The Abomination of Usury and Interest, and the Slavery of Debt

[shanee]

27 minutes ago, christiang said:

Yes it does, read,

Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. (Matthew 17:17-18 [NIV])
 

 

why would anyone ever need to repent if nobody ever made or makes mistakes?

[christiang]

Just now, simplejeff said:

christiang,  I think you're working against yourself sometimes.   A little leaven leavens the whole loaf,  and a few small mistakes / misunderstandings disrupts the whole lesson.  (maybe they're not so small ....)

You're quoting scripture that you do not understand that affirms the very things I am saying. A little leaven leavens the whole bread, meaning a little sin causes the entire bread to be leavened. Yet here you are saying that you cannot stop sinning. I wonder how leavened your bread is.

[christiang]

Just now, shanee said:

why would anyone ever need to repent if nobody ever made or makes mistakes?

Because clearly before you reach the point of perfection you were in sin. So you have to repent first, to then receive the holy spirit, that then frees you from sin. Its simple to understand.

[simplejeff]

2 minutes ago, christiang said:

You're quoting scripture that you do not understand that affirms the very things I am saying. A little leaven leavens the whole bread, meaning a little sin causes the entire bread to be leavened. Yet here you are saying that you cannot stop sinning. I wonder how leavened your bread is.

You just sunk your own ship.   I'll have to leave you to the others.

[christiang]

Just now, Cletus said:

Again you misinterpret.  Lets back up to My post where i quoted from romans...

Rom 7:24  O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

The body of death was a form of capital punishment back in Jesus day.  It was for royalty.  Jesus was crucified, which was for a commoner.  Book says ... as a transgressor.  What the body of death was was they take you out to the desert, strip you naked, and back to back they chain you to a corpse... dead weight... sinful nature... etc.  as the corpse rots, so do you, as buzzards eat the dead corpse, they eat you... not to mention the dead weight just weighs you down.... now here is the kicker.... did paul do the ministry, did he write all those letters in the NT without the influence of the Holy Spirit?  You know he did.  and yet paul writes he sins? 

If you say you have no sin you call God a liar... this is Gods word.  Are you calling God a liar?

Paul was speaking of his former man when he had his sinful nature, because following this passage, then he affirms thus,

You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness. (Romans 6:18 [NIV])

For the law of the spirit of the life in Christ Jesus freed me from the law of the sin and of death. (Romans 8:2 [ABP])

In nothing then is there now condemnation to the ones in Christ Jesus, not walking according to flesh, but according to spirit. (Romans 8:1 [ABP])

But you are not in flesh, but in spirit, if indeed spirit of God lives in you. But if anyone does not have the spirit of Christ, this one is not of him. (Romans 8:9 [ABP])

So clearly Paul is affirming that he is free from sin, and that he no longer walks according to the flesh that he described in that passage. You cannot walk according to both natures, you either are of one or the other. If you have received the holy spirit, "if indeed the spirit of God lives in you", then you walk according to the spirit, freed from sin, no longer able to sin, and thus, not according to your former flesh nature.

[christiang]

1 minute ago, Cletus said:

You didnt answer my question so i ask again....

The Book says If we say we have no sin we call God a liar.  Are you saing you have no sin?  Are you saying God is a liar?

Of course I have sin, meaning I have sinned in the past. That does not mean I can carry on sinning just because I have sinned in the past. Otherwise I would be contradicting scripture that says that he who is born of God cannot sin, and that he who sins has neither known him or seen him.

[shanee]

13 minutes ago, christiang said:

Because clearly before you reach the point of perfection you were in sin. So you have to repent first, to then receive the holy spirit, that then frees you from sin. Its simple to understand.

hey nice posting with you...Sorry im tired got to work tommorrow.I saved this thread and will mostly reply/check it out again tommorrow.GB

[christiang]

5 minutes ago, Cletus said:

So you are saying right now you dont sin... as in dont sin anymore? 

Because i agree that we dont carry on sinning, that we dont live a lifestyle of sin.  if you do that the peace fades and The Holy Spirit is no longer "heard"

If you think you dont have sin currently then you are calling God a liar.  The scripture you quoted saying "willing sin" means living a lifestlye of sin, openly sinning.  That is indeed evidence of quenching The Holy Spirit.  But there is a whole bunch of scripture that says things like forgive us our tresspasses as we forgive others... and one of my favorites is ¹³ And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner and also Rev 5:2  And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
Rev 5:3  And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
Rev 5:4  And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
Rev 5:5  And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

Being free from sin dont mean that you never ever sin again.  The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.  Jesus fulfilled the law. 

For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.
Why is a just man falling if he dont ever sin? 

 

Being freed from sin means that you never sin again, hence,

Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. (John 8:34-36 [NIV])

Meaning if you still sin, you are still a slave. If you have been freed, then you no longer sin. If you still do, then you have not been truly freed and are still a slave to sin.

[christiang]

6 minutes ago, Cletus said:

That does not say you never sin again.  none of the scriptures you quoted say that.  in fact the scripture you quoted here was directed at the Pharisees.  They didnt believe on Jesus Christ.  They had not been justified.  They were not born again.  They didnt have Jesus in their heart. 

And fyi if you have been freed does not mean you no longer sin. 

How many times must I quote the same scriptures?

No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. (1 John 3:6 [NASB])

We know that every one being engendered of God does not sin; but the one engendered of  God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. (I John 5:18 [ABP])

for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. (1 John 5:4 [NIV])

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (1 John 3:9 [KJV])

So stubborn and cannot come to understanding.

[Neighbor]

On 4/3/2017 at 10:48 PM, christiang said:

This study goes over why it is a sin to be in debt, to lend at interest, and to engage in various forms of usury that are common in American culture.

Think I'll opt to stay with my Bible, clinging to the hope certain for me found within Romans 7 and 8; but thank you for your attempt at making me feel hopelessly lost in my sin, for it has led me to my morning study at Romans. Praise God for His mercy and grace. I have my salvation in my redeemer Jesus my Lord.