My persepctive on the proposed six new beatitudes from Pope Francis

[markdohle]

9 minutes ago, ayin jade said:

Do you think the Lord was not capable of protecting Christianity without the catholic church? Do you think it was the catholic church and its traditions that saved Christianity? 

The church developed through history, so yes you do need the catholic church, for without it there would be no canon, the New Testament would not exist.  Study history my friend, not to be converted, but to understand.  The Father works through history, the Old Testament bears that out.

[markdohle]

3 minutes ago, Davida said:

Yes ,mark there are a few  Catholic Apologists  on this Forum.

I am not really one of them, but learning to speak truth from the heart and not worry about what others think, that way a two way exchange can be had ;-).  So thank you for helping me in that my friend. 

Peace
Mark

[Guest BacKaran]

You still haven't answered the question... What is the rcc tradition to you?

[markdohle]

20 minutes ago, BacKaran said:

Mark,

Wow...so what yousay to  the corruption of the rcc..so what? Why do you remain in a church with such corruption, scandals, you just acknowledged it's corrupt.

My protestant church had an issue in getting more bodies into church so they didn't discuss or preach on sin, my need for redemption or a Savior and I had to leave. Bit thete was no corruption or scandal in that church but they didn't preach  the Truth.

My non denominational church preaches only the Gospel, sin, redemption and the forgiveness of God. No corruption in our church as we have the biblical church model of elders and deacons given to us in the Bible by God.

. We also learn the whole council of the bible from Genesis to Revelation, not a three year sermon plan like the rcc has which repeats.

John MacArthur has a huge church. Same thing, no scandals or corruption...

Amazing anyone would stay in after what you said.

Amazing but not surprised as God tells us many will perish for their lack of knowledge.

 

I did not mean it in a flippant way.  I am not surprised that is all, it in no way takes away from the true mission of the church, nor does it dim the brightness of those many holy men and woman who live out their faith to the full.  We all know that power corrupts, it does it today in politics and yes in all churches as well even if they are small and so called born again believers.  The human heart is corrupt in many ways, so it will show itself.  Yet the gates of hell will not prevail.  I love the Lord Jesus and the Sacraments especially the Eucharist, which draw me and many Catholics into a deep personal relationship with Jesus Christ.   The devotions to the saints and the Blessed Mother also draw me deeper into Christ Jesus and the Holy Trinity and the union we have in the Body of Christ that death cannot divide.

In all things praise Jesus Christ.

Peace
mark

[Guest BacKaran]

the Eucharist, which draw me and many Catholics into a deep personal relationship with Jesus Christ

 

It should only be Christ that draws you to Him, not the service, not the sacraments, Just Jesus.

Perhaps teditis can answer the question about rcc tradition....

[markdohle]

Just now, BacKaran said:

the Eucharist, which draw me and many Catholics into a deep personal relationship with Jesus Christ

 

It should only be Christ that draws you to Him, not the service, not the sacraments, Just Jesus.

Perhaps tedious can answer the question about tradition....

That is the problem my friend, you have no understanding of what the early church actually believed or taught since you do not know history.  It is sad, but I accept it.

[markdohle]

2 minutes ago, BacKaran said:

the Eucharist, which draw me and many Catholics into a deep personal relationship with Jesus Christ

 

It should only be Christ that draws you to Him, not the service, not the sacraments, Just Jesus.

Perhaps tedious can answer the question about tradition....

2 hours ago, BacKaran said:

 

I did answer it, here is  a copy of it, though it is a few post up:

 

From the very beginning of the Church there has been development and a deepening of our understanding of the message of Christ.  After Jesus rose from the dead, it was thought by all that one had to be a Jew, or a Jewish convert to be a Christian.  The the Holy Spirit gave Peter the vision of the animals being brought down in a sheet and told to eat.  It was a metaphor about allowing the Gentiles to enter the Church.  Then there was saint Paul and his mission.  It was a give and take at first and Paul was not that popular in the early Church because the majority were Jews many from the priestly class as well as scribes and pharisees.  This is played out in the book of acts.  All of the letters in the New Testament were dealing with specific problems of a fledgling church.  It is part of the tradition of the church, but there was a lot more going on that was not put in to the canon because they were not problems to be dealt with.  There are many early texts that deal with how the sacraments were important, one of them being reconciliation and yes its form did develop over time.  Of course Paul covered the Eucharist in Corinthians but not in depth, but he did bring about its centrality in the worship of the early church.  Also the early church had structure and people needed to comply to it if they were christian.  The church was not some form of invisible body made up of believers but a true gathering of like minded believers.  Devotions to the saints also came into being in the first centuries of the church.

The honoring of saints began within the first generations of the Catholic Church. In early tradition, it was the martyrs who were remembered. The early martyrs were men and women whose Christianity brought them into friction within Jewish and pagan communities and eventually led to their executions. Altars were erected on top of the tombs of these martyrs, where Mass would be said, especially on the anniversary of the martyr’s death. In time, when permanent churches were able to be built, chapels and eventually basilicas were built on top the resting places of the martyrs.

Also devotion to the Blessed Mother started early as well in the church:

http://www.earlychristians.org/index.php/origins/item/678-the-devotion-to-the-virgin-mary-in-the-early-church/678-the-devotion-to-the-virgin-mary-in-the-early-church

In understanding history, one can see that many of the obstacles put forth by those who are anti catholic can be seen from a better perspective.  The Holy Spirit is continually teaching the church and its people.  We deepen our understanding, we do not change the revelation or its central message, the saving will of the Father as shown us through Jesus Christ.

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[Guest BacKaran]

Mark, sorry I didn't recognize the tradition but that's not what the CCC says.

The tradition is ever changing to whatever the magisterium says it is.

 

[markdohle]

2 minutes ago, BacKaran said:

Mark, sorry I didn't recognize the tradition but that's not what the CCC says.

The tradition is ever changing to whatever the magisterium says it is.

 

No that is the tradition of the Church.  There are non essentials that can be changed, but the central core, no.   I suppose tradition can have many different level of meaning.  For me it is something living and alive connecting the past with the present.

Peace
mark

[ayin jade]

41 minutes ago, markdohle said:

The church developed through history, so yes you do need the catholic church, for without it there would be no canon, the New Testament would not exist.  Study history my friend, not to be converted, but to understand.  The Father works through history, the Old Testament bears that out.

The Holy Spirit is responsible for the canon and the new testament. Not the catholic church. There were plenty of Christians outside the catholic church even in the early days.