America in the end times

[Last Daze]

3 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Last Daze,

I do appreciate that you give room for what I say, & are not putting down.

Bless you bro, Marilyn.

 

Blessings to you too, sis.  I think we are better served if we remain flexible in our understanding of the things to come.  I think your understanding of world powers / economies warrants consideration and shouldn't be dismissed in an off-hand way.  I appreciate your contributions to the subject.

[Marilyn C]

4 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

Blessings to you too, sis.  I think we are better served if we remain flexible in our understanding of the things to come.  I think your understanding of world powers / economies warrants consideration and shouldn't be dismissed in an off-hand way.  I appreciate your contributions to the subject.

Hi Last Daze,

What a gentleman you are. I appreciate your thoughtful comments also. We are all desiring to learn of the Holy Spirit & we all have a part to share, being the Body of Christ. So am enjoying the journey as we discuss with respect for each other.

Marilyn.

 

[WilliamL]

On 9/24/2016 at 9:45 PM, Marilyn C said:

1. These beastly Federations `shall arise.` (v. 17) (thus future to Babylon) 

Not necessarily future, regardless of what your Bible version says. The verb is in the imperfect, which can mean future, but that is not its exclusive use. From blueletterbible.org:

"The imperfect expresses an action, process or condition which is incomplete, and it has a wide range of meaning:

1a) It is used to describe a single (as opposed to a repeated) action in the past; it differs from the perfect in being more vivid and pictorial. The perfect expresses the "fact", the imperfect adds colour and movement by suggesting the "process" preliminary to its completion. ...

2a) In the present..."

3) The imperfect is used to express the "future", referring not only to an action which is about to be accomplished but one which has not yet begun..."

So this verb can also be translated "arise," or "shall have arisen." Context denotes the use, and one's preconceptions influence one's interpretation of the context. You have presumed a future context based upon your Bible's translation and probably other reasons, but that does not mean that you are correct.

 

Edited October 4, 2016 by WilliamL

[Marilyn C]

9 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Not necessarily future, regardless of what your Bible version says. The verb is in the imperfect, which can mean future, but that is not its exclusive use. From blueletterbible.org:

"The imperfect expresses an action, process or condition which is incomplete, and it has a wide range of meaning:

1a) It is used to describe a single (as opposed to a repeated) action in the past; it differs from the perfect in being more vivid and pictorial. The perfect expresses the "fact", the imperfect adds colour and movement by suggesting the "process" preliminary to its completion. ...

2a) In the present..."

3) The imperfect is used to express the "future", referring not only to an action which is about to be accomplished but one which has not yet begun..."

So this verb can also be translated "arise," or "shall have arisen." Context denotes the use, and one's preconceptions influence one's interpretation of the context. You have presumed a future context based upon your Bible's translation and probably other reasons, but that does not mean that you are correct.

 

Hi WilliamL,

Thank you for that word `meaning.` Now obviously to understand whether it is `in the present` or `the future` etc as you have written, then we need to look at the context the Lord has set it in. Context of the setting, the book, & God`s purposes through Christ.

So in the context of setting we see that these powers that `shall` arise are in the time when God sets up His kingdom on earth through Israel. The last power treads down the others & is judged, destroyed, while the first three powers are given an extension of life but not authority.

`I watched till the beast (last one) was slain, & its body destroyed & given to the burning flame. As for the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season & a time.` (Dan. 7: 11 & 12)

Thus we see that the `shall` is future to Daniel & in the end-times.

regards Marilyn.  

[HAZARD]

On ‎24‎/‎09‎/‎2016 at 11:27 PM, Out of the Shadows said:

If this has been asked before I apologize, but does America appear anywhere in the prophecies about the end times?   I am by no means an expert on eschatology but it is my understanding that the US is not a part of what will be taking place, at least not in a major way. 

Is this accurate?

Thanks in advance

Hi.

The answer to your question is no.

The Antichrist, a man, will reign over only ten kingdoms that are yet to be formed inside the yet to be revived, Old Roman Empire. (Dan. 7:23-24). Only these ten kingdoms will give their power and kingdoms to him. (Rev.13:1; 17:12-17).

 

Certain countries will escape his rule (Dan.11:40-44). Also, certain countries will make war on him at the very time he is supposed to be ruling the whole world (Dan. 11:40-44).

 

Because he will reign only over ten countries inside the Roman Empire territory and because America is not inside that territory and never will be, and because certain countries will escape him we can scripturally conclude that he will never rule America or be a world-wide dictator. Therefore, multitudes of people of many nations will also never take the mark of the beast and they will never be killed by the Antichrist for not doing so.

 

The Bible speaks of many peoples of many nations that are left after the reign of the Antichrist, people who will be alive in the Millennium and will go up yearly to worship God (Zech. 14:16-21). This further limits the kingdom of the Antichrist to only part of the world and also limits his ability to kill everyone who does not take the mark even in his own empire. According to Rev. 14:9-11 no one who has taken the mark will go into the Millennium, but will be sent to eternal Hell.

 

That multitudes go into the Millennium proves they have not taken the mark of the beast and have not been killed, as taught by many Bible students. If the Antichrist were to kill every person who does not take his mark, and God sends to Hell everyone who does take the mark, then there would be not one person left to enter the Millennium. Also, The mark of the beast will not be 666. There are three brands men will have a choice of taking in the days of the Antichrist inside his kingdom. They are his name, his mark, and the number of his name (Rev. 13:16-18). The name and mark of this man is not given in scripture; so no one will know what they are until he comes and men get to know what his name and mark will be, and what he will chose to put on his followers. The only one of these three brands that is given is the number of his name, and that is stated as being 666 in Rev. 13:18. So 666 is not the name or the mark of the beast. It is the number of the beast.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

People also focus on the literal aspect of the statue of Nebuchadnezzar's dream and point to the toes, which are not illuminated by the text for special consideration, and many make an interpretation that there will be 10 nations because of the "ten kings".
 

10 hours ago, HAZARD said:

The Antichrist, a man, will reign over only ten kingdoms that are yet to be formed inside the yet to be revived, 

Ten Kingdoms?  Or ten kings?

Rev 17:12 The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they receive authority as kings with the beast for one hour.

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The Angel is describing the beast with seven heads.

Rev 17:3 ...a woman sitting on a scarlet beast, full of blasphemous names, having seven heads and ten horns.

This beast is also called a dragon in Rev 16:13; it is a spiritual being as well.  It is not Satan because this being is possessed by a spirit greater than it.
Thus this beast is the eighth "head".

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The heads are double: they are both mountains and rulers.

Rev 17: The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits, 10 and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while.

The seven mountains is commonly referred to Rome; I have no qualm with that interpretation although there are other cities with seven hills.  The harlot is comparable in apocryphal terms to the woman Israel whom God loved in Ezekiel 16:

15 "But you trusted in your beauty and played the harlot because of your fame,

Putting two and two together, it is an easy comparison to the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) in Rome who "rode" the scarlet beast of the Roman Empire, becoming political as well.

Both the woman Israel of Ezekiel 16 and the woman of Rev 17 as the RCC, may started out as virgins, in that they were true to God, but by enmeshing themselves with the kings of this world, they became unfaithful, hence both became harlots. 

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The aspect of time is introduced with the explanation of the kingly interpretation of the heads.
~ have fallen, one is, the other yet to come ~
At the time of the end: five are past.  One is present.  The last is future.
Seen over 2500 years, these rulers may represent the seven worst ever.  I cannot name the worst five in history, but Hitler ought to be in that number, as well as some Roman Caesars.

So looking over time: there are seven successive Kings.

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However, as to the horns, do they really represent 10 nations put together ~ OR ~ do they represent the 10 rulers over the inception of the fourth terrible beast who itself formed by the previous three beasts of Daniel 7?

Rev 13:1 Then I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads, and on his horns were ten diadems, and on his heads were blasphemous names. 2 And the beast which I saw was like a leopard, and his feet were like those of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion.

Notice the list is in reverse order and names the same three beasts which all rise together out of the "sea" in Daniel 7

I can lend an interpretation:

• The lion: America
• The bear: Russia
• The leopard: Europe.

Putting these three great end-time kingdoms together at the end, makes a for a complete unification of the northern half of the Northern Hemisphere.
A true, Kingdom of the North.

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Over this amalgamation of sovereign nations, a federation as you will, suppose they constituted themselves with a ruling council of ministers - not unlike how the "body" of the EU has been formed with 12 ministers overseeing 25, now 24 nations; with TEN Ministers.

Then ~ these 10 "Ministers" would act AS Kings, yet they would come with no kingdom!

Thus they would fulfill this important clause set in the explanation for this aspect of the scarlet beast/dragon nation:

Rev 17:12 The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they receive authority as kings with the beast for one hour.

SO ~ I am looking for a future combination of European-originated, Romanesque nations which will form a nation so great and powerful, none could withstand it.

Still there will be a "South" untamed who attacks it (and is within it as the clay of Dan 2:41/43) ~ Islam
And an "East" who is set as the spoiler trying to come in at the last and conquer both ~ China.

Furthermore, it is within this very small circle of power, these ten "Ministers" that the little horn of Daniel arises.
The anti-Christ is a political animal residing within the powerful, who only makes his move at the end.

[WilliamL]

14 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

So in the context of setting we see that these powers that `shall` arise are in the time when God sets up His kingdom on earth through Israel. The last power treads down the others & is judged, destroyed, while the first three powers are given an extension of life but not authority.

`I watched till the beast (last one) was slain, & its body destroyed & given to the burning flame. As for the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season & a time.` (Dan. 7: 11 & 12)

Thus we see that the `shall` is future to Daniel & in the end-times.

What you me "we," kimo sabe? I see no such evidence for what you posit.

You write,"these powers that `shall` arise are in the time when God sets up His kingdom on earth through Israel," but the text nowhere says that these powers shall arise in the End Times. Whereas other prophecies in Daniel, such as 11:27, 35, 40, so clearly state those very words, in Dan. 7 they are nowhere found in reference to the time of appearance of these kingdoms.

[Marilyn C]

8 hours ago, WilliamL said:

What you me "we," kimo sabe? I see no such evidence for what you posit.

You write,"these powers that `shall` arise are in the time when God sets up His kingdom on earth through Israel," but the text nowhere says that these powers shall arise in the End Times. Whereas other prophecies in Daniel, such as 11:27, 35, 40, so clearly state those very words, in Dan. 7 they are nowhere found in reference to the time of appearance of these kingdoms.

Hi WilliamL,

Or should I say `Tonto?`(I think that is the same movie - `kimo sabe,` you said.) So maybe you should listen to ole wise (!) Lone Ranger. (lol)

We know the first 7 chapters of Daniel were written to the Gentile Powers, while the last chapters were in Hebrew to the Israelites. So, as you said `the endtimes,` is mentioned there (last chapters)  - regarding Israel & the nations. However the first seven chapters are to do with Gentile rulers.

Thus in chapter seven we read of great Federations with the last one being judged by the heavenly court & its dominion taken away & given to the Israeli saints, (as promised). The other beastly Federations – Lion, Bear, & Leopard, have their dominion taken away but continue for a short season. This is very clearly when the Lord comes & sets up His kingdom rule through Israel in the millennium.

 

Regards, Marilyn.

[WilliamL]

On 10/5/2016 at 5:41 PM, Marilyn C said:

We know the first 7 chapters of Daniel were written to the Gentile Powers, while the last chapters were in Hebrew to the Israelites. So, as you said `the endtimes,` is mentioned there (last chapters)  - regarding Israel & the nations. However the first seven chapters are to do with Gentile rulers.

All of the chapters in Daniel "are to do with Gentile rulers" and their dealings with Israelites.

On 10/5/2016 at 5:41 PM, Marilyn C said:

Thus in chapter seven we read of great Federations with the last one being judged by the heavenly court & its dominion taken away & given to the Israeli saints, (as promised). The other beastly Federations – Lion, Bear, & Leopard, have their dominion taken away but continue for a short season. This is very clearly when the Lord comes & sets up His kingdom rule through Israel in the millennium.

All true, but irrelevant to the point being discussed -- when did these empires ascend? The angelic princes of the ancient kingdoms are still active in world affairs today, although having decreased in potency relative to other angelic Powers.

[Marilyn C]

10 hours ago, WilliamL said:

All of the chapters in Daniel "are to do with Gentile rulers" and their dealings with Israelites.

All true, but irrelevant to the point being discussed -- when did these empires ascend? The angelic princes of the ancient kingdoms are still active in world affairs today, although having decreased in potency relative to other angelic Powers.

Hi William,

I also agree that behind kingdoms, Federations there are angelic powers. Zechariah tells us this as well. However they work through the kingdoms & that is what is spoken of there in Daniel, the Gentile kingdoms, great Federations. And those are the ones that either get destroyed (4th beastly power) or go through into the millennium.

Marilyn.