In heaven during 1,000 year reign?

[Keras]

4 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

So Keras,

can you explain what will be  `truly amazing and the fulfilment of our destiny,` please?

Marilyn.

The Prophetic Word is clear: God WILL have a people living in all of His holy Land and they will be living there, in peace and prosperity before the Return of Jesus. This was always God's desire and He chose Abraham to father the people who would be His witnesses and who would display His Light to the nations. Ancient Israel failed their task, so He sent Jesus to open the way of salvation to all who would believe in Him and obey His Commandments. Isaiah 35:1-10, Ezekiel 34:11-31, Psalms 107, plus many others like: Romans 9:24-27, that says we Christians are now called the sons of the Living God. Verse 27 says of ethnic Israel, that; only a remnant will be saved.  Zechariah 13:7-9  +

THIS is our destiny and our privilege to be alive at this time, to be part of God's great Plan. NOT to go to heaven, something that isn't actually stated anywhere in the Bible, but to do the work God has for us to do; the fulfilling task of restoring the Land and building the new Temple.    The Bible verse I received at my Baptism was; Zechariah 6:15 

[Marilyn C]

15 minutes ago, Keras said:

The Prophetic Word is clear: God WILL have a people living in all of His holy Land and they will be living there, in peace and prosperity before the Return of Jesus. This was always God's desire and He chose Abraham to father the people who would be His witnesses and who would display His Light to the nations. Ancient Israel failed their task, so He sent Jesus to open the way of salvation to all who would believe in Him and obey His Commandments. Isaiah 35:1-10, Ezekiel 34:11-31, Psalms 107, plus many others like: Romans 9:24-27, that says we Christians are now called the sons of the Living God. Verse 27 says of ethnic Israel, that; only a remnant will be saved.  Zechariah 13:7-9  +

THIS is our destiny and our privilege to be alive at this time, to be part of God's great Plan. NOT to go to heaven, something that isn't actually stated anywhere in the Bible, but to do the work God has for us to do; the fulfilling task of restoring the Land and building the new Temple.    The Bible verse I received at my Baptism was; Zechariah 6:15 

Hi Keras,

Thank you for your thoughts. Now I see that as concerning Israel. So we differ there bro.

Marilyn.

 

[Limey_Bob]

12 hours ago, Keras said:

Thanks Bob.

Yes, at present the citizenship and the rewards of all true Christians is kept in heaven. But we are earth beings, made to live here, God has angels to serve Him in the spiritual realm.    Very soon, the world will experience a tremendous change, a similar disaster as what happened 'in the days of Noah', this time by fire. A One World Gove will be formed, but all who stand firm in their faith in God during that terrible Day, Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21, will be protected and will receive the call to travel to the holy Land. Psalm 107, Ezekiel 34:11-16

So the holy people of God will be in all of the holy Land; as the new nation of Beulah. Isaiah 62:1-5; Romans 9:24-26 + WE will be the ones who will greet Jesus with; Blessed is He that comes in the Name of the Lord!  And we will rule with Him during the Millennium.

logostelos.info

Thank you Keras for this insight. I live in the UK, but am I right in saying that in the USA that dispensational theology is far more influential than here in Europe?

[Keras]

16 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Keras,

Thank you for your thoughts. Now I see that as concerning Israel. So we differ there bro.

Marilyn.

How much of this do you differ with?

The true Christian Ekklesia is the Israel of God  Galatians 6:16

Those believers who love the Lord and keep His commandments, that is: the true Christian Church are deemed by God to be Israelites. The New Testament writings are clear: there is only one Israel, only one Church, only one elect, whether they be Jew or Gentile by birth.

1/ Israel, the chosen people of God: Exodus 15:13, Deut. 33:3, Ezra 3:11

    Christians, chosen of God: Rom. 9:25, Eph. 5:1, Col. 3:12, 1 John 3:1, Rev. 7:9   

2/ Israel, the children of God: Deut. 14:1, Isa.1:2-4, Isa 63:8, Hosea 11:1

     Christians, the children of God: John 1:12, Rom. 8:14-16, Gal. 4:5-7, 1 John 3:1    

3/ Israel, the scattered sheep of God: Psalm 78:52, Isa. 40:11, Jer. 23:1-4, Eze 34:12

     Christians, His sheep: among the nations: John 10:14-16, Heb. 13:20, 1 Peter 2:25

4/ Israel, God’s household: Hebrews 3:5, 1 Chron. 29:14-18

     Christians are God’s household: Hebrews 3:6, Heb. 10:20-21, I Tim. 3:15, 1 Cor.3:9

5/ Israel are the priests of God: Exodus 19:6, Deut. 27:9

     Christians are the priests of God: Isa. 66:21, 1 Peter 2:5-9, Rev. 1:6, Rev. 5:10

6/ Israel is the bride of God: Isaiah 54:5-6, Jer. 2:2, Eze. 16:32, Hosea 1:2

     Christians are the bride of Christ: Isaiah 62:4-5, 2 Cor. 11:2, Ephesians 5:29-32

7/ Israel is the vine and the olive tree: Isaiah 5:7, Hosea 9:10, Hosea 14:6-7

     Christians are the vine and the olive: Luke 20:16, Romans 11:24

8/ Israelites are the circumcised: Genesis 17:9-14, Judges 15:18

     Christians are the ‘circumcised’: Romans 2:25-29, Phil. 3:3, Col. 2:11

9/ Israelites are the children of Abraham:  2 Chron. 20:7, Psalm 105:5-6, Isa. 41:8

     Christians are the spiritual children of Abraham: Rom. 4:13-18, Gal. 3:7& 29, John 4:23

10/ The Covenant is with Israel: Deut. 4:31, 2 Kings 17:34-36, Psalm 105:7-10

      The New Covenant is with Christians: 1 Cor. 11:25, Hebrews 8:6-10, Eze. 34:25

 

The above 10 proofs totally negate any argument that the Church and Israel are 2 separate entities. That premise is held and promoted by the pre-trib rapture exponents, who must have 2 groups; one removed to heaven, [themselves] and the Jews, [Israel] who remain on earth to face the Great Tribulation. They say all the Jews eventually accept Jesus as Messiah.

The truth is proven by how it is true Christian believers of every nation and language, Rev. 7:9, who gather in the holy Land soon after the Sixth Seal judgement/punishment of the nations. Hab. 3:12 They will be assigned to an appropriate Israelite tribe, according to each family’s characteristics. Then the 144,000 will be selected; 12,000 from each tribe, to go out and proclaim the coming Kingdom of Jesus. Rev 14:1-7, Isa 66:19

This new nation in the Middle East, will be called Beulah; Isaiah 62:1-5 They will live in peace and prosperity and when a large army comes down from the North, God will destroy them. Ezekiel 38-39, Joel 2:20

Sometime later, the President of the One World Government will come to Beulah and convince ‘many’ of them to sign a seven year treaty of peace. Daniel 11:27, Isaiah 28:14-15 This marks the commencement of the final seven years of this age and is the 70^th year of Daniel 9:24, then at the mid-point, the O.W.G. dictator will invade and conquer Beulah. Zech. 14:1-2, Daniel 11:30-32, which triggers the Great Tribulation of the seven Trumpet and seven Bowl punishments. Rev. 12:7-13 But those Israelites who ‘faithful to their God’, will be taken to a place of safety, as described in Revelation 12:14. Then at the Return of Jesus, those faithful ones, the righteous ‘woman’: Christians, will experience a ‘rapture’ as they are gathered by the Lord’s angels ‘from the four winds’. Matthew 24:31 They will join the resurrected saints and will enjoy the great blessings of the Millennium. Isaiah 65:17-25

[Keras]

13 hours ago, Limey_Bob said:

Thank you Keras for this insight. I live in the UK, but am I right in saying that in the USA that dispensational theology is far more influential than here in Europe?

I am a New Zealander, currently living in the Philippines. Check out my thread in General discussion about what we are doing here. Also, I would like your comment on my logostelos website.

Re Disp. Theology;  the sad fact is that most Americans and a large percentage of Christians around the world, have only been taught the 'rapture' theory. This false teaching has gained wide popularity, as it means people do not have to do anything other that accept Jesus as Lord, to be whisked into heaven before anything serious happens. The time has come, just as 2 Timothy 4:4-6 says; that people will believe fables.  Satanic lies, in fact.

However, all is how God wants it to be and when things do start happening; namely the terrible Day of the Lord's wrath, that will affect everyone worldwide, Luke 21:34-35, then those who have been fooled by their teachers, may renounce their faith, to their eternal shame.

 

 

[Limey_Bob]

On 3/30/2017 at 5:12 PM, bornagain2011 said:

We have some friends who after doing some Bible studies now believe that we will be in heaven with Jesus during the 1,000 year reign and that New Jerusalem is for the Jews not His church. 

I showed them scripture showing that Jesus reigns on earth with us during 1,000 years, but they said Jesus is omnipresent so He is up in heaven with us and ruling down on earth with the Jews that came out of the tribulation alive.

It doesn't sound like anything I've learned from the scriptures.

What are your thoughts?

I never said this, you are misquoting me and using a straw man argument against me. I never said that we will be in heaven during the millennium, I was talking about the deceased saints (called Souls) of Revelation 20:4. I never said that Jesus is up in heaven yet he is with the Jews on earth ... I don't even understand this point of yours, I had previously spoken about Christ's omnipresence in a completely different context. Please be fair to me and to try to understand me rather than simply misrepresent me.

[Marcus O'Reillius]

On ‎4‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 5:11 AM, Keras said:

The Prophetic Word is clear:

Everything after the word "clear" is a conclusion and not a fact.
 

On ‎4‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 5:11 AM, Keras said:

NOT to go to heaven, something that isn't actually stated anywhere in the Bible

Actually, it is stated in the Bible, but it doesn't fit with keras' way of thinking, which he believes is God's Truth.

He also thinks the sun will burst forth and flame the earth on the day God heals those whom He has injured (previously in the desolations) in Isaiah 30:26.

[Keras]

12 hours ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

Everything after the word "clear" is a conclusion and not a fact.

A bald statement like this, is simply foolishness and an indictment on the one who makes it.  I can back up everything I say with Bible verses.

It is the 'rapture' believers who have a problem in proving their case from scripture. You assert that the Bible says God will take people into heaven.  Post the scripture that actually says that, or be forever branded as a false teacher. 

Yes, the souls of those killed for their faith, from Stephen until Jesus' Return, are kept under the Altar in heaven. Rev 6:9-11  But living Christians? Never; only those martyrs who have proved their faith unto death.  We Christians have assigned tasks to do here, there is no escape from our responsibilities.

 

Edited April 12, 2017 by Keras

[Retrobyter]

On 3/30/2017 at 0:12 PM, bornagain2011 said:

We have some friends who after doing some Bible studies now believe that we will be in heaven with Jesus during the 1,000 year reign and that New Jerusalem is for the Jews not His church. 

I showed them scripture showing that Jesus reigns on earth with us during 1,000 years, but they said Jesus is omnipresent so He is up in heaven with us and ruling down on earth with the Jews that came out of the tribulation alive.

It doesn't sound like anything I've learned from the scriptures.

What are your thoughts?

Shalom, bornagain2011.

No, there's no difference between Jew and Gentile in Christ. That's one of Paul's basic teachings to the Galatians:

Galatians 3:26-29
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
KJV

He repeated this to the Colossians,...

Colossians 3:9-11
9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
KJV

and to the Romans:

Romans 1:15-17
15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
KJV

Romans 10:11-13
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
KJV

This "no difference" does NOT transfer to others OUTSIDE of the Messiah. Outside of the Messiah, there's still a difference between Jews and Gentiles.

Romans 2:25-3:2
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles (Greek: ta logia = "the words") of God.
KJV

We learn more later in Romans:

Romans 11:7-29
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.
9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumbling block, and a recompence unto them:
10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead (resurrection)?
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural (genetically compatible) branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election (the chosen seed of Israel), they are beloved for the fathers' (the Patriarchs') sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. (God does not renege on His promises!)
KJV

And, in Ephesians 2, we learn...

Ephesians 2:1-22
1 And you (Roman Gentiles) hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ (without a Messiah), being aliens from the commonwealth (citizenship) of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus (in the Messiah Yeshua`) ye (Roman Gentiles) who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ (the blood of the Messiah).
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain (two) one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you (Roman Gentiles) which were afar off, and to them (Jews) that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye (Roman Gentiles) are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints (the holy ones = the ones set apart for God), and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles (the ones sent by Yeshua`) and prophets (the spokesmen for God), Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone (the head capstone);
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
KJV

All these verses prove that we, Jews and Gentiles, are the SAME in the Messiah Yeshua`.  So, why should half of the ONE BODY be "in heaven" while the other half of the ONE BODY be on earth during the Millennium?

[Marcus O'Reillius]

4 hours ago, Keras said:

A bald statement like this, is simply foolishness and an indictment on the one who makes it.  I can back up everything I say with Bible verses.

Oh you can?  Like how Isaiah 30:26 says the sun will eject its coronal mass and burn a third of the earth?

My statement is a truism.  Any time, somebody is going take a prophecy, or all prophecy in your case, and say: "It is clear..." ~ you can be sure it is anything BUT clear, but rather their strongly held belief resulting from their own delusional thinking.