70 weeks, 1000 years?

[Marilyn C]

Hi Heb,

In the process of the Lord restoring all things, death is the final enemy to be dealt with.

`The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.` (1 Cor. 15: 26)

Hope that helps, Marilyn.

[Heb 13:8]

Underline: Some things to note: Matt 24:3, Matthew said age, not ages.

aión: a space of time, an age
Original Word: αἰών, ῶνος, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: aión
Phonetic Spelling: (ahee-ohn')
Short Definition: an age, a cycle of time
Definition: an age, a cycle (of time), especially of the present age as contrasted with the future age, and of one of a series of ages stretching to infinity.

King James Bible - And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Greek: And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and the completion of the age?

GOD'S PLAN OF THE AGES
1. The Pre-Adamic Age - http://www.godsplanf...om/preadamicage
2. The Adamic Age
3. The Age of Israel under the Old Mosaic Covenant of the Law
4. The Age of the Church under the New Covenant of Grace
5. The Millennial Age of the Kingdom of God
6. The Lake of Fire Judgement Age
7. The Eternal Age of the Kingdom of God

[Sister]

Hi Serving

Ok, I've had a week or so to ponder on this.

It's clear, that the Messiah was cut off at week 62.  Not at week 62 after the 7 weeks  (69 weeks), but at week 62 period.

"After" three score and two weeks, ....means in the midst of that week 62, ...half way through.

 Daniel 9:26   And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

  Daniel 9:27   And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Inside the 70 weeks, the temple took 7 weeks to build. 

Inside the 70 weeks, at week 62 (in the middle of that week), the Messiah was cut off.

This is why the weeks were separated, to show how long the building of the temple took, and at what week the Messiah would be sacrificed.

This is the interpretation the angel gave Daniel.  So simple in my opinion, that it's disregarded. 

At least we agree that it is fulfilled, in the past, and concerning Israel only, having nothing to do with the end times.

 

You cannot compare this to Daniel's 1335 days, because we were given days, nothing to interpret there, straight forward.

You cannot compare this to Revelation's 42 months, because the 42 months have already been interpreted as time, times and a half in Daniel (3 1/2 yrs)

You cannot use the same calculation here in Dan 9 with converting weeks to months to years, because it wont calculate using the same formula.

What about Enoch?  He used weeks and those 10 weeks were before the flood to the melting of the earth.

 

[Serving]

On 18/12/2016 at 0:32 PM, Sister said:

Hi Serving

Ok, I've had a week or so to ponder on this.

It's clear, that the Messiah was cut off at week 62.  Not at week 62 after the 7 weeks  (69 weeks), but at week 62 period.

"After" three score and two weeks, ....means in the midst of that week 62, ...half way through.

 Daniel 9:26   And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

  Daniel 9:27   And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Inside the 70 weeks, the temple took 7 weeks to build. 

Inside the 70 weeks, at week 62 (in the middle of that week), the Messiah was cut off.

This is why the weeks were separated, to show how long the building of the temple took, and at what week the Messiah would be sacrificed.

This is the interpretation the angel gave Daniel.  So simple in my opinion, that it's disregarded. 

At least we agree that it is fulfilled, in the past, and concerning Israel only, having nothing to do with the end times.

 

You cannot compare this to Daniel's 1335 days, because we were given days, nothing to interpret there, straight forward.

You cannot compare this to Revelation's 42 months, because the 42 months have already been interpreted as time, times and a half in Daniel (3 1/2 yrs)

You cannot use the same calculation here in Dan 9 with converting weeks to months to years, because it wont calculate using the same formula.

What about Enoch?  He used weeks and those 10 weeks were before the flood to the melting of the earth.

 

Hi Sister,

NO, sorry, but your interpretation in this ONE instance is a very clear contradiction.

Sister, what does "SHALL" mean ?

Doesn't it mean FUTURE .. TO COME ?

Isn't that how we use it in EVERY OTHER prophecy?

So WHY aren't we being consistent in this ONE instance below, out of ALL the others where we ARE consistent?

ESPECIALLY in the way it is used with the word AFTER too ??

 Daniel 9:26   And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

That is clearly saying that AFTER 62 weeks expires, SHALL (future tense) Messiah be cut off.

If it is what you are saying, then it should read like this :

And after threescore and two weeks Messiah be cut off,

See?

That word SHALL undoes what you are saying completely.

You do NOT use the words AFTER & SHALL together like this : " And after threescore and two weeks shall " if it is saying what you are saying .. no, not at all, not ever.

Think about that one point over & over & over and you will see that I am correct beyond doubt.

This certainly means what I am saying :

And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off,

And this means what you are saying :

And after threescore and two weeks Messiah be cut off,

You can not have it both ways unless you break from every other instance where you use SHALL correctly, unlike what you are doing for this ONE instance .. SHALL means FUTURE/TO COME .. you are not applying it consistently here at all Sister .. you are breaking your own METHOD you apply to the word SHALL in this ONE and ONLY instance .. 

That tells me that there is a error in there .. an assumption that is being forced instead of the true meaning being forced.

And I know that YOU, like me, could NEVER stomach a charge like that for an INSTANT .. but I'm telling you Sister .. that is exactly what is going on for this ONE instance where you are ignoring the usual method in the way SHALL is used.

I can see your point clearly .. that is WHY I am so against it, because I can see it clearly and it goes against every other example where we interpret the word SHALL .. against every single one of them.

 

[Heb 13:8]

On 12/20/2016 at 0:01 PM, Serving said:

 

Some ask why Jesus didn't add His death into the Olivet in Matt 24, in "these things", and "the sign of your coming" in Matt 24:3, because His death was actually the "completion of the Mosaic age" in Matt 24:3.

My response: Why would Jesus add His death to the list of "these things". Even Peter rebuked Him Matt 16:22.

Edited December 22, 2016 by Heb 13:8

[Sister]

On 21/12/2016 at 1:01 AM, Serving said:

Hi Sister,

NO, sorry, but your interpretation in this ONE instance is a very clear contradiction.

Sister, what does "SHALL" mean ?

Doesn't it mean FUTURE .. TO COME ?

Hi Serving

The whole explanation to Daniel was future.  Everything in that 70 week prophecy was to come.

Quote

Isn't that how we use it in EVERY OTHER prophecy?

No, every prophesy is different according to it's context.  I explained that already?

 

Quote

 

 

So WHY aren't we being consistent in this ONE instance below, out of ALL the others where we ARE consistent?

ESPECIALLY in the way it is used with the word AFTER too ??

 Daniel 9:26   And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

That is clearly saying that AFTER 62 weeks expires, SHALL (future tense) Messiah be cut off.

 

I am not denying the Messiah was cut off after 62 weeks, because I already explained that he was cut off "half way" through that 62nd week. 

 

Quote

 

If it is what you are saying, then it should read like this :

And after threescore and two weeks Messiah be cut off,

See?

That word SHALL undoes what you are saying completely.

 

This is trivial Serving?  Whether you put the word "shall" in there or not, it doesn't change what's prophesied to happen.  It's determined to happen and it happened.  All was already determined.

If this is the strongest part of your argument then i think I can stand a good chance!

Quote

 

You do NOT use the words AFTER & SHALL together like this : " And after threescore and two weeks shall " if it is saying what you are saying .. no, not at all, not ever.

Think about that one point over & over & over and you will see that I am correct beyond doubt.

This certainly means what I am saying :

And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off,

And this means what you are saying :

And after threescore and two weeks Messiah be cut off,

 

No, if the Messiah is cut off after the 62 weeks, and scripture lastly "clarifies" it was in the midst of that week he was cut off, then the 62 weeks have already ticked over, and "after" is another half a week after the 62 weeks.  There's no contradiction there?

Daniel 9:27   And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, .....

 

You are saying the Messiah was cut off after week 69.  You are adding how long it took to build the temple, to the 62 weeks.  You are making a "sum".  It doesnt say it's a sum.  This scripture is different from the other scripture in Dan re the 1335 days, ...that we can calculate.  This one is a trick and a trap.

I am saying that the messiah started his ministry "at week 62".  ...shortly after, he was "cut off" , half way through week 62. (roughly 3 1/2 yrs)  and 8 weeks later the temple was destroyed.  Punishment.  Jerusalem given ample time to hear all the testimonies, word to keep spreading before Titus destroys the temple.  Time up.  70 yrs completed.

They were cut off at the resurrection as a nation, but still mercy is poured out to the few yet to come in and given ample time to flee Jerusalem right up until the final hour.

That's how I see it.  I don't want to argue with you anymore.  We just have to agree to disagree on this one, but you are welcome to reply and I will let you have the last say.

 

 

Edited December 22, 2016 by Sister
removed a final comment, because it was not necessary.

[Heb 13:8]

Matt 24:14 - We need to look behind a key word: world — this time, it isn’t aion, and it also isn’t kosmos, the word which indicates the broadest possible connotations.  This time, it is oikoumene, a word used to express only the Roman Empire (cf. Acts 11:28, Luke 2:1).

    It is significant that this is the only place Matthew uses this word; he has selected it carefully as a geographical delimitation; it is also significant that he has used this word rather than kosmos as he did with reference to the spreading of the Gospel correspondent with the separation of the justified and the wicked. The gospel had to be preached to the Roman Empire as a whole before the end of the age.

Marks recording of the Olivet Discourse says nations, not the whole world, as in the whole earth.

    Mark 13:10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.

oikoumené: the inhabited earth
Original Word: οἰκουμένη, ης, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: oikoumené
Phonetic Spelling: (oy-kou-men'-ay)
Short Definition: the inhabited (Roman) world
Definition: (properly: the land that is being inhabited, the land in a state of habitation), the inhabited world, that is, the Roman world, for all outside it was regarded as of no account.

[Heb 13:8]

Do you see all these things, now? Buildings that existed 2000 years ago? Why would Jesus ask the disciples, "Do you see all these things", if these things occur 2000 years later?

Matt 24:1 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings.

Matt 24:2 “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”

Matt 24:3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” when these things will be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

[Heb 13:8]

There goes that Greek again. Greek, God's chosen language..

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Matthew 24:30

The Greek word for ‘earth’, ‘ge’, does not mean the whole earth, but rather it means ‘country or land’, in this case the land of Israel.

    It’s the same word used in Matthew 2:20 “Saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and go into the land(ge) of Israel: for they are dead which sought the young child’s life.”

http://theolivetdisc...ivet-discourse/

[Heb 13:8]

And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24:31

Other references to Messiah’s return includes that the dead will rise first, but that is missing from this text, telling you that is not the proper context.

    The word angel (aggelos) doesn’t just point to the angels of heaven, but to leaders and messengers.

An example of messengers is in Luke 9:52, where the messengers were probably James and John.

    “And sent messengers (aggelos) before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him.“

The Early church had fled to the mountains. The Roman siege of Jerusalem is over.  Jerusalem lay in ruins, so there is no returning.   The leaders now are being sent out to proclaim the Gospel, to gather in the elect of Elohim, to continue their mission to all parts of the Roman world.

    Messiah has setup His kingdom. His temple is made up of His people.  His bride, called Holy Jerusalem, is His city to rule in.  He is the High Priest, and with a trumpet blast He is sending out His Israelite priests to all the world to gather in the harvest of the elect.

http://theolivetdiscourse.com/explanation-of-the-olivet-discourse/