Is Maryology Idolatry?

[Spock]

38 minutes ago, warrior12 said:

Caring and seeking after your brother is a commendable thing and  it is good that you also seek the ear and words of others in matters that is of utmost importance, i.e the soul.   As others have said, if what he believes in question one is not lining up with the word, then he is in error of his theology.   As to question two, scripture states clearly that God is a spirit and those who worship him must do so in spirit and truth John 4:24.   Also God is a jealous God and does not share his glory with another.    God of the Bible has given specific commands not to make any images and look to those imgaes.   If a believer is doing what is strictly forbidden by God, then what outcome is expected.   A believer cannot have Idols in his presence or bow down before them, God hates  it and i can't see how one can be saved and willfully go against Gods commandment.   But, i am not the judge of anyone's salvation, and therefore is not casting any stones. 

The dogmas of this church is persuading many to follow false doctrines.

 

⁸ Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:

⁹ Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I theLord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,

You bring up a good point. My brother is all in when it comes to Catholic doctrine and dogma. He is like a sponge- he absorbs it all in and he doesn't seem to question any of it.  This thought makes me think.....maybe he has to  REPENT from this thinking in order to allow the teaching and power of the word from the Holy Bible to enter into him. I wonder if this has to happen before God can invade his body!  I don't know.....just thinking out loud. 

I mean, The Bible vs. Catholic Tradition and Doctrine, and guess who is winning? I still have a hard time believing a true believer who has the Holy Spirit of God Indwelling is not the least bit convicted of this gross sin of idolatry. Isn't that one of the roles of the HS according to John 14-17?  To convict of sin.

Heck, if I just look at another woman with even a hint of improper intentions, the Spirit in me is SHOUTING AT ME- pluck your eye out dude!   Why isn't the HS shouting at these "believers" to not bow down, pray, worship Jesus' mother?  Nada! 

And speaking of images. The church he attends has a huge globe with Mary on top of the world crushing the serpent's head!  Do you believe that?  Mary crushing the serpent's head, not Jesus!  How can those people, the believers, not feel uneasy seeing that visual, as I did when I visited it? 

Edited April 3, 2017 by Spock

[Spock]

3 hours ago, Willa said:

Gal 1:6  ESV I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— Gal 1:7  not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.

Gal 1:8  But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. Gal 1:9  As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.

Gal 1:10  For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.

It is more important that we live to please God than any man, including the pope.  The curses belong on those who pervert the Gospel.  The gospel lies within the Catholic Church but the church and the popes continue to make it harder to find.  They try to make a personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ to be something that only the pope and the Catholic Church have, so you have to approach God through them and through angels and dead saints.  This is a lie.  Jesus is our only intercessor in heaven.  He alone is our High Priest.  And because of Him we are able to approach God ourselves without the aide of anyone anything but the blood of Jesus.  

Heb 7:24  But he, because he lives forever, has his priesthood unchangeable. Heb 7:25  Therefore he is also able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, seeing that he lives forever to make intercession for them. 

Heb 10:16  "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws on their hearts, and write them on their minds," Heb 10:17  then he adds, "I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more." Heb 10:18  Where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer any offering for sin. Heb 10:19  Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the holy places by the blood of Jesus, Heb 10:20  by the new and living way that he opened for us through the curtain, that is, through his flesh, Heb 10:21  and since we have a great priest over the house of God, Heb 10:22  let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.

This even tells us that there in no need for the mass to be offered up for sins since Jesus' sacrifice was once for all time.  We now just remember what He has done for us.  We can enter the holy of holies by His shed blood, with a pure conscience, and enjoy His fellowship.  Our faith needs to be placed in God through His Son, and in the Word of God found in the Bible.  It is the Bible that reveals God to us through the Holy Spirit, not the pope or the church, and especially not any sanctified dead people or angels.  

Rev 19:10  Then I fell down at his feet to worship him, but he said to me, "You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God." 

We are never to fall down at the feet of any saint in heaven or on earth.  We are to worship God alone.  Venerate is another dictionary word for worship.  Semantics.

It was Jesus who said " I am the way the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father but by Me."  That is Jesus' judgement on unbelievers. 

Thanks Willa.  One mediator- the Lord Jesus (not Mary)!   Absolutely. 

[warrior12]

Hi Mr. Spock  .      Just wanted to ask what you think about Mary being sinless as stated in question 1.   This is a very serious statement as this title is only attributed to God.  Only Adam and Eve alone held that status before  they sinned in the garden.     So, this teaching is essentially equating  Mary to the status of Jesus, who is God.  This simply cannot be, as there is only one God and Lord.

Are angels sinless ???

Romans 3     King James Version (KJV)

²³ For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Edited April 3, 2017 by warrior12

[Spock]

8 minutes ago, warrior12 said:

Hi Mr. Spock  .      Just wanted to ask what you think about Mary being sinless as stated in question 1.   This is a very serious statement as this title is only attributed to God.  Only Adam and Eve alone held that status before  they sinned in the garden.     So, this teaching is essentially equating  Mary to the status of Jesus, who is God.  This simply cannot be, as there is only one God and Lord.

Are angels sinless ???

Romans 3     King James Version (KJV)

²³ For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

What do I think about Mary being sinless?  Horse dung is what I think. So, in order to get Mary sinless, guess what? She also has to have an Immaculate Conception just like Jesus. Really!!!!!!!

Again, you bring up another good point....if there is any doubt catholic doctrine regarding Mary is idolatrous, this is another feather in the cap for GUILTY!  

One mediator, not two

One sinless person to walk on this earth, not two

One person should receive prayer and worship (God), not two

[simplejeff]

re angels.   YHWH'S angels, who did not rebel,  are sinless.   No worries, no doubt, no contradiction nor twisting of any of YHWH'S PLAN, YHWH'S WORD, YHWH'S PURPOSE, or YHWH'S SALVATION in Y'SHUA MESSIAH.

 

Those angels that rebelled,  there is only the lake of fire,  or whatever destruction YHWH chose,  for them.  No repentance.  No salvation.

[simplejeff]

1 hour ago, Spock said:

You bring up a good point. My brother is all in when it comes to Catholic doctrine and dogma. He is like a sponge- he absorbs it all in and he doesn't seem to question any of it.  This thought makes me think.....maybe he has to  REPENT from this thinking in order to allow the teaching and power of the word from the Holy Bible to enter into him. I wonder if this has to happen before God can invade his body!  I don't know.....just thinking out loud. 

Important to remember what YHWH says:  Unless the FATHER draws him,  he will not turn to the FATHER for help.

Also,  as long as he is intent on sin in his heart,  YHWW will not even hear his prayer.

And repentance is more, much more, and different,  than just giving up and renouncing sin and the world and the flesh.

Someone could do all that,  and still have nothing.

And there's nothing he can do to "earn" or gain any teaching , wisdom, knowledge or power of YHWH'S SALVATION, 

no more than simon (the magician?) wanted to do - to somehow 'buy' the power everyone saw in the Apostles.

Pray to YHWH ,  and ask, and keep asking, if there is something to pray for,  for him.  And LISTEN to what YHWH says - whatever YHWH'S ANSWER IS,  pay attention.  (It will be perfectly and simply and totally in ilne with and in ABSOLUTE and PERFECT HARMONY with ALL OF YHWH'S WORD

[Marilyn C]

7 hours ago, Spock said:

A different Jesus....hmmmm. 

Yes, my brother and I differed on one point you brought up.  He said Mary is the Mother of God. I said, no she isn't, the Bible never said that.  The Bible says she is the mother of Jesus. Big difference IMO because Jesus emptied himself, taking the form of a bond servant. 

I don't know how this Mary veneration could have such a strong hold on him and millions like him. It obviously is demonic right from the pit of Hell. This has to be one of Satan's best ploys to get the people all confused and preoccupied with anything else not God.

I wonder why the Holy Spirit within him and other true Catholic believers is not rising up and laying on some serious conviction to bring about a change of heart and thinking.  

Hi Spock,

Interesting discussion. I am right now at my friend`s place for the week. She used to be a Pentecostal & is now a Catholic. Her husband has just died & I am helping her through this time. Over the years I have had many discussions with my friend and learnt a lot about the catholic faith. I do appreciate a lot of Scott Hahn`s writings & others. I try to talk about things we agree on.

I do see all the errors & have wondered why, especially my friend, she/they believe such things. Personally I see that the catholic faith is based on fear & to have a `mother figure` as apposed to a judge, is so, so comforting. Of course it is demonic. However you can`t reason with the demonic. I believe being a good friend & the Lord will bring about the opportunity to help them when their world is falling apart.

The Catholic Church is about to split, & will cause a lot of fear in people. Talking on the truths you both believe, reinforces them as they minister to the spirit. Ultimately all groups have error. I think of the Charismatic chaos with people receiving the `Kundalini spirit` and thinking they can `transform` the world. There is so much demonic activity out there in all forms, thus we really need to focus on the truths & when people finally `see` the Lord, His holiness will burn up all the dross. (1 Cor. 3: 9 - 15)

Many believe error with their head but really in their heart is another matter. God only knows.

Continue as friends  - `Therefore let us, as many as are mature, have this mind; and if anything you think otherwise, God will reveal even this to you.` (Phil. 3: 15)

regards bro, Marilyn.

[MorningGlory]

3 hours ago, Spock said:

Hey Glory,

thanks for participating.  Would you mind answering question two as well. I just want to read the basis for your answer too. Thanks.

spock

Whether Mary was without sin?  No, she was not; she was a human woman, not divine.  There is only one without sin and that is Jesus.

Romans 3:10
As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one;
 

[Spock]

15 minutes ago, MorningGlory said:

Whether Mary was without sin?  No, she was not; she was a human woman, not divine.  There is only one without sin and that is Jesus.

Romans 3:10
As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one;
 

No, this one:

 2. If so, is it possible to both believe on Jesus for his atonement, and also believe in all this stuff regarding Mary, and still be saved?  In other words, can you be both a God worshipper and an idol worshipper simultaneously?

Thanks MG. 

Spock

[Spock]

17 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Spock,

Interesting discussion. I am right now at my friend`s place for the week. She used to be a Pentecostal & is now a Catholic. Her husband has just died & I am helping her through this time. Over the years I have had many discussions with my friend and learnt a lot about the catholic faith. I do appreciate a lot of Scott Hahn`s writings & others. I try to talk about things we agree on.

I do see all the errors & have wondered why, especially my friend, she/they believe such things. Personally I see that the catholic faith is based on fear & to have a `mother figure` as apposed to a judge, is so, so comforting. Of course it is demonic. However you can`t reason with the demonic. I believe being a good friend & the Lord will bring about the opportunity to help them when their world is falling apart.

The Catholic Church is about to split, & will cause a lot of fear in people. Talking on the truths you both believe, reinforces them as they minister to the spirit. Ultimately all groups have error. I think of the Charismatic chaos with people receiving the `Kundalini spirit` and thinking they can `transform` the world. There is so much demonic activity out there in all forms, thus we really need to focus on the truths & when people finally `see` the Lord, His holiness will burn up all the dross. (1 Cor. 3: 9 - 15)

Many believe error with their head but really in their heart is another matter. God only knows.

Continue as friends  - `Therefore let us, as many as are mature, have this mind; and if anything you think otherwise, God will reveal even this to you.` (Phil. 3: 15)

regards bro, Marilyn.

Great words and better advice. Thanks Marilyn. 

Love you,

spock