Is Maryology Idolatry?

[simplejeff]

Just now, inchrist said:

Thats the misconception, you see catholics would get a dead saint to join them in their conversation with Jesus .....its like you and a whole bunch of holy people in a choir saying the same prayer to Jesus.

Yes,  obviously a misconception. 

 

Thanks for verifying that.

 

But no,  (just noticed) not at all like me and others: 

when I and the holy people with me praise Jesus and talk with Him, 

no one dead is present.  None of the holy ones with me practice idolatry either.   So again, no , it (idolatry) is nothing at all like us who are holy in Christ Jesus.

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

4 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said:

But it never explicitly calls her "Mother of God" because such a title denotes she is like deity,

The term Mother of God came in response to the Airian heresy. Airian was denying Jesus's divinity. 

Mother of God has nothing to do with Mary and everything to do with Jesus.  Mary is NOT mother of the Father but mother of Jesus. 

Is Jesus God? Yes

Was Jesus God at 6 months old? Yes

Was Jesus God when he was in Mary's womb? Yes

Did Jesus stop being God while Mary was giving birth? No

Is Jesus fully man and fully God? Yes. 

When a woman gives birth to a child is she that child's mother? Yes

 

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

39 minutes ago, 4LdKHVCzRDj2 said:

The question is why pray to Mary when Jesus explicitly told us we can ask anything in His name:

This has been covered in this thread but I wouldn't try to finding it... 82 pages long now. 

I would ask you than why ask your fellow Christians to pray for you. Or better yet when a prayer request comes in why don't you say to them what you are saying here?

we are all apart of the Body of Christ and I argue that includes those in heaven. Those in heaven are not dead. They are more alive then those on earth.

[Guest shiloh357]

54 minutes ago, Judas Machabeus said:

Did not consult or seek guidance. Well neither do Catholics when they pray to Mary. 

Yes they do. Here is a prayer that includes a request for guidance:

Dearest Mother of Our Lord and our Mother too. We come to you as

children needing your protection and guidance. We look to you as the perfect model of motherhood in our own need to be

mothered; and, as the perfect example of the mothers we strive to be. As you loved your Son, help us to have tenderness in our hearts to love those

around us. We thank you for your faithfulness in leading us to your Son, Our  Lord Jesus Christ http://kdccw.org/prayerstomary.pdf

 

Here is a prayer to Mary for help: 

REMEMBER, O most gracious Virgin Mary, that never was it known that anyone who fled to thy protection, implored thy help, or sought thy intercession was left unaided. Inspired with this confidence, I fly to thee, O Virgin of virgins, my Mother; to thee do I come; before thee I stand, sinful and sorrowful. O Mother of the Word Incarnate, despise not my petitions, but in thy mercy hear and answer me. Amen.http://www.ourcatholicprayers.com/memorare.html

Prayer of Devotion to and prayer for protection from Mary.

My Queen, My Mother, I offer
myself entirely to thee.
And to show my devotion to thee,
I offer thee this day, my eyes,
my ears, my mouth, my heart,
my whole being without reserve.
Wherefore, good Mother, as I am thine own, keep me, guard me as thy property and possession.
Amen.http://www.marypages.com/PrayerstoMary.htm

Even Pope John Paul II attributed his healing from an assassination attempt, to Mary, not to Jesus.

They ask of Mary what they should be asking of Jesus.   Mary doesn't hear, nor does she grant their requests.

[simplejeff]

5 minutes ago, inchrist said:

Define idolatry from scripture for me

Here's confessions (of rampant idolatry in the rcc practices) by priest(s),  definitions AND examples from Scripture, and definitions from Roman Catholic Priests

all for casual reading:

https://www.google.com/search?q=charles+chiniquoy+catholicism+idolatry&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

2 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Yes they do. Here is a prayer that includes a request for guidance:

Dearest Mother of Our Lord and our Mother too. We come to you as

children needing your protection and guidance. We look to you as the perfect model of motherhood in our own need to be

mothered; and, as the perfect example of the mothers we strive to be. As you loved your Son, help us to have tenderness in our hearts to love those

around us. We thank you for your faithfulness in leading us to your Son, Our  Lord Jesus Christ http://kdccw.org/prayerstomary.pdf

 

Here is a prayer to Mary for help: 

REMEMBER, O most gracious Virgin Mary, that never was it known that anyone who fled to thy protection, implored thy help, or sought thy intercession was left unaided. Inspired with this confidence, I fly to thee, O Virgin of virgins, my Mother; to thee do I come; before thee I stand, sinful and sorrowful. O Mother of the Word Incarnate, despise not my petitions, but in thy mercy hear and answer me. Amen.http://www.ourcatholicprayers.com/memorare.html

Prayer of Devotion to and prayer for protection from Mary.

My Queen, My Mother, I offer
myself entirely to thee.
And to show my devotion to thee,
I offer thee this day, my eyes,
my ears, my mouth, my heart,
my whole being without reserve.
Wherefore, good Mother, as I am thine own, keep me, guard me as thy property and possession.
Amen.http://www.marypages.com/PrayerstoMary.htm

Even Pope John Paul II attributed his healing from an assassination attempt, to Mary, not to Jesus.

They ask of Mary what they should be asking of Jesus.   Mary doesn't hear, nor does she grant their requests.

How is she going to do these things? Through Jesus Christ and asking him for these things. These are no different than prayer request. The language is far more poetic I'll give you that, that's all it is. 

Someone asks you to pray for them to recieve something, protection, healing or what ever it is. They are doing exactly the same thing these prayers are doing. 

Jesus didn't start his public minister when he wanted. He started it by performing at miricale at his Mothers request. So we go to Mary like those that went to her at the Wedding of Cana. Mary didn't perform the miracle. Jesus did. 

[simplejeff]

https://www.google.com/search?q=charles+chiniquoy+catholicism+idolatry&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

 

Scripture defines idolatry very clearly.   So do the priests, roman catholic priests, at this link, who agree with SCRIPTURE and repented of idolatry.  

Catholics who have not repented of idolatry cannot have union with Y'SHUA MESSIAH, until like the priests who repented of idolatry, they also repent. 

 

It is always simple and true,  God's Word.

[simplejeff]

I am not allowed to listen to anyone who seems to practice or who seems to practice idolatry.

Goooogle search is not biased (actually, it is biased AGAINST Christianity, so that's in favor of idolatry overall),

so you or anyone else reading may go and search for themselves, seeking the truth.  

When priests and members in the rcc repent of idolatry,  I can listen and talk with them.  If they do not repent,  there is no conversation.

This is not just rcc btw - any religion at all,  any denomination at all,  if someone practices idolatry,  they must repent of it, if they are willing and want to follow Jesus.   If they do not want to,  no one , not even God, will make them.

https://www.google.com/search?q=charles+chiniquoy+catholicism+idolatry&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

Choose other search terms for yourself ,  like simply, for instance:  idolatry,  mariology, Bible,

and see what can be seen from Scripture Revealed.

God Promises, and is Faithful and True, as His Son Died, Crucified and Risen for those who seek Him (seek HIM),

that everyone,  catholic, protestant, independent, hindu, babylon, persian, chinese, french, american,

everyone,   who Seeks HIM, and keeps Seeking HIM,  WILL FIND HIM - two way conversation with YHWH CREATOR ALMGHTY ETERNALLY,   two way conversation,  living in union with HIM, abiding In HIM, instead of idols.

[Guest shiloh357]

2 hours ago, Judas Machabeus said:

How is she going to do these things? Through Jesus Christ and asking him for these things. These are no different than prayer request. The language is far more poetic I'll give you that, that's all it is. 

Someone asks you to pray for them to recieve something, protection, healing or what ever it is. They are doing exactly the same thing these prayers are doing. 

Jesus didn't start his public minister when he wanted. He started it by performing at miricale at his Mothers request. So we go to Mary like those that went to her at the Wedding of Cana. Mary didn't perform the miracle. Jesus did. 

No, they are not prayer requests that Mary takes to Jesus.  The exact text is asking HER for help, guidance, etc.  They are not asking her to ask Jesus on their behalf.  

Actually Jesus did start His public ministry when He wanted. That wedding is not when Jesus' public ministry started.  It started in Luke 4: 14-30.   The wedding was his first miracle, not when his ministry started.  Jesus already had six of his disciples by the time they got to Cana.  And the wedding in Cana is after the event in Luke 4, as Jesus did not yet have any disciples in Luke 4.

And furthermore, there is no, "go and do likewise"  component to the account of the wedding at Cana.  There is no instruction from the New Testament to go to Mary to ask her to seek Jesus' help. 

Here is what the Bible says about seeking God's help:

Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.  (Heb 4:14-16)

We are instructed to go directly to God, not to Mary.   Jesus is our advocate and our intercessor, not Mary. 

 

 

[simplejeff]

Just now, inchrist said:

But you willing to listen to false accusors.... thats interesting...those very same accusors with the image of a cross on their protestant churches?....well then you better stop going to church.

I have frequently exposed the idolatry of many different religions, including when it is practiced in protestant churches.  No worries there.   No idolatry is acceptable.

Just now, inchrist said:

But your ok with 3 dimensional statues of baby Jesus at Christmas?

Surprised you bring this up,  as if admitting yourself what is wrong with the rcc practice of it also.

1 minute ago, inchrist said:

Or perhaps you can find me scripture that God forbids the religious use of statues and images?

At these related searches, at the bottom of that original internet search posted, and the original one,  those (sinful idolatries and pagan practices)  are all clearly shown from Scripture. 

Trouble is,  no one who wants to practice idolatry ever repents of idolatry, and God just lets them go on.

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