many churches or one church

[Guest yod]

Hey AnotherTraveller

I really liked that.

[Fiosh]

Another Traveler said, "The early church, even the Apostles, and the elders, were recorded in scriptures as meeting together and discussing matters and making decisions that were needed on relevant issues of their day, as well as doctrinal issues. Paul the apostle submitted himself to them "lest he should run, or had run in vain". Paul was not a rebel, he was an apostle sent out of due season."

BINGO!!!!. A.T. That is exactly it. Paul submitted to "the church". So, it stands to reason that we should submit to "the church". And, that's exactly my question. To which "church" do we submit.

I don't believe that the Holy Spirit would let us flounder in our ignorance. I believe there exists a true church . I believe there exists a "vein" of Truth running thru history from Christ until today; unaltered, undefiled, untouched by human frailty & faults, guarded by God Himself.

[nebula]

Yes, you have been saying that for quite a while.

I'm still waiting for you to get to telling us which "church" is supposed to be this "one."

[Fiosh]

Nebula: "Yes, you have been saying that for quite a while.

I'm still waiting for you to get to telling us which "church" is supposed to be this "one."

I'm not sure that I can "tell" you that. You need to arrive at that decision yourself.

I have made that decision for myself. But, it's been my experience that when you try to "tell" people what they should believe, it's not a good approach.

[truesunn]

"...For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, and whosoever shall believeth in him shall not perish, but have ever lasting life..." John 3:16

He does not say here "whosoever is pentecostal" or "whosoever is baptist" or "whosoever is lutheran" etc.

I believe anyone that accepts Jesus Christ as their savior is part of "THE CHURCH". Sects were created by man because of theological/interpretational differences.

[Guest yod]

Fiosh,Mar 26 2005, 12:54 PM]

[AnotherTraveler]

I believe there exists a true church . I believe there exists a "vein" of Truth running thru history from Christ until today; unaltered, undefiled, untouched by human frailty & faults, guarded by God Himself.

I agree with the first sevn word sentence, it is true. Your second "I believe" statement is not a biblical truth. The problem with the "untouched" part is that God uses weakness to display His strength, He uses foolishness to display His wisdom, and He takes the weak to confound the strong, and gives treasures to the very poorest ones.

There is a true church, and it is the body of committed, repented, humble, and loving believers. This great people are scattered all over the face of the earth and throughout the denominations, the non denominations, and all other kinds of expressions of Christianity that there are. The wheat grow with the tares, and the sorting is NOT man's job.

There will be in the same house one taken and another left, in the same bed, in the same field! They may be preaching together, and one will be taken, and the other left.

I know that an answer of "group A" is the church would please the members of group A, but the truth is Jesus is NOT confined to a group, a city, an organization, a race, or any other simple formula. Can you see the hearts of men? I can't. Jesus can and does, and He knows those that are His.

There is a great hidden truth in communion. The scripture says, "for this cause many are sickly, and many are dead (sleep)". For what cause? Not discerning the body of the Lord. I am a tiny part of His body, and I can usually discern that someone else is also.

What a terrible thing it is if the Holy Spirit is given to someone that I think is not worthy to have received it! NO! God knows those that are His, and he makes no difference between them and us, in that He gave them the Holy Spirit like He did us!

Jesus took the perfection of all truth (Himself) and HE came to live in us (the weak and lowly and yet unperfected), and allowed the truth that He is to be touched by us, handled by us, but He warns us to be careful how we handle the truth. Jesus did not come to condemn the world, but to save it.

Why do we come? If to condemn, then we are coming at cross purposes with the reason that the Lord came, and we are actually fighting against God! Many of God's people that get the big head turn on their weaker or less mature brethren and become cannible sheep, be really careful not to do this.

I love to be around the very young and the very old in Christ. The very young are so pure in heart and full of first love for the Lord, and the very old have a seasoned faith and love of mercy that has produced a trust that you can feel, a closeness with the Lord that is just wonderful to be around. These are so clearly the church, to me.

[Gerioke]

I've been adherant to several denominations in my walk. Charismatic, pentacostal,baptist and church of christ. Although each church had a different approach than the last, they all had relevance. Different people have different needs. The common denominater is that Jesus died for our sins and He loves us more than we could possibly fathom. Jesus is the church.

[Fiosh]

God is so loving and gracious to His struggling children, isn't He? I thank Him for giving us the benefit of worshipping in a community. I find it incredible that he cares enough for me, as weak and fickle as I am, to send people into my life, at the very moment I need them, to affirm my faith.

I would not condemn anyone, especially not a sincere believer, whatever their denomination. Today I had the opportunity to speak with a beautiful Japanese woman in a nursing home; she had a stroke a few months ago. She told me that she is 73 years old, and a Buddhist. She was married to an American service man who was Christian.

I asked her if she knew why this week was important to me as a Christian. She responded, "Good Friday Jesus die on cross. Sunday He raise from the dead."

We talked a bit about God's love for us.

Even a Buddhist is drawn to Jesus.

I believe that one day the Father will answer Jesus' prayer that we all be one.

Until that time, we struggle on. And, in our search for Truth, we continue to discuss our beliefs and argue our points. As long as we do it in the spirit of love, I don't see anything wrong with a good debate.

I don't mean to sound as if I "condemn" or "turn on" anyone. I'm just sharing my beliefs. If you care to disagree, I welcome your point of view.

I've learned alot from my sisters and brothers from other denominations; ESPECIALLY those whom I disagree with.

The Scripture you made reference to:

"There is a great hidden truth in communion. The scripture says, "for this cause many are sickly, and many are dead (sleep)". For what cause? Not discerning the body of the Lord. I am a tiny part of His body, and I can usually discern that someone else is also. "

...is from I Corinthians 11: 28.

Read the passage in context, beginning with verse 23. Clearly Paul is referring to the bread and wine given to us as the body and blood of Jesus. He's saying that if you don't discern Communion as more than simply bread & wine, and eat it anyway, you eat and drink a judgement against yourself (by not recognizing the truth Christ proclaimed at the Last Supper)

Now there's a Truth I'd love to discuss with you, A.T.

Peace,

Fiosh

[Guest yod]

Read the passage in context, beginning with verse 23. Clearly Paul is referring to the bread and wine given to us as the body and blood of Jesus. He's saying that if you don't discern Communion as more than simply bread & wine, and eat it anyway, you eat and drink a judgement against yourself (by not recognizing the truth Christ proclaimed at the Last Supper)

Now there's a Truth I'd love to discuss with you, A.T.

Peace,

you will probably find some difference of opinion on that one here.

OK. You obviously buy the whole circular reasoning line of Catholicism...but before you go debating Protestants you should understand that I don't consider myself either. This is precisely why I'm messianic. The roots of the church are neither Roman nor German. They predate the Catholic church by 3 millennia only in the jewish people.

Matza and wine do not turn into flesh and blood literally. It is figuratively speaking and that is what the doctrine of men will give you. Hocus pokus.

The prohibition against drinking blood was before the Law with Noah, repeated by Moses, and again BY THE ORIGINAL CHURCH AFTER THE ASCENSCION OF JESUS INTO HEAVEN.

It is the ONLY commandment which God repeated 3 times.

And besides that, my brain knows the difference in the taste of dough and grape juice.

Now I realize that looks like a swing at things you hold dear but this is a discussion group and I have said nothing about you personally. You seem to want a tussle over the authority of Rome so go ahead and get it out of your system.

Maybe start another thread?

But I always hate it when christians fight each other over which man gets to sit beside Jesus.

I bet that He does too.