FBI: Violent crime across US spiked in 2015, murders up nearly 11 percent

[Running Gator]

Just now, shiloh357 said:

I am not commenting on if the statistics you provided are true or not.   I am simply pointing out that the liberals who squawk about how violent crime is down when they are campaigning on their policies, are the same ones who throw up statistics that the exact opposite in order to make the case for gun control. 

 

And what relevance does that have to do with if crime is down or not?  

[Guest shiloh357]

16 minutes ago, Out of the Shadows said:

And what relevance does that have to do with if crime is down or not?  

The point is that for every statistic someone can post, someone else can post their pet stastics to say something else.  It happens all of the time on here.   Everyone can find numbers to support the view they are promoting.   Crime is "down" or "up"  depending on what you are wanting to prove.  So I would not put any stock in a claim by Hillary that violent crime is down.   Later on, she will say the opposite to justify needing more gun control measures.

[Running Gator]

8 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

The point is that for every statistic someone can post, someone else can post their pet stastics to say something else.  It happens all of the time on here.   Everyone can find numbers to support the view they are promoting.   Crime is "down" or "up"  depending on what you are wanting to prove.  So I would not put any stock in a claim by Hillary that violent crime is down.   Later on, she will say the opposite to justify needing more gun control measures.

She is a politician so I am sure she will.  I was just correcting the implication above that what Hillary said in the debate was false, because it was not.  And whether you support Trump, Hillary or neither, we should all care about truth and accuracy in our statements. 

[shoes_untied]

1 hour ago, shiloh357 said:

Ah yes, the liberal kool-aid.   When they want to run on their policies, crime is down in order to show that their policies work.  But when they want to justify more gun control, they claim that crime is up.   We have had liberals on this board for YEARS citing statistics that violent crime is not only up, but that it is higher in the US than anywhere else.  They cite those statistics to justify their views on needing more gun control laws.   

 

I would hardly call fbi.gov liberal kool-aid.  I posted this a couple days ago from the National Review which I doubt many would call liberal Kool-aid

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/427758/careful-panic-violent-crime-and-gun-crime-are-both-dropping-charles-c-w-cooke

The fact is that even with an increase this year, you would need to go back to the first half of the seventies to find a time when violent crime was this low.  Hillary is looking at this long term trend.  Co-mingling the violent crime rate in the US with comparison's of violent crime in the US vs. other countries just creates empty argumentative noise as they are two completely separate things.

Mismuffet, the reason it doesn't seem like it is down is because of the change in the speed and volume of how information spreads during the information age.  Donald Trump is banking that his followers don't understand the difference.

By the way.  If you overlay a graph of the percentage of the overall population by year that is in the age group the commits violent crimes (teens - thirties) you will see that the curve follows very closely with the violent crime curve.  Simply put, as the baby boomer generation passed into the age group that commits crimes, crime went up, and as they aged, violent crime declined.  There are of course many things that impact crime rates but I think that is a big factor.

[Guest shiloh357]

10 minutes ago, shoes_untied said:

I would hardly call fbi.gov liberal kool-aid.  I posted this a couple days ago from the National Review which I doubt many would call liberal Kool-aid

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/427758/careful-panic-violent-crime-and-gun-crime-are-both-dropping-charles-c-w-cooke

The fact is that even with an increase this year, you would need to go back to the first half of the seventies to find a time when violent crime was this low.  Hillary is looking at this long term trend.  Co-mingling the violent crime rate in the US with comparison's of violent crime in the US vs. other countries just creates empty argumentative noise as they are two completely separate things.

Mismuffet, the reason it doesn't seem like it is down is because of the change in the speed and volume of how information spreads during the information age.  Donald Trump is banking that his followers don't understand the difference.

By the way.  If you overlay a graph of the percentage of the overall population by year that is in the age group the commits violent crimes (teens - thirties) you will see that the curve follows very closely with the violent crime curve.  Simply put, as the baby boomer generation passed into the age group that commits crimes, crime went up, and as they aged, violent crime declined.  There are of course many things that impact crime rates but I think that is a big factor.

Liberals, in debates on gun control on this board, in years past cite all kinds of statistics to prove that violent crime is up and has been up for years due to access to fire arms.  They also cite statistics from other countries that have lower crime rates than we do, to make their case.   So it rings pretty hollow to cite one set of statistics to prove that crime is down today, but then quote other statistics to prove just the opposite  when they want to make a case for violent crime being up when they want to make a case for gun control.   They cannot have it both ways.  That's why I call it Liberal kool-aid.   It's just one reason why I have no respect for liberalism.

[Guest shiloh357]

31 minutes ago, Out of the Shadows said:

She is a politician so I am sure she will.  I was just correcting the implication above that what Hillary said in the debate was false, because it was not.  And whether you support Trump, Hillary or neither, we should all care about truth and accuracy in our statements. 

I never claimed it was false, nor did I imply it was wrong.   I said that she will quote a whole other set of statistics later on to make the case that violent crime is up and guns will get the blame for it.  

[Running Gator]

3 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Liberals, in debates on gun control on this board, in years past cite all kinds of statistics to prove that violent crime is up and has been up for years due to access to fire arms.  They also cite statistics from other countries that have lower crime rates than we do, to make their case.   So it rings pretty hollow to cite one set of statistics to prove that crime is down today, but then quote other statistics to prove just the opposite  when they want to make a case for violent crime being up when they want to make a case for gun control.   They cannot have it both ways.  That's why I call it Liberal kool-aid.   It's just one reason why I have no respect for liberalism.

How is this any different than what you are doing?  You are obfuscating the facts with these triads against liberals.  The numbers are what the are, I have no idea what statistics the liberals on this board have been siting, maybe you would link to a few of those threads.  They would have to be easy to find since the number of liberals on this board could be counted on one hand. 

[Running Gator]

3 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

I never claimed it was false, nor did I imply it was wrong.   I said that she will quote a whole other set of statistics later on to make the case that violent crime is up and guns will get the blame for it.  

Once again, if you read the whole thread and follow who replied to what you would know who my first response was too.  You too often take post totally out of context and just ignore what they are in response to. 

[shoes_untied]

16 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Liberals, in debates on gun control on this board, in years past cite all kinds of statistics to prove that violent crime is up and has been up for years due to access to fire arms.  They also cite statistics from other countries that have lower crime rates than we do, to make their case.   So it rings pretty hollow to cite one set of statistics to prove that crime is down today, but then quote other statistics to prove just the opposite  when they want to make a case for violent crime being up when they want to make a case for gun control.   They cannot have it both ways.  That's why I call it Liberal kool-aid.   It's just one reason why I have no respect for liberalism.

You have a lot more experience with this board than I do so I will take your word for it.

[Guest shiloh357]

7 minutes ago, Out of the Shadows said:

How is this any different than what you are doing?  You are obfuscating the facts with these triads against liberals.  The numbers are what the are, I have no idea what statistics the liberals on this board have been siting, maybe you would link to a few of those threads.  They would have to be easy to find since the number of liberals on this board could be counted on one hand. 

No, I am not obfuscating any facts.   I am simply stating that even if the FBI stats are true, the liberals will ignore those stats when they are no longer convenient for them. They always do.   Is that really so hard to understand?

I am not going to search through thousands of threads over  a 13 year span of time and multiple forums on this board. We have had many, many liberals on this board over the years, they didn't' just show up last week.

You are talking about threads that probably didn't start off on gun control, but some other related topic and then morphed into something about gun control.  No one has the time to search for threads often buried under years and years of other threads.    But anyone who has been here long enough can confirm what I said.