What do you think about Boundaries?

[Running Gator]

33 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

I think on the bottom I copied the address.

You rely heavily on that site, what do you know of the people who are supplying the answers?  Do you take the time to follow all the references they give to see if they are really saying what this site says they are?

[Openly Curious]

GE

What do you think about boundaries now that you have read the book?  

What advice or counsel was given by the author of the book that would not be found in the bible?  

For the bible sets boundaries for believers to follow concerning our body, soul and spirit.  The bible gives the believers instructions or counsel in godly living.  

The world gives counsel but does not include the will of God it is worldly or earthly advice.  It can be useful at times as we live in the world but are not of this world.  But the natural mind does not understand the things of the spirit therefore we must as believers rely upon the Word of God.  As man does not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.

[GoldenEagle]

2 hours ago, Ezra said:

GE,

No I have not read that book, since there is really no need to do so.  And yes, strictly biblical counseling by godly spiritual leaders (pastors and elders within the context of a local church) is what the Lord expects.  If they want to use the term nouthetic, then that's fine.

If Christians desire wisdom, they have not only the wisdom books in Scripture and the teachings of Christ and the apostles, but also the promise that those who ask God for wisdom will receive it in generous doses (James 1:5-8).

That is one position on counseling for sure "strictly Biblical counseling by godly spiritual leaders". But not the only one. I'm curious where do you get the idea that this particular type of Christian counseling is what the Lord expects? What passages of the Bible lead you to that conclusion? 

Nouthetic counselors and Biblical counselors are the same vein of thought in Christian Counseling. However, it is just one of the 5 categories of modern day Christian counseling. So we are not talking over each other and we understand each other's perspective I will summarize:

In a classic article written for Christianity Today in 1975, Gary Collins suggested that today’s Christian counselors fall into five categories. 

1. The Main Stream Pastoral Counselors. Main stream pastoral counselors generally have taken Clinical Pastoral Education training (CPE for short). The CPE approach takes a pastor with a theological education through an essentially "secular" training program in counseling. The tendency is towards theologically liberal stances and antagonistic toward more conservative evangelical theology. Evangelicals have increasingly steered away from the clinical pastoral education movement.

2. Evangelical Pastoral Counselors. The most outspoken of such counselors is Jay Adams, professor of practical theology at Westminster Seminary. Adams advocates Biblical Counseling, in which only the bible is used to support a counseling approach that is primarily educational and confrontational. Seminaries have strongly embraced the evangelical pastoral counseling movement in counseling. (Also known as Nouthetic Counseling.) 

3. Christian Professionals. Examples of the Christian professionals would include Clyde Narramore (considered to be the father of Christian counseling), James Dobson, Bruce Narramore, Frank Minority, Paul Meier, and Gary Collins. The Christian professionals have been trained and have received degrees and credentials in the secular counseling approaches, but who also have a strong commitment to Biblical evangelical theology. Each of these counselors have developed a model for integrating their knowledge and skills from the field of psychology with Biblical truth. Seminaries have also strongly embraced the Christian Professional movement in counseling. Many seminaries have developed masters and doctoral programs integrating both theology and the practice of psychology and counseling. (What I typically think of and will refer to as Christian Counselors.)

4. Theoretician Researchers. The theoretician researchers are those who have taken a scientific, scholarly, and research approach. These are generally university professors who are in the process of developing and testing theories. 

5. Evangelical popularizers. The evangelical popularizers would include Tim LaHay, Charlie Shedd, and Norman Wright. The evangelical popularizers produce useful but simplistic self help material for the lay public.

Edited and summarized from this article: http://christianfamilyinstitute.com/are-there-different-types-of-christian-counseling/

Thoughts on these 5 perspectives by Gary Collins?

God bless,
GE

[GoldenEagle]

Since Gary Collins article from 1975 in Christianity Today, in 1977 Lawrence J. Crabb suggested there are 4 positions on Christian counseling. Again, so we are not talking over each other and we understand each other's perspective I will summarize:

A. Separate but Equal. The bible and theology are considered valid in the areas in which they speak, and psychology is considered valid in the area in which it speaks.

B. Tossed salad. Crabb suggests that this approach is like a salad bowl in which a variety of ingredients are thrown into the bowl and tossed about. The problem with the tossed salad approach is that psychological notions are often accepted uncritically and without an understanding of the conflicting world views (i.e., humanism, existentialism, modernism, etc.) which are often represented in psychology. Consequently a number of unbiblical ideas may creep into this counseling.

C. Nothing buttery. In this approach the Christian counselor accepts nothing but the scripture as the basis for Christian counseling. The writing of Jay Adams would fall in to this category. Adams suggests that psychology has nothing to offer the Christian counselor, and psychology is always in conflict with biblical ideas. If one is true to this position there is never a need to study any counseling approaches, medicine or psychology.

D. Spoiling the Egyptians. In this approach the Christian counselor is first thoroughly grounded in the Word of God. Just as God made provision for the Israelites carried out of Egypt the spoils the Christian counselor critiques the findings of modern psychology and takes from them tools which are consistent with our Biblical world view. The Word of God is absolute in authority, and the only truly and fully reliable source of knowledge. Psychology on the other hand is a field that attempts to use the scientific method to investigate a variety of man’s problems, and seeks to determine what works in helping people resolve their problems. This approach recognizes that scripture is “ALL TRUTH,” but may not contain “all truth”. Knowledge exists beyond the scripture about many subjects including psychology, medicine, family life, etc. The Christian counselor operating from this approach takes what is useful and consistent with scripture while discarding the rest.

Note: This is also taken from the link mentioned previously. 

@Openly Curious, @missmuffet, @natasha, @Ezra, @RustyAngeL, @Yowm, @Out of the Shadows (or anyone else in the thread) Which of these A, B, C, D most closely represents your view on Christian Counseling? 

God bless,

GE

[GoldenEagle]

3 hours ago, Ezra said:

You could start with the Sermon on the Mount and go from there.

Good idea Ezra! 

Here's the link for the Sermon on the Mount in the ESV. Since I know many people like the KJV here's the link for that version too. 

What can we infer about boundaries from the first 11 verses commonly referred to as "The Beatitudes"?

God bless,
GE

[GoldenEagle]

5 minutes ago, Yowm said:

 

3 hours ago, Yowm said:

GE, you've read the book and I assume the bible. What did the author say that wasn't in the bible?

 

46 minutes ago, GoldenEagle said:

Which of these A, B, C, D most closely represents your view on Christian Counseling? 

GE, I'll attempt an answer after you answer my previous question. (setting up my boundaries lol) 

Hiya Yowm. If you'll note I asked the question first on this post #15. You have not taken a position on the subject matter or answered my questions brother.  

Instead, if I were to be honest you have posted multiple times on this thread with one liners of of what I primarily perceive as sarcasm. So you understand my boundaries I don't react too well to those kinds of posts. lol

Truth be told, I'm actually working on a response to your question and the similar one that Openly Curious asked. It's just taking time as the response can be quite lengthy depending on the level of detail desired.  

God bless,
GE

[missmuffet]

4 minutes ago, GoldenEagle said:

Hiya Yowm. If you'll note I asked the question first on this post #15. You have not taken a position on the subject matter or answered my questions brother.  

Instead, if I were to be honest you have posted multiple times on this thread with one liners of of what I primarily perceive as sarcasm. So you understand my boundaries I don't react too well to those kinds of posts. lol

Truth be told, I'm actually working on a response to your question and the similar one that Openly Curious asked. It's just taking time as the response can be quite lengthy depending on the level of detail desired.  

God bless,
GE

Would you guys refer back to the thread " Pushing buttons"

[missmuffet]

2 hours ago, Out of the Shadows said:

You rely heavily on that site, what do you know of the people who are supplying the answers?  Do you take the time to follow all the references they give to see if they are really saying what this site says they are?

Well since "Got Questions" is a reliable Christian ministry. The man who owns the site is a Baptist minister. Yes, I study their advise. They are a little too Calvinism for me but otherwise they have born again Christian advise and use Scripture or I would not post it.

[missmuffet]

5 minutes ago, Yowm said:

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to sound sarcastic but one liners are my style. In another forum  I was known as the  'bumper sticker' poster...don't take offense, it is just me.  If you are preparing a loooong response, don't be surprised if my answer is also short.

I do not like long posts either Yown. I like your short posts. To the point.

[RustyAngeL]

9 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

I do not like long posts either Yown. I like your short posts. To the point.

Me too missmuffet, Right to the point.