Do all Babies go to heaven? YES

[Never Alone]

The concept of    "   the  term  -   Limbo   "     was debated for about 700 years by Roman Catholics from the 12th century to the 19 th century.  However the concept dealing with the fate of unbaptized babies has been debated since St Augustine in the 4th century.

 Here is why Catholics are guided to dispel  and  remove   -   the term   -    "  LIMBO  "  before this can be discussed.

 they  prefer   -  please  do  not  use  the  word  Limbo

As for the afterlife, the fate and eternal destiny of unbaptized babies    /  a baby who was not baptized into Roman Catholicism,  their fate after death has been something that The Catholic scholars for centuries have debated.

  According to church catechisms or teachings related to the  4th  century,  father  St. Augustine is seen as attempting in his writings to answer this question....   Do babies who were not Roman Catholic   -   that haven not been sprinkled with holy water carry the original sin

 The Catholic scholars have asked  -     will these babies who die be accepted in heaven and will these innocent beings, be sent to eternal hell fire.  

 Upon  the  Vatican  Website    

https://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/cti_documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20070419_un-baptised-infants_en.html

 we can find the following material relating to    " CATHOLIC  LIMBO  "  

 this  Vatican  website states that      -   -    St. Augustine's thought and theories and doctrines regarding the fate of unbaptized infants were brought up or revived in the 16th century  .....   The   Vatican website goes on to state that this was brought up by a 16th century  Sect or  group following " who followed a theory called Augustinianism along with a mixture of  Jansenism faiths. 

 The Vatican website explains that  -  Catholic theologians of the Augustinian school,  {   the Jansenists  }  ,  greatly opposed the theory of Limbo.

  and that then   Paul III, Benedict XIV  and also  Clement XIII)  defended and upheld the right of Catholics to teach Augustine's views theories and doctrines regarding babies dying under original sin who    (  these  babies  )   are condemned and to punished with the eternal torment of the fire in hell    BUT   the  baby  would  only  suffer  forever  in  eternity  feeling   a   very,   very    mild  pain,    {    not  too  hot.....  for the  baby  whom  was was not  a  Roman  Catholic.

   The Vatican website also describes how that St. Augustine elaborated on the pain that the baby would feel as he detailed   -   comparing of the baby who was not Roman Catholic with the pain that was suffered by adults who were punished for their mortal sins. 

 in conclusion    -    Pius VI pronounced that it is perfectly fine to teach that babies who died with the guilt of original sin are punished but only punishment of   "   complete lack of the Beatific Vision   "   called  

(“punishment of loss”),   -  but  not  sensible  pains     not  -  (  the punishment of   "fire"  ).

 

 Pius VI  resolved this matter    "   In the bull “Auctorem Fidei” (1794)   "   the Pope condemned the teaching that places babies into  hell  fire  and  flames  and  pain  who have not baptized and whose  sins  are  ONLY  the  sin  of   "  ORIGINAL  SIN  " 

  Pius VI  also called    """   ‘    Limbo  of   Children   ""    was not the same punishment as the punishment of the condemned as   -   punishment of fire....

 The website -  goes on to clarify that the Vatican declines to label this as   LIMBO  ‘  Limbo of Children  and explains that   -    Limbo,   was the common Catholic teaching until the mid-20th century.

 The  Vatican and  Pope  in  essence -  teaches that the term  "   LIMBO  ‘  Limbo of Children  ""  is a term directly connected to a painful hell and eternal flame of hell for unbaptized babies  and  that although the unbaptized baby will die and go to a punishment,  but the punishment was not the same punishment as the punishment of the condemned who will burn in eternal flames    -   punishment of fire.... 

 

The Vatican also promotes this teaching but also not until  "   IN  THE  20 th  CENTURY   "  the  Church Authority  has clarified only recently in the  19th  and  20th  centuries  -   saying that the eventual   fate  of the unbaptized innocent baby  who is  not  catholic,  their  final destination /   judgment day determination /  judgment and eventual fate after purgatory will be based upon God's mercy.

 and this is not called Limbo any longer,      -      after  nearly  2000 years of limbo confusion  there still  is  unresolve  for  those   babies who  have  minds  incapable  of  understanding   Jesus

 

as  if  Jesus  is  incapable  of  redeeming  and  saving   or  even  understanding  the  mind  of  a  little  child    without  first  punishing  the  child  for  the  adults  failure  to  baptize  the  child  in  Catholic  Tradition.   

the  child's  undeveloped  mind   is  punished  in  death  and  this  Catholic   punishment  will  be  the  salvation  to  the  child.

 

[Your closest friendnt]

@Never Alone 

We have a lot in the scriptures to shed the light in many of our questions. 

I am not going to say if the doctrine of the original sin has any value or not. But the question has been raised about the original sin. From scripture we should say the effects of Adam's disobedience upon mankind. 

From scripture Adam disobeyed God

And God did not say that Adam sin, he only said that Adam disobeyed. 

Why people say that Adam sin when they know that God said that Adam disobeyed Him. God defined Adam's disobedience as disobedience and not as sin. From scriptures that is known people claim that if Adam had sin God will have nothing to do with Adam. But God justified himself when he said Adam disobeyed God and did not consider his disobedience as sin because he continued to give his fellowship to Adam and Eve and to his children in a similar way as he did when they were in the Garden. 

Edited September 30, 2023 by Your closest friendnt

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

Yes, scripture very strongly says ALL babies and children go to Heaven if they die before a certain age of accountability. HOWEVER, it is NOT because they are innocent as even children are born sinful and commit sin. God saves them because he is merciful and gracious and kind. 

[Jaydub]

1 hour ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

Yes, scripture very strongly says ALL babies and children go to Heaven if they die before a certain age of accountability. HOWEVER, it is NOT because they are innocent as even children are born sinful and commit sin. God saves them because he is merciful and gracious and kind. 

 I dis agree with this statement. it is NOT because they are innocent as even children are born sinful.

If that statement is true. Jesus was born guilty, born in sin. We are born with a sin nature not with the guilt of sin. 

 

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

Yes, scripture very strongly says ALL babies and children go to Heaven if they die before a certain age of accountability. HOWEVER, it is NOT because they are innocent as even children are born sinful and commit sin. God saves them because he is merciful and gracious and kind. 

If you feel comfortable with that and that's how you want to keep it, and you do not want to bring up scripture to support your HOWEVER...Where the HOWEVER is in the scriptures...some Scripture for discussion...what else are we supposed to discuss, but scripture...

 

1 minute ago, Jaydub said:

 I dis agree with this statement. it is NOT because they are innocent as even children are born sinful.

If that statement is true. Jesus was born guilty, born in sin. We are born with a sin nature not with the guilt of sin. 

 

We have to follow Adam and his children and we will see that God continues to fellowship with them as he did while in the Garden. And his fellowship with Cain ended while he yet live. When he told him he sin when he kill his brother. 

Before that he fellowship with Cain...if he was in Sin because of his father God would not fellowship with neither Adam or his children. 

Capable of committing a sin yes, because they had the knowledge of what is right or wrong. And because God has given the ability to choose to sin or not to sin.

By sinful nature what is that as there is not such thing in scripture. But what is in scripture that you call it "sinful nature"?

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

Yes, scripture very strongly says ALL babies and children go to Heaven if they die before a certain age of accountability. HOWEVER, it is NOT because they are innocent as even children are born sinful and commit sin. God saves them because he is merciful and gracious and kind. 

There is uncertainty in your post...the time came when the world was divided with Abraham....and we have the world before Abraham, and the world with Abraham and the Circumcision and later with the Law of God. We had the children of God in Abraham without the Law of God and later we have the children of God with the Law of God and then we have the world with the reign of Jesus Christ. 

Your comments must show the time period...that can fit into it. 

Like Adam and his children...

God fellowship with them in the same way he fellowship with Adam before his disobedience. Even though all were under the effects of Adam's disobedience. 

And the fellowship between God and Cain ended the time Cain sin and while he still lived, but his fellowship with Abel ended when Abel died...and Abel died as a righteous man. Did he not?

[LaMonte]

No, Like in the Days of Noah, only 8 were saved. 

 

[Your closest friendnt]

4 minutes ago, LaMonte said:

No, Like in the Days of Noah, only 8 were saved. 

 

Who said that and why did he say that. He must have said a lot of other things at the same time...but does it have anything to do with the proposed of this discussion, if it does let us know, so we can discuss it. 

Edited September 30, 2023 by Your closest friendnt

[Your closest friendnt]

28 minutes ago, LaMonte said:

No, Like in the Days of Noah, only 8 were saved. 

 

They were saved from the  flood..and continued to live their lives after as usual. 

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

1 hour ago, LaMonte said:

No, Like in the Days of Noah, only 8 were saved. 

 

And that part too has alot to do with God sparing a particular place if it had over a certain number of righteous, unless it fell under a certain number righteous .

For example, Abraham asked the LORD, if there was a certain amount of people"within the city, for example Sodom, and he asks (Genesis 18:24) wilt Thou also destroy and not spare the place" ? And The LORD said he would spare the place if as many as fifty righteous abide there. Then ofcourse,  Abraham keeps asking, and ends up wittling those numbers all the way down to "ten righteouess" when  he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake. Gen 18:32

So LORD would not destroyed the place with everyone in it for just "10 righteous" in any given place. And as with Noah, where there were just 8 souls, as with Lot there was just him and his family (which were half the souls than Noah had) and so in both places they were delivered whereas the rest were destroyed. The number of righteous in a place would spare the place and all the rest of them from being destroyed.

Noah and his family being saved out of that place was two below  that "tens sake" being "eight in all". And Lot's family (although not by water, but in his time, by faire) had even less souls with him, even half of Noah's.

Shows between them as things progress the less souls are being shown escaping between the pictures of water and fire.

 

 

Edited September 30, 2023 by AFlameOfFire