Why does God let the Antichrist conquer the world?

[HAZARD]

1 hour ago, HAZARD said:

 

Show me one scripture which teaches that there will be people with the mark of the beast, alive  on the earth,  after the Antichrist has killed all those who have refused to take the mark, and God has sent those who did take the mark to Hell, during the Millennium farming and going up once a year to worship God and I will believe it.

 

 

 

[spiderman1917]

1 hour ago, eileenhat said:

I will add an aside.

If you followed along about souls being judged and not bodies, the question then would be, how does that work?

It is a mystery only resolved via an eye witness account of the actual occurrence.

Which i have attested too, did in fact already occur.

Since I can not prove it, I can at the bare minimum explain the 'how'.

Guess what, people can live without a soul.

The body just keeps right on going.

And it makes a very lovely place for an angel to inhabit as well.

All nice and prepared for them.

So yes, God can judge a man's soul (it is his fyi) and yes he can take it away and give the body to someone else.

And yes, he has a family in heaven made up of angels and Jesus right now.

And angels make good place holders.  I learned this as a child when God sent me a dog that he later revealed to me was an angel in a dog's body.

It really screwed me up about dogs thereafter because it was my first dog pet (for a few weeks) and I thought all dogs were telepathic (or just knew what to do without training).  lol.  No, I guess they arn't.  But it knew me and it listened and had fun with me and was the light of my life for that time.  I was bereaved when it left and never got over it.  It was only recently God divulged it was an angel to me.  So that is how I learned they visited humans here.

Hey, that's awesome!

[FresnoJoe]

9 hours ago, spiderman1917 said:

Isaiah 45:7 (King James Bible) I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

I recently realized the God I worship wants the Antichrist to reign and wants the Devil and his children to pull their shenanigans.

He isn't up there crying crocodile tears. He can make it stop at any time. He can defeat his enemies at the snap of a finger.

The Lord is responsible for the light and the darkness, blessed be the name of the Lord!  Blessed be his plans.  God's will be done!

The LORD Jesus Is The Light

The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up. from that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Matthew 4:16-17 (American King James Version)

And He Will Crush The Darkness

And the God of peace will quickly crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Romans 16:20 (World English Bible)

For You Are So Loved....

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only-begotten Son, that whoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 (Webster Bible Translation)

~

And As For The Anti-Christ, The LORD Will Stay In His Heaven

Then I will return to my lair until they have borne their guilt and seek my face-- in their misery they will earnestly seek me." Hosea 5:15 (New International Version)

Until His Beloved Israel Turns Back To Him

Then call on me when you are in trouble, and I will rescue you, and you will give me glory." Psalms 50:15 (New Living Translation)

And The Wrath Of Man

“Therefore behold, days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when it will no longer be said, ‘As the LORD lives, who brought up the sons of Israel out of the land of Egypt,’ but, ‘As the LORD lives, who brought up the sons of Israel from the land of the north and from all the countries where He had banished them.’ For I will restore them to their own land which I gave to their fathers.

“Behold, I am going to send for many fishermen,” declares the LORD, “and they will fish for them; and afterwards I will send for many hunters, and they will hunt them from every mountain and every hill and from the clefts of the rocks. Jeremiah 16:14-16 (New American Standard Bible)

Will Accomplish

Our eyes continually failed us as we looked in vain for help. From our watchtowers we watched for a nation that could not rescue us.

Our enemies hunted us down at every step so that we could not walk about in our streets. Our end drew near, our days were numbered, for our end had come! Those who pursued us were swifter than eagles in the sky. They chased us over the mountains; they ambushed us in the wilderness. Our very life breath – the Lord’s anointed king – was caught in their traps, of whom we thought, “Under his protection we will survive among the nations.”

Rejoice and be glad for now, O people of Edom,who reside in the land of Uz. But the cup of judgment will pass to you also; you will get drunk and take off your clothes.

O people of Zion, your punishment will come to an end; he will not prolong your exile. But, O people of Edom, he will punish your sin and reveal your offenses! Lamentations 4:17-22 (NET Bible)

That

then man prays to God, and he accepts him; he sees his face with a shout of joy, and he restores to man his righteousness. Job 33:26 (English Standard Version)

IMO

~

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27 (King James Bible)

Love, Your Brother Joe

~

Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. Psalms 119:160 (King James Bible)

The Bible contains the mind of God, the state of man, the way of salvation, the doom of sinners, and the happiness of believers. Its doctrines are holy, its precepts are binding, its histories are true, and its decisions are immutable.

Read it to be wise, believe it to be safe, and practice it to be holy. It contains light to direct you, food to support you, and comfort to cheer you.

It is the traveler’s map, the pilgrim’s staff, the pilot’s compass, the soldier’s sword and the Christian’s charter. Here too, Heaven is opened and the gates of Hell disclosed.

Christ is its grand subject, our good its design, and the glory of God its end. It should fill the memory, rule the heart and guide the feet. Read it slowly, frequently and prayerfully.  It is a mine of wealth, a paradise of glory, and a river of pleasure.

It is given you in life, will be opened at the judgment, and be remembered forever. It involves the highest responsibility, rewards the greatest labor, and will condemn all who trifle with its sacred contents.

From The Inside Of My Gideon New Testament

[Dennis1209]

Just a little comment pertaining to the 'timing' of the rapture.

I don't think many would disagree that the tribulation will be the worst time in human history, and ever will be. Tribulation is tribulation, so there will be tribulation in the first three and one half years of the seven year tribulation. The last three and one half years is the "great tribulation". That's the time of unimaginable horror, pain, judgement and wrath.

The Bible states we are not appointed unto wrath, my studies suggest and I firmly believe the wrath here spoken of is the seven year tribulation. The church (true Christians) are called the 'bride of Christ' in the Bible, any disagreement there?

If that's the case then... Would it make sense for Christ to allow His bride to get all beat up and abused before He came for her?

[Blue Lotus]

14 hours ago, spiderman1917 said:

Isaiah 45:7

King James Bible
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

I recently realized the God I worship wants the Antichrist to reign and wants the Devil and his children to pull their shenanigans.

He isn't up there crying crocodile tears. He can make it stop at any time. He can defeat his enemies at the snap of a finger.

The Lord is responsible for the light and the darkness, blessed be the name of the Lord!  Blessed be his plans.  God's will be done!

 

Amen and amen! 

I believe that  is why the saints of God are told to fasten the belt of truth around ourselves, don the breast plate of righteousness, put on the helmet of righteousness, and stand upon the gospel and carrying our shield of faith and the sword of the Spirit.Such is the armor of God. Being strong in the Lord and in his grace because the battle is the Lord's.   And we are to be ready. It takes courage to be a Christian in this world.  

[Diaste]

11 hours ago, HAZARD said:

Have you heard of the pre-trib rapture? You may stay if you wish but I wont be here. Christ is coming, He will meet us in the air, in the clouds, to take His church out of the world to protect them from the Tribulation.

As per the usual elitist attitude we once again see the illogic of the pretrib rapture. Here is a major difficulty with PreTrib: If it true, and it is, that believers are not appointed to wrath, and the whole 70th week is the Wrath of God, then how is it that millions, perhaps, of believers are in the Wrath of God according to PreTrib? The problem PreTrib faces is the equating of "great tribulation" with "wrath of God". Scripture says, Rev 7:14 "And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." So if then, "great tribulation" is the whole 70th week, and is the same as God's wrath, how can these believers come "out of great tribulation"? The answer is: They cannot. So either some believers ARE appointed to wrath, with which PreTrib would vehemently disagree, or the PreTrib premise is incorrect. 

 

The bible clearly states that the hinderer of lawlessness must be removed before the Antichrist is revealed,  2 Thess. 2:7-8, For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. V. 8, And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
There are only there things in the world today that hinder lawlessness. They are the church, the Holy Spirit and human governments. 

You cannot be serious here. You think the governance of mankind hinders evil? It must be a bad joke. Man's governments are the practitioners of evil. Don't you watch the news or read the paper? And the church hinders evil? Where is the proof of this? Even if any of this is true, which it is not, the 'hinderer'  is only preventing the beast from coming to power as that is the context of 2 Thess 2:7-8. Pay attention to this: "...until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed." The 'wicked' is the beast as is confirmed two verses later with this: "Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,"  No matter the identity of  "he who now letteth" the purpose is the withholding of the beast. 

The hinderer that will be taken out of the world must refer to one of these three things. It could not refer to the Holy Spirit and governments for neither will be taken out of the world. It is clear that governments will not be taken for the Antichrist will reign over the ten kingdoms during the tribulation (Dan. 7:23-24; Rev. 17:8-17). The Holy Spirit will be here during the tribulation, so He could not be the hinderer taken (Acts. 2:16-21; John 14:16; Rev. 7:14; 12:17; 19:10; Zech. 12:10).

The Church will be taken out of the world,  (1 Thess. 4:16; Eph. 5:26-27; 1 Cor. 15:51-58), so this must be the hinderer referred to

If you cannot understand how the church could be referred to as "he," see Eph. 2:15; 4:13 where the church is called a "man."

Eph 2:15 speaks of the joining of believers to Christ by abolishing the difference between Jew and Gentile. Two types made one; no more circumcision or uncircumcision, but now joined in Christ. Eph 4:13 speaks of the individual becoming Christlike. It's not a corporate statement. 

The purpose of the rapture is to resurrect the just from the dead and take all the saints out of the world before the tribulation comes, in order that they may have fulfilled in them the purpose for which God has saved them. Jesus told the disciples that some would escape the terrible things that were to transpire on the Earth in the last days. He said, “Pray that you may be accounted worth to escape all these things of, Matt. 24, 25; Luke 21:1-19, 25-28, that shall come to pass, and stand before the Son of man,” Luke 21:34-36. These two passages in Luke 21:34-36 and John 14:1-3, are the only ones in the Gospels that are clear concerning the Rapture. Jesus did not reveal this, it was revealed by Paul many years later in 1 Cor. 15:51. The disciples did not have the slightest idea as to how they were to escape, unless they thought that Christ would deliver them from these things through His power. The how was not revealed or even mentioned before Paul explained how they were to escape.
The Rapture of the church should never be confused with the second coming or second advent of Christ, for He does not come to the earth at that time.
The Rapture is a distinct coming in itself, not to the Earth, but in the air where Christ meets the saints and then takes them back to Heaven to present them blameless before God the Father, John 14:1-3; 1 Thess. 3:13; 4:16, 17.

Incorrect. Paul immutably links the Day of the Lord with the gathering of the elect. This is always left out of the discussion in the PreTrib position. 2 Thess 2:1, " Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him," Both events linked in time and space. Now if PreTrib were correct it would seem Paul should explain what the PreTrib gathering would look like as it would be meaningless to explain about the second coming when the rapture was supposed to occur years before the revealing of the beast and the return of the King at the Second Advent. But Paul does just the opposite. Why? Because all believers need to know what is coming before the coming of the Lord and the gathering; "

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God." Neither the rapture nor the coming of the Lord occur before the man of sin is revealed.

 

 

 

[Diaste]

14 hours ago, HAZARD said:

 

Show me one scripture which teaches that there will be people with the mark of the beast, alive  on the earth,  after the Antichrist has killed all those who have refused to take the mark, and God has sent those who did take the mark to Hell, during the Millennium farming and going up once a year to worship God and I will believe it.

I understand. But one has to keep in mind all of scriptural prophecy. All prophecy is God breathed and all must be true. One prophetic passage does not cancel another and neither can an entire doctrine be assembled upon a single passage. But lets quick look at the illogic of your statement above: You contend that either the beast kills everyone who refuses to take the mark, or that the Lord sends everyone to hellfire that took the mark, or that everyone who refused the mark and was not killed by the beast was raptured. So that's two groups: the mark bearers, and the non mark bearers. The mark bearers are sent to hell and the rest are dead at the hands of the beast and raptured. That accounts for everyone. Who then populates the earth and goes up to Jerusalem year after year? According to you, no one. Either the people are in heaven or hell after the coming of the Lord. 

Rev. 14:8, And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
   

V. 9, And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
   

V. 10, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the lamb:

V. 11,nd the smoke of their torment ascendeth up FOREVER AND EVER: and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever recieveth the MARK OF THE BEAST. 

Doesn't read like they will be farming and going up once a year to worship in the presence of the Lamb to me.

Yes, however both the above truth and the truth of Zech 14:16-18 must still be true, one does not cancel the other. So we need to come up with a conclusion that fits both Rev 14:8-11 and Zech 14:16-18. It's plausible that the torment of the above does not begin until the great judgement at the end of the millennium.  Seems like it would be merciful and just of the Lord to let them live until the judgement. In addition, we know from Zech 14:16-18 there will be rebels that refuse to worship the Lord year after year. They will not have rain and will be struck with a plague for their refusal. The same ones who fought for the beast armies, and against the Lord and Jerusalem, and likely worshiped the beast and/or took the mark. Prime candidates for negative judgement and fire and brimstone.

Well, you presented Zech 14:16-18 in an earlier post. Let me repost that.

16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem(This is the people of the nations that came against Jerusalem at Armageddon when Jesus comes down on the Mount of Olives. This means some are left alive of the armies of the beast that came against Jerusalem at the Second Coming. Since they ain't dead, they must have the mark of the beast.  Logic states that if these people are still on earth and alive, then they were not raptured by the Lord, and they were not killed by the beast because they took the mark, and if the Lord leaves them alive, then they probably have the mark. This also effectively rebuts your position that all are either raptured or cast in to the lake of fire becasue if true, then no one is left alive to go up to Jerusalem year after year.) shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.(Rain is important. If it's true, and it is, that the great earthquake at the coming of Jesus destroys all the cities, levels the mountains and move the islands from their places, then there ain't gonna be much left to do other than raise your own food, whether crops or animals. No rain would be devastating.)

18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.(and of course if they continue to refuse to go to Jerusalem then they get the plague.)

[Diaste]

2 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Just a little comment pertaining to the 'timing' of the rapture.

I don't think many would disagree that the tribulation will be the worst time in human history, and ever will be. Tribulation is tribulation, so there will be tribulation in the first three and one half years of the seven year tribulation. The last three and one half years is the "great tribulation". That's the time of unimaginable horror, pain, judgement and wrath.

The Bible states we are not appointed unto wrath, my studies suggest and I firmly believe the wrath here spoken of is the seven year tribulation. The church (true Christians) are called the 'bride of Christ' in the Bible, any disagreement there?

If that's the case then... Would it make sense for Christ to allow His bride to get all beat up and abused before He came for her?

Except for in the case of PreTrib some are appointed to wrath, aren't they? A great multitude comes from great tribulation which PreTrib equates with the wrath of God.  Then either some are appointed to wrath or great tribulation and wrath are not equivalent. 

At this point the bride of Christ is dirty and unworthy. She needs to be cleansed of impurity. Hence, great tribulation and the fire of the beast.

[HAZARD]

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

As per the usual elitist attitude we once again see the illogic of the pretrib rapture. Here is a major difficulty with PreTrib: If it true, and it is, that believers are not appointed to wrath, and the whole 70th week is the Wrath of God, then how is it that millions, perhaps, of believers are in the Wrath of God according to PreTrib? The problem PreTrib faces is the equating of "great tribulation" with "wrath of God". Scripture says, Rev 7:14 "And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." So if then, "great tribulation" is the whole 70th week, and is the same as God's wrath, how can these believers come "out of great tribulation"? The answer is: They cannot. So either some believers ARE appointed to wrath, with which PreTrib would vehemently disagree, or the PreTrib premise is incorrect. 

You cannot be serious here. You think the governance of mankind hinders evil? It must be a bad joke. Man's governments are the practitioners of evil. Don't you watch the news or read the paper? And the church hinders evil? Where is the proof of this? Even if any of this is true, which it is not, the 'hinderer'  is only preventing the beast from coming to power as that is the context of 2 Thess 2:7-8. Pay attention to this: "...until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed." The 'wicked' is the beast as is confirmed two verses later with this: "Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,"  No matter the identity of  "he who now letteth" the purpose is the withholding of the beast. 

Whilst I respect your opinions and your own personal understanding of Scripture, I totally disagree with all of it. and there is no elitist attitude in any of my posts. Remarks like this,  ("As per the usual elitist attitude,")   is bordering on personal attacks which you need to reign in.

I'm placing you on ignore.

[MissTury]

On 12/25/2016 at 6:39 AM, Dennis1209 said:

Would it make sense for Christ to allow His bride to get all beat up and abused before He came for her?

Is that how we answer questions of doctrine, by what makes sense to us? If that is so, then what do you do with the idea, that His bride has already been beat up for 20 centuries, without Him coming for her? 

Toodles