ZacharyB Posted December 23, 2016 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 49 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 410 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 175 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/20/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 23, 2016 18 hours ago, shiloh357 said: Anyone who is presented to God as holy and has been reconciled to God will continue in the faith. Because that's what Christians do. Your unfounded and very dangerous optimism is duly noted. Unfortunately, there are NT verses which warn of believers LOSING eternal life. Such as: the 10 which warn of the necessity of enduring in the faith until the end of life. Such as: Revelation 13 & 14, which warn of the results of taking the mark of the beast. Try it some time ... you won't like it. Oh, you'll love it until you die! ... Then, I promise you, you won't like being in hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZacharyB Posted December 23, 2016 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 49 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 410 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 175 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/20/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 23, 2016 (edited) 17 hours ago, Ezra said: Eternal life is either a gift or a reward. According to plain Scripture, it is a GIFT. That ANYONE can get into heaven is an incredible act of God's free GIFT of grace! Thus and therefore, if ANYONE is allowed to enter, it is by God's grace (undeserved favor). NOW ... please understand that God decides WHO will get in! For example, He can set up conditions for this. Now, you may say that fulfilling these conditions is WORKS. Then, the precious Holy Spirit would need to convince you otherwise. I cannot. For example, choosing to obey Jesus' commands is NOT works; it is just expected. Paul warns that choosing to be a slave of obedience leads to righteousness (Romans 6). Initially, you were declared righteous (positionally, like positional sanctification). However, both of these need to be continued on ... because ... There are NT verses for each of: practicing righteousness, and progressive sanctification. Edited December 23, 2016 by ZacharyB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZacharyB Posted December 23, 2016 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 49 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 410 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 175 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/20/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 23, 2016 (edited) 17 hours ago, shiloh357 said: There are no verses that say that. All the verses that refer to enduring to the end refer to persecution and the Tribulation and have nothing to do with eternal life. They are talking about being preserved through tribulation and persecution, not salvation of the soul. You are referring to: one must endure in the faith until death to receive eternal life. Those verses about enduring through tribulation until death most certainly do refer to eternal death. Then, there are all of those udder ones, which you don't even know exist! But, you don't want to see them, right? I understand, cows cant read ... good excuse. Edited December 23, 2016 by ZacharyB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted December 23, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,186 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,464 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted December 23, 2016 ZacharyB your issue lies on properly dealing with where you are ... please explain where this place, cosmos and world, is in Scriptures and its ultimate future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZacharyB Posted December 23, 2016 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 49 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 410 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 175 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/20/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 23, 2016 I love all of these royal members ... incredible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 51 minutes ago, ZacharyB said: Your unfounded and very dangerous optimism is duly noted. Unfortunately, there are NT verses which warn of believers LOSING eternal life.S There is not a single one. Quote such as: the 10 which warn of the necessity of enduring in the faith until the end of life. No, those are talking about enduring to the end of the end of the Tribulation and the church will not be here for that. That is not talking about Christians enduring to the end to see if they are saved or not. Quote Such as: Revelation 13 & 14, which warn of the results of taking the mark of the beast. Try it some time ... you won't like it. Oh, you'll love it until you die! ... Then, I promise you, you won't like being in hell. There won't be any Christians here to take the mark. You need to spend less time judging other people and more time dealing with the fact that you're not saved and you need to believe the Gospel for once and accept Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_S Posted December 23, 2016 Group: Servant Followers: 25 Topic Count: 275 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 5,208 Content Per Day: 1.00 Reputation: 1,893 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/02/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted December 23, 2016 3 hours ago, shiloh357 said: You need to spend less time judging other people and more time dealing with the fact that you're not saved and you need to believe the Gospel for once and accept Christ. Shiloh will be banned from the thread and issued a warning point for the above statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Lotus Posted December 23, 2016 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 105 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 63 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/23/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted December 23, 2016 On 12/22/2016 at 10:17 AM, ZacharyB said: John 14:23 • IF anyone loves Me, he will keep (obey) My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. John 15:14 • You are My friends, IF you do whatever I command you. Does anyone get into heaven who does not love Jesus, is not His friend, does not obey Him? Romans 8:13-14 • For IF you live according to the flesh you will die; but IF by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For as many as are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Romans 11:21-22 • For if God did not spare the natural branches (the Israelites), He may not spare you either. Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, IF you continue in His goodness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 1 Corinthians 15:2 • the gospel which I preached to you … by which also you are saved, IF you hold fast that word which I preached to you — unless you believed in vain. Galatians 5:18 • But IF you are being led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Colossians 1:21-23 • He has reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight — IF indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel Hebrews 3:6,14 • Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are IF we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end. … For we have become partakers of Christ IF we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end Hebrews 10:36-39 • For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise: “… Now the just shall live by faith; but IF anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him.” But we are not of those who draw back to perdition … So, the writer is a seer who knows who will do what in the future? No, this is wishful thinking … he does not say that God told him they would not fall back! 1 John 1:7-9 • But IF we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. … IF we confess our sins (to Him), He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 2:3 • Now by this we know that we know Him, IF we keep His commandments. The Greek in these passages do, in fact, mean "IF". In the Greek, there are sentence constructions that indicate whether or not something is conditional. The Greek word "ean" can mean since, or therefore, but when it is used in a construction that has "de" at the beginning of the sentence, it is making a conditional statement. Therefore, the author really is saying what the "IF" implies. (de) Condition #1 is true, "IF" (ean) condition #2 is met. Mercifully, I have left out a couple of the most troubling/condemning passages! Many other verses are conditional, even though they don’t have an “IF” in them, for example: Revelation 21:7-8 • He who overcomes shall inherit all things … and he shall be My son. This is the same as saying … IF you overcome, you shall inherit all things … and you shall be My son. Note: This is Jesus’ definition of who is an overcomer: Revelation 3:21 • To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. Some of the passages above are members of the category of verses which teach us: Believers must endure in their faith until the end of their lives to receive eternal life! Yes, both sanctification and salvation are life-long processes. What branch or denomination are you a member of? It sounds like you don't think you're assured of your salvation while alive. And that you have to be a legalist in order to find out after you're dead and before the throne of judgment whether or not you obtain eternal life. Am I wrong there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZacharyB Posted December 27, 2016 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 49 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 410 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 175 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/20/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 27, 2016 (edited) On 12/23/2016 at 1:44 PM, Blue Lotus said: What branch or denomination are you a member of? It sounds like you don't think you're assured of your salvation while alive. And that you have to be a legalist in order to find out after you're dead and before the throne of judgment whether or not you obtain eternal life. Am I wrong there? Pentecostal/Charismatic. Believers may indeed be assured of their salvation ... IF they are obedient to what they have been commanded to do in the NT. Quite simple, really. The Problem is: most people in the western churches ... have been grossly deceived by Satan through their churches! "Satan is the god/ruler of this world/age" (John 12:31, 2 Cor 4:4)! Most have been taught a false easy-grace OSAS doctrine! Edited December 27, 2016 by ZacharyB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heb 13:8 Posted December 28, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 35 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,533 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 382 Days Won: 1 Joined: 11/03/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted December 28, 2016 On 12/23/2016 at 1:35 PM, Steve_S said: Shiloh will be banned from the thread and issued a warning point for the above statement. Shiloh?? Wha???? It is a new dawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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