aspects of Church life ,and why so many souls walk away now, and did in the past  . They are like 'prison guards and lacking in themselves the Holiness and Love from God they persecute and damn the people they are supposed to care for . Of course in the case of unrepentant  and or openly bad behaviour one must accept correction -even so it can be done in a way which teaches and leads as opposed to being destructive . God Bless ,TH.

Sometimes people care more about being right and winning the argument than winning the person? 

How does one correct and teach in a manner that doesn't result in destructive behavior?

God bless,

GE

[other one]

13 minutes ago, GoldenEagle said:

Sometimes people care more about being right and winning the argument than winning the person? 

How does one correct and teach in a manner that doesn't result in destructive behavior?

God bless,

GE

by expressing what you believe is the truth and letting the Holy Spirit tell them they are wrong....   it's almost never productive to tell someone they are wrong.

[Guest Thallasa]

On ‎21‎/‎08‎/‎2016 at 3:30 PM, GoldenEagle said:

Sometimes people care more about being right and winning the argument than winning the person? 

How does one correct and teach in a manner that doesn't result in destructive behavior?

God bless,

GE

Well in school I would turn the tables on rules, and ask pupils to make their own rules for 'living in school for a time .We would after a time discuss which ones worked and which ones did'nt ,and why .

Also such things needing or not needing people in charge etc. Gods laws are Logical and should be discussed in a democratic manner . There is far too much emphasis on a God who makes laws without us asking WHY ? Unlike many, I think everything He does has a purpose towards ordered creativeness ,.   

Edited August 22, 2016 by Thallasa

[Guest Thallasa]

6 hours ago, GoldenEagle said:

Sometimes people care more about being right and winning the argument than winning the person? 

How does one correct and teach in a manner that doesn't result in destructive behavior?

God bless,

GE

By not being so fearful . This is something I see more in American people than in Europeans where society is more supportive .This allows for a more listening environment ,less panic in general . It therefore is partly cultural . There is less competitiveness ,and more cooperation .

[Ezra]

5 hours ago, Thallasa said:

There is far too much emphasis on a God who makes laws without us asking WHY ?

Well you partly answered your own question -- "ordered creativeness".  But that is not the primary reason. Laws prevent chaos and maintain order in the universe.

God's laws are embedded into the universe as natural (physical, chemical, biological, etc.), as well as mental, moral and spiritual laws. These laws are all ultimately beneficial, but violation of God's laws leads to disasters, destruction, and death.

The Lord Jesus Christ has placed before us the two greatest spiritual laws, which can be distilled into one word -- AGAPE. It is rightly translated as charity, and also love. But the application of this law demands that the flesh be crucified.  And too many rebel against this requirement.