GoldenEagle Posted September 4, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.80 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 4, 2016 Hmbld, from this post I listed 6 types of boundaries. Here's some examples: 1. Spiritual (Beliefs and personal experiences) I believe in the Bible and in Jesus Christ as my Savior. I believe the Holy Spirit directly speaks to me through the Bible, prayer, times of solitude, and through others. My personal experiences are my own. Nobody has the right to minimize or try to the be Holy Spirit in my life by telling me what to believe. People who want to be a part of my life can have differences of opinions but need to respect my beliefs. If they cannot then unfortunately I will not engage them. 2. Physical (personal space, privacy, body) I value my personal space. This means giving me room in a conversation and not getting all up in my face. People have boundaries that include privacy. Meaning to call before coming over to their house. Or not to enter their bedroom or go through their drawers without permission as another example. People also have the right to say how they will be touched and not be touched in their private areas. All these are physical boundaries. People who want to be a part of my life can have their own ideas of personal space but need to respect my limits. If they cannot then unfortunately I will not engage them. 3. Mental (thoughts, values, and opinions) The Bible says that children are under the authority of their parents until they become adults. (See Gal. 4:1-17) During the age of accountability and adulthood we transition from our parents being responsible for us to us becoming responsible for ourselves. So thoughts, values, and opinions are therefor the responsibility of those who become adults and leave their home to establish their own home. Children can have thoughts, values, and opinions but their authority is their parents until they come of age. My spouse doesn't have to have the same exact kind of thoughts, values, or opinions as me. This means often we will agree on a subject but when we do disagree she is free to think differently than me. People who want to be a part of my life can have differences of opinions but need to respect my beliefs. If they cannot then unfortunately I will not engage them. 4. Material (giving and lending) Having material boundaries means that one person cannot tell another person how to give, spend, or lend their money. For example, the Bible talks about co-signing being a very bad idea. In fact someone who consigns is described as a person who lacks sense and to try to get out of it as quickly as possible. See Proverbs 6:1-35, Proverbs 17:18, or Proverbs 22:26-27 for example. Whoever owes people money is in essence enslaved or "indebted" to the lender per Proverbs 22:7. Giving is something between a person and God. I don't presume to tell others how to steward their money nor do I in turn except others to impose their personal convictions on me. People who want to be a part of my life can have differences of opinions but need to respect my beliefs. If they cannot then unfortunately I will not engage them. 5. Emotional (feelings) I am responsible for my feelings and others are responsible for their feelings. It's about knowing your responsibility to yourself and others. I cannot control the feelings of others. I am responsible for how I feel. I'm responsible for how I react to others. Other people are responsible for how they react to me. People who want to be a part of my life can have differences of opinions but need to respect my beliefs. If they cannot then unfortunately I will not engage them. 6. Sexual (sexual touch and intimacy) There are certain boundaries I will not cross in sexual touch and intimacy. Each married couple must determine what that is according to Biblical teachings. People who want to be a part of my life can have differences of opinions but need to respect my beliefs. If they cannot then unfortunately I will not engage them. What are some of your boundaries in these 6 areas? God bless, GE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted September 4, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.80 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 4, 2016 6 hours ago, natasha said: Have I or do I try to control others? frankly I think everyone does that to different extents short answer: I would not have bought the book if I thought I did LOL! I think we probably all try to control the space around ourselves..boundaries, the book, is about controlling everyone elses' space people control through intimidation, manipulation and downright in your face threats, anger, sometimes physical abuse, emotional and so on we probably all have experienced some of that to one degree or another Natasha the authors I don't think are teaching that boundaries are about controlling everyone else's space. I think either you didn't get the gist of the book or this is a typo. "Boundaries define us. They define what is me and what is not me. A boundary shows me where I end and someone else begins, leading me to a sense of ownership. ... In addition to showing what we are responsible for, boundaries help us to define what is not on our property and what we are not responsible for. We are not, for example, responsible for other people. Nowhere are we commanded to have 'other-control' although we spend a lot of time and energy trying to get it!" Boundaries, Page 31-32 Boundaries are about self-control. Not at all about controlling others. Boundaries say "these are my limits, if you want to be a part of my life then great." As an example one friend said that when he was younger he dated several women at a time. When he met his wife she said that he was free to date around but if he wanted to date her she only dated one person at a time. She expected the person she was dating to only date her. If he wanted to date her he would have to respect that boundary. She was not setting limits on him. She was letting him know what were her expectations and was inviting him to get to know her better with those boundaries in mind. They have been married for over 3 decades now. What do you think? God bless, GE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natasha Posted September 5, 2016 Group: Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 50 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 46 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/08/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/26/1973 Share Posted September 5, 2016 13 hours ago, GoldenEagle said: Natasha the authors I don't think are teaching that boundaries are about controlling everyone else's space. I think either you didn't get the gist of the book or this is a typo. "Boundaries define us. They define what is me and what is not me. A boundary shows me where I end and someone else begins, leading me to a sense of ownership. ... In addition to showing what we are responsible for, boundaries help us to define what is not on our property and what we are not responsible for. We are not, for example, responsible for other people. Nowhere are we commanded to have 'other-control' although we spend a lot of time and energy trying to get it!" Boundaries, Page 31-32 Boundaries are about self-control. Not at all about controlling others. Boundaries say "these are my limits, if you want to be a part of my life then great." As an example one friend said that when he was younger he dated several women at a time. When he met his wife she said that he was free to date around but if he wanted to date her she only dated one person at a time. She expected the person she was dating to only date her. If he wanted to date her he would have to respect that boundary. She was not setting limits on him. She was letting him know what were her expectations and was inviting him to get to know her better with those boundaries in mind. They have been married for over 3 decades now. What do you think? God bless, GE not sure where you got those ideas from maybe too much analysis of what I wrote I have a good grip on what the book says...apart from all the University psych classes I took you have misunderstood what I wrote perhaps it's the lag time...I have noticed threads in this forum really move sloooooow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted September 16, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.80 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 16, 2016 On 9/3/2016 at 7:21 PM, Dok said: I would like for everyone to consider capitalization. Spirit, Spiritual, when speaking of the Holy Spirit: those emphases provided by Him. spirit, spiritual, when speaking of non-Spiritual matters. (In fact, I avoid the use of lower-case spirit / spiritual when speaking of those things Holy.) For example, one has to proceed with caution which addressing "soul and spirit," and "heart" in Hebrews 4:12. And then there is "church" (an assembly), and Church, the Body of Christ. There are other examples. On 9/3/2016 at 7:52 PM, Dok said: The words and deeds of others, divided by my thoughts about them, result in my response. WDo / mT ---> mR mR may be to do nothing, or to instantly deliver it, or place mR on hold due to new, other, or additional information interceding. In any event, that process must be monitored by the Holy Spirit. When that is accepted as Truth by each Christian, then the boundaries set are, and will be, Scriptural. Absent that Truth, the boundaries will be our own mind-will-emotions rolling around in the empire of brain, that place where the non-Christian wanders about constantly, 1 Corinthians 2:14. But we have the "mind," the Spiritual Insight, of Christ, 1 Corinthians 2:15-16. Hiya Dok! Was this a general comment or specifically to someone on this thread? I do agree that absent of truth our boundaries may become muddy. I agree we have the mind of Christ and Holy Spirit guiding us to truth! I really liked your ideas here regarding your formula. I think sometimes our own experiences or frame of reference influence our responses too. WDo / mT + mE ---> mR So I'd add my experiences to your formula. What do you think? Thanks for jumping in on the discussion! God bless, GE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted September 16, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.80 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 16, 2016 On 9/4/2016 at 10:26 AM, natasha said: Have I or do I try to control others? frankly I think everyone does that to different extents short answer: I would not have bought the book if I thought I did LOL! I think we probably all try to control the space around ourselves..boundaries, the book, is about controlling everyone elses' space On 9/4/2016 at 5:19 PM, GoldenEagle said: "Boundaries define us. They define what is me and what is not me. A boundary shows me where I end and someone else begins, leading me to a sense of ownership. ... In addition to showing what we are responsible for, boundaries help us to define what is not on our property and what we are not responsible for. We are not, for example, responsible for other people. Nowhere are we commanded to have 'other-control' although we spend a lot of time and energy trying to get it!" Boundaries, Page 31-32 Boundaries are about self-control. Not at all about controlling others. Boundaries say "these are my limits, if you want to be a part of my life then great." On 9/5/2016 at 7:15 AM, natasha said: not sure where you got those ideas from maybe too much analysis of what I wrote I have a good grip on what the book says...apart from all the University psych classes I took you have misunderstood what I wrote perhaps it's the lag time...I have noticed threads in this forum really move sloooooow Perhaps you could explain what you mean then "boundaries, the book, is about controlling everyone elses' space"? Yes, people have other responsibilities and interests outside of Worthy. lol I think too sometime people forget (like myself) to come back to threads to discuss topics. God bless, GE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted September 16, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.80 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 16, 2016 On 9/2/2016 at 10:55 PM, Openly Curious said: The passage teaches me that there is eternal consequences of what I sow in this life on earth. If I sow to the Spirit (walk in the Spirit) I will reap everlasting life. If I on the other hand walk in the flesh I will reap eternal damnation. If I walk in the Spirit I will do the things that are right being our fruits (deeds, works or actions we show through our behavior). I don't agree with not helping people out when they need help because it would interrupt the law of sowing and reaping in their life as was said above. It is totally up to me who I choose to show meekness, longsuffering, kindness, mercy, gentleness, love, peace, joy and faith with. I couldn't or anyone else couldn't interrupt this law of sowing and reaping. It is the same if I do the deeds(works, fruit unto death, sinful actions in our behavior) of the flesh towards others or in my life the consequences are eternal. You can sow to the Spirit and you will reap everlasting life. Or you can sow to the flesh and reap eternal damnation. You can have your fruit unto death or have your fruit unto life. You can inherit eternal life or throw it away by foolish living. Re: Galatians 6:7 – 8 and 2 Corinthians 9:6-8 I said: Our actions have consequences. Someone will bear them. Don’t interrupt this law by regularly bailing others out. For the most part I agree with you. I think you misunderstand what I mean. Let me clarify by giving a few examples. If someone who struggles with drug addiction or alcoholism is constantly bailed out will they learn their lesson? Or will the behavior persist? If someone who constantly spends money they don't have and charge up their credit cards without a way to pay them back is constantly bailed out will they learn their lesson? Or will the behavior persist? If a student is constantly dropping college courses and living off their parents will they learn their lesson? Or will the behavior persist? God bless, GE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted September 16, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.80 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 16, 2016 On 9/3/2016 at 11:00 PM, brakelite said: We humans are very much like cows. If you put 100 cows into a paddock but leave gates open, an hour or so later there will be 20 cows in each of five paddocks, regardless of the sufficiency of feed in the first paddock. We all, like cows, constantly crave what we don’t need, touch which we ought to leave alone, go where we ought to walk away from, and welcome that which we should shun. We, like cows, need boundaries beyond which we should not venture. Sadly, like cows, we don’t always need open gates to encourage our waywardness. We push at the boundaries much like cows push at fences. We push until they give way, and we then establish new boundaries. In society, the power for the boundary is the judicial system, parental control, or school or business discipline. On the farm, it is electricity. In society, those powers enforcing the boundaries are under constant attack, and are currently being compromised to the point of extinction. Hence we now have numerous Presidential despotic decrees that if implemented abrogate the constitution. In this country, murder is met with ‘life imprisonment’ with a non-parole period of 12 to 14 years attached. Sometimes less. Go figure. When cows break down a fence, the first thing to be checked is the power. If it isn’t working, it is reconnected to the fence, the fence repaired, and the cows driven back to their former quarters. What kind of a farmer would one be if he moved the fence and left the power disconnected? Yet that is what society is doing with its progeny, and every subsequent generation is met with weaker and weaker defenses against all out anarchy. Then we ring the radio stations and complain that our ‘neighbors’ children are lawless immoral reprobates and society gone to the dogs. Then we hang up, go back to our TVs and cocktail cabinets and blame the government. And children are particularly prone to the ‘cow’ problem. Ever seen a 3 yo not go through an open gate, or climb a fence if possible? Ethical, moral, and civil boundaries are essential to the well being of society, they must remain constant, and they must be enforced. Accomplished musicians adhere to the laws of harmony, melody, and rhythm. The closer the musician keeps to the laws, the better is the music. The alternative, to rebel against the laws that govern music, results in punk rock. The same applies to builders, who must adhere to the laws of engineering and physics etc that govern their trade. Any compromise or disobedience to those laws result in what we recently witnessed in Haiti. Personal boundaries that we choose to implement for ourselves should always harmonize with "Thou shalt love God with all your heart, and you neighbor as yourself". If we constrain ourselves to some isolationist position that prohibits others from any form of relationship how are we to take the gospel into all parts of the world? The only boundary apart from God's Ten Commandments that I can remember from scripture that is clearly mandated is that which tells us to not be a part of the world. I suppose whatever boundary we perceive as delineating the difference between 'in' and 'of' the world, can be somewhat subjective. What fruits result of our relationship with the world and how that relationship affects our relationship with our God ought to be sufficient to reveal where we stand, and whether we need to shift the boundary back a bit. Hiya Brakelite! I pretty much agree with a lot of what you say here. I wonder if you could give some examples of personal boundaries that harmonize "Thou shalt love God with all your heart, and your neighbor as yourself"? Or do you truly believe that the only boundary apart from the 10 commandments is not to be a part of the world? Please clarify. God bless, GE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted September 16, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.80 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 16, 2016 On 9/2/2016 at 4:41 PM, GoldenEagle said: The third law that the authors go through is as follows… Law #3 The Law of Power God gives you the power to do many things. Which, if any, of the following questions have you asked yourself? A. Am I powerless over my behavior? B. If I am, how can I become responsible? C. What has God given me the power to do with the help of the Holy Spirit? Understanding the Law of Power will help you understand these questions. Read through what Paul says in Romans 7: 15-25 (and KJV version here). What phrases can you especially identify with? What specific struggles do the phrases you listed bring to mind? God bless, GE God is all-powerful. My flesh is something God helps me deal with. I want to do what is right but of my own power I cannot do what is right. I am responsible for my actions. Jesus will deliver me! I identify with wanting to do good but following my flesh at times. I want to do what is right. I want to be a good husband and leader for my family. It's a lot harder to follow God than it is to simply exist each day. Yet simply existing is not what we are called to! When reading the rest of Romans 7 in context there's hope at the beginning and the end of the chapter. We have been raided from the dead and belong to God in order that we might bear fruit for Him! Romans 7:4 4 Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God. Romans 7:24-2524 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin. We do not have power over other people. We hardly have enough power over ourselves. God has power over everyone. Thoughts on this 3rd law? Agree or disagree with what I've said? God bless, GE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FresnoJoe Posted September 16, 2016 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 207 Topic Count: 60 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,651 Content Per Day: 1.17 Reputation: 5,761 Days Won: 4 Joined: 01/31/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/04/1943 Share Posted September 16, 2016 On 9/3/2016 at 1:29 PM, Ezra said: Christians should stop talking about *boundaries*.... Did Christ and His apostles go around setting boundaries.... or were they simply committed to doing.... God's will.... Flaming And behold, the angel who was speaking with me was going out, and another angel was coming out to meet him, and said to him, “Run, speak to that young man, saying, ‘Jerusalem will be inhabited without walls because of the multitude of men and cattle within it. ‘For I,’ declares the LORD, ‘will be a wall of fire around her, and I will be the glory in her midst.’” Zechariah 2:3-5 (New American Standard Bible) Walls Of Eternal Love For thus says the LORD of hosts, “After glory He has sent me against the nations which plunder you, for he who touches you, touches the apple of His eye. “For behold, I will wave My hand over them so that they will be plunder for their slaves. Then you will know that the LORD of hosts has sent Me. “Sing for joy and be glad, O daughter of Zion; for behold I am coming and I will dwell in your midst,” declares the LORD. “Many nations will join themselves to the LORD in that day and will become My people. Then I will dwell in your midst, and you will know that the LORD of hosts has sent Me to you. Zechariah 2:8-11 (New American Standard Bible) What Fool Would Slink Away From Jesus.... “The LORD will possess Judah as His portion in the holy land, and will again choose Jerusalem. Zechariah 2:12 (New American Standard Bible) ~ Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING The LORD bless thee, and keep thee: The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee: The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace. ~ And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27 Love, Your Brother Joe All your words are true; all your righteous laws are eternal. Psalms 119:160 (New International Version) The Bible contains the mind of God, the state of man, the way of salvation, the doom of sinners, and the happiness of believers. Its doctrines are holy, its precepts are binding, its histories are true, and its decisions are immutable. Read it to be wise, believe it to be safe, and practice it to be holy. It contains light to direct you, food to support you, and comfort to cheer you. It is the traveler’s map, the pilgrim’s staff, the pilot’s compass, the soldier’s sword and the Christian’s charter. Here too, Heaven is opened and the gates of Hell disclosed. Christ is its grand subject, our good its design, and the glory of God its end. It should fill the memory, rule the heart and guide the feet. Read it slowly, frequently and prayerfully. It is a mine of wealth, a paradise of glory, and a river of pleasure. It is given you in life, will be opened at the judgment, and be remembered forever. It involves the highest responsibility, rewards the greatest labor, and will condemn all who trifle with its sacred contents. From The Inside Of My Gideon New Testament Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted September 16, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.80 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 16, 2016 Summary (or table of contents?) of what I'd consider the primary, useful content of this thread: Understanding "Christian Counseling" as described by 5 types of counselors in this post about an article in 1975 by Gary Collins in Christianity today. Understanding "Christian Counseling" from the 4 views in this post. Examples of unhealthy boundaries from the book "Boundaries" here in this post. Law #1 The Law of Sowing and Reaping: When God tells us that we will reap what we sow, He is not punishing us; He’s telling us how things really work. Cause and effect. Key passages: 2 Corinthians 9:6-8 and Galatians 6:7 – 8 What I learned here. Our actions have consequences. Someone will bear them. Don’t interrupt this law by regularly bailing others out. Law #2 The Law of Responsibility: “You are responsible for yourself, I am responsible for myself.” Key passages: Galatians 5: 13-14, John 15:12, and Philippians 2:12-13 What I learned here. We are responsible to, not for each other. We are to love one another, not be one another. Law #3 The Law of Power: God gives you the power to do many things. Key passage: Romans 7: 15-23 What I learned above on this post. We do not have power over other people. We hardly have enough power over ourselves. God has power over everyone. @missmuffet linked an article here on this ost about spiritual boundaries. What are the different types of Boundaries? See this post here as a suggested list. @kwikphilly gives examples of Boundaries in the Bible here on this post. An explanation of Neuthetic Counseling (so-called Biblical Counseling) method can be seen here. @shiloh357 gives an example of an unhealthy relationship lacking bounders here on this post. God bless, GE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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