The Abomination of Usury and Interest, and the Slavery of Debt

[shanee]

13 hours ago, Cletus said:

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (1 John 3:9 [KJV]

now,im still learning...But to me this verse seems  to be talking about the Lord Jesus him self?   ****i am  talking to christiang....i dont know why it put Cletus ....Sorry

Edited April 5, 2017 by shanee
i put wrong name

[christiang]

2 hours ago, shanee said:

Hello,christiang,im back for a little bit...where is this point of perfection you speak of?do you mean as soon as a person gets saved?    btw ,just so you know i dont think people can sin all they want just because they are saved by Jesus...like its a free pass to sin...no

Heb 12:6  For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 
Heb 12:7  If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 
Heb 12:8  But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. 
 

well i guess they could but im sure they would have a very hard time..God is Just..if you believe you are not sinning i think thats great and i hope your not.But i myself believe some people if not all make mistakes...or shall i say could make mistakes and should repent if they do A.S.A.P

Hi there, the point of perfection is not when you first believe, nor when you stop sinning on your own accord, but when you become baptized with the holy spirit. As the purpose behind the baptism of the holy spirit is not just to give you power from on high, but also to sanctify you, which means to free you of your sinful nature, which then literally causes you, as is mentioned in scripture, to be "free from sin", "perfected", and "cannot sin again". It is not your own doing, because you yourself cannot free yourself of your sinful nature, but the doing of the holy spirit. Receiving the holy spirit is not just some figure of speech, as I hear people frequently say, "I have the holy spirit", but live lives contrary to what the work of the holy spirit does in accordance to scripture, but it is a literal spirit that enters the body, and is always evidenced with a sign of power, usually speaking in different languages unknown to you or prophesying. Just as there are unclean spirits that can possess and control the body, so there is a holy spirit that is an actual being that enters into the body and instantly changes your heart, which is the "circumcision of the heart", and removes your evil desires. This is what is written and how is has been recorded in scripture. Many disbelieve because they simply do not understand, there is much false teaching, leading many people to unwittingly continue in their sin, even as remorseful and as infrequent as it may be, to their own destruction.

[OneLight]

7 hours ago, christiang said:

Hi there, the point of perfection is not when you first believe, nor when you stop sinning on your own accord, but when you become baptized with the holy spirit. As the purpose behind the baptism of the holy spirit is not just to give you power from on high, but also to sanctify you, which means to free you of your sinful nature, which then literally causes you, as is mentioned in scripture, to be "free from sin", "perfected", and "cannot sin again". It is not your own doing, because you yourself cannot free yourself of your sinful nature, but the doing of the holy spirit. Receiving the holy spirit is not just some figure of speech, as I hear people frequently say, "I have the holy spirit", but live lives contrary to what the work of the holy spirit does in accordance to scripture, but it is a literal spirit that enters the body, and is always evidenced with a sign of power, usually speaking in different languages unknown to you or prophesying. Just as there are unclean spirits that can possess and control the body, so there is a holy spirit that is an actual being that enters into the body and instantly changes your heart, which is the "circumcision of the heart", and removes your evil desires. This is what is written and how is has been recorded in scripture. Many disbelieve because they simply do not understand, there is much false teaching, leading many people to unwittingly continue in their sin, even as remorseful and as infrequent as it may be, to their own destruction.

All who accept Christ receive the Holy Spirit.  We first read of this in Acts 1.  Having the Holy Spirit does not equate to never sinning.  We are made into a new creation, in the likeness of Christ, but we still have to live in the flesh and will sin from time to time.  We may think a bad thought about someone, but we catch it before we act upon it because of the Holy Spirit.  Does that mean we did not sin?  No, because the thought itself is a sin.  We repent and move on.  I challenge you to show me one person who never sinned after receiving the Holy Spirit.

The problem comes when people claim that because we do have the Holy Spirit that we will never sin again.  We continue to live in this flesh until the day we die, and we will always have to stay on top of our fleshly desires.  If what you a trying to teach were true, then we would have no need for the Epistles as they continue to warn against sinning. 

Your teaching about never sinning after receiving the Holy Spirit is very dangerous.  After someone receives the Holy Spirit then catches themselves thinking a sinful thought, your teachings would automatically force to question their salvation and if they ever received the Holy Spirit.  This is exactly what Satan wants us to do, to be filled with doubt about our salvation, never coming to the understanding that we will always have to fight against the flesh.

There is only one who never sinned and that is Jesus.  All we can ever do is to try to be like Him.  Think of all the reasons the Holy Spirit was sent to us.  One of His reasons is to convict us of sin.  If we never sinned after receiving the Holy Spirit, why would this be one of the reasons?

You will realize someday that having the Holy Spirit teach and guide us does not bring us to perfection, but shows us how to live like Christ in this world.  We will continue to make mistakes, we will continue to see our sinful nature pop its ugly head up from time to time, but we also realize that sinning is something we have come to despise, to turn from, not to live in.  Just because the desire is there, this desire does not mean we will never sin.  That is unrealistic and is very harmful to those who try to be perfect.  This teaching is just like the teaching of name it and claim it, which teaches that if you have enough faith, you can have whatever you want.  When they speak a word of faith over a desire, when what they desire does not come true, they are forced to question their faith and not the teaching.  Both are very damaging to their walk in Christ.

What you are doing here is placing a rule around the neck of a believer, and if they do not live up to this rule, then they must not be a believer.  Your teaching is causing people to stumble in their walk.  You would be wise to consider the following words of Jesus:

But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea.

 

[Kindle]

Just now, OneLight said:

All who accept Christ receive the Holy Spirit.  

That can't be the case for all. Some people don't accept Christ truly. Some do it for show some do to gain things. Not everyone who accepts Christ receives the Holy Spirit.

Just like this verse states the not everyone who says lord lord will enter heaven.

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

[OneLight]

6 minutes ago, worthy said:

That can't be the case for all. Some people don't accept Christ truly. Some do it for show some do to gain things. Not everyone who accepts Christ receives the Holy Spirit.

Just like this verse states the not everyone who says lord lord will enter heaven.

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

No, this is not true.  When we accept Jesus, we are sealed with the Holy Spirit. Everyone who accepts Jesus is given the Holy Spirit.  One place we can see this is in Ephesians 1:13-14

In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

What you are referring to are false brothers and sisters.  They claim with their mouth to be believers without accepting Christ as their Lord and Savior. This is like those today who think their good works will be enough to be saved, if they just follow the teaching of Jesus without accepting Him as the Son of God.

[Kindle]

1 minute ago, OneLight said:

No, this is not true.  When we accept Jesus, we are sealed with the Holy Spirit. Everyone who accepts Jesus is given the Holy Spirit.  One place we can see this is in Ephesians 1:13-14

In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

What you are referring to are false brothers and sisters.  They claim with their mouth to be believers without accepting Christ as their Lord and Savior. This is like those today who think their good works will be enough to be saved, if they just follow the teaching of Jesus without accepting Him as the Son of God.

You said everyone. So that includes them too

[OneLight]

2 minutes ago, worthy said:

You said everyone. So that includes them too

Not so.  If you read further, I distinguished between believers and false believers.  True believers do receive the Holy Spirit and will never be rejected by Christ.  False believers will never be given the Holy Spirit and are rejected by Christ.

[christiang]

19 minutes ago, OneLight said:

All who accept Christ receive the Holy Spirit.  We first read of this in Acts 1.  Having the Holy Spirit does not equate to never sinning.  We are made into a new creation, in the likeness of Christ, but we still have to live in the flesh and will sin from time to time.  We may think a bad thought about someone, but we catch it before we act upon it because of the Holy Spirit.  Does that mean we did not sin?  No, because the thought itself is a sin.  We repent and move on.  I challenge you to show me one person who never sinned after receiving the Holy Spirit.

The problem comes when people claim that because we do have the Holy Spirit that we will never sin again.  We continue to live in this flesh until the day we die, and we will always have to stay on top of our fleshly desires.  If what you a trying to teach were true, then we would have no need for the Epistles as they continue to warn against sinning. 

Your teaching about never sinning after receiving the Holy Spirit is very dangerous.  After someone receives the Holy Spirit then catches themselves thinking a sinful thought, your teachings would automatically force to question their salvation and if they ever received the Holy Spirit.  This is exactly what Satan wants us to do, to be filled with doubt about our salvation, never coming to the understanding that we will always have to fight against the flesh.

There is only one who never sinned and that is Jesus.  All we can ever do is to try to be like Him.  Think of all the reasons the Holy Spirit was sent to us.  One of His reasons is to convict us of sin.  If we never sinned after receiving the Holy Spirit, why would this be one of the reasons?

You will realize someday that having the Holy Spirit teach and guide us does not bring us to perfection, but shows us how to live like Christ in this world.  We will continue to make mistakes, we will continue to see our sinful nature pop its ugly head up from time to time, but we also realize that sinning is something we have come to despise, to turn from, not to live in.  Just because the desire is there, this desire does not mean we will never sin.  That is unrealistic and is very harmful to those who try to be perfect.  This teaching is just like the teaching of name it and claim it, which teaches that if you have enough faith, you can have whatever you want.  When they speak a word of faith over a desire, when what they desire does not come true, they are forced to question their faith and not the teaching.  Both are very damaging to their walk in Christ.

What you are doing here is placing a rule around the neck of a believer, and if they do not live up to this rule, then they must not be a believer.  Your teaching is causing people to stumble in their walk.  You would be wise to consider the following words of Jesus:

But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea.

 

That simply isn't true, because even in the Book of Acts we see that Cornelius, who had believed in Jesus Christ, and had even been baptized with water, had not yet received the holy spirit. Believing and receiving the holy spirit are not the same thing and they do not necessarily happen at the same time, and not everyone who believes receives the holy spirit, for I've even seen believers in Jesus Christ that are living as homosexuals thinking that they too have the holy spirit! Although the holy spirit comes through belief, he doesn't just come only with belief. The belief needs to grow into other things, like full repentance (stop committing every sin that violates the Law of God) and humility as was required by Jesus Christ (sell all your possessions and properties), and giving to God your offerings of righteousness (giving to the poor and being full of good works). Sadly, most everyone fails in one area or the other, thinking one thing is not a sin when it is, or believing in false teachings, or various other things. The way too life is indeed very narrow. The holy spirit is the final seal of salvation, and once you receive him, you are sealed as one of the few that are chosen of God, and you can never lose him nor lose your salvation, and never sin either. And at the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, the sealed will be gathered together to meet the Lord in the air, and will become glorified, exalted, and given authority to rule on the earth as sons of God in the kingdom established by Jesus Christ. But you cannot come to rule in his kingdom unless you first take the form of a servant as he also did, before he became glorified and exalted. And neither can you inherit his kingdom unless you are first born of spirit, which means to be baptized in the holy spirit, and be freed of your sinful nature, for a slave who still sins cannot inherit, but a son who has been freed can.

The truth of the matter is that you still struggle in your sin because, and I'm not trying to condemn you nor offend you, you have not received the holy spirit. The holy spirit is supposed to free you of your sinful nature, so it no longer becomes a struggle against your own nature, but rather, you literally walk free of sin, and your new struggle now becomes against the principalities and angels of wickedness that will all of a sudden come against you, as any who becomes sealed of the holy spirit will suffer and be persecuted, even here in America.

[christiang]

12 minutes ago, OneLight said:

Not so.  If you read further, I distinguished between believers and false believers.  True believers do receive the Holy Spirit and will never be rejected by Christ.  False believers will never be given the Holy Spirit and are rejected by Christ.

Indeed, but both are believers, whether a true or a false one. Did it not occur to you that the distinguishing factor behind a true or false believer is sin? Hence "by their fruits you shall know them." And also, these scriptures,

We know that every one being engendered of  God does not sin; but the one engendered of  God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. (I John 5:18 [ABP])

for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. (1 John 5:4 [NIV])

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (1 John 3:9 [KJV])

No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. (1 John 3:6 [NASB])

As such, if you still sin you are actually a false believer, because sin is the difference between a true and a false believer, whether you still sin or not. Yet while you are still alive, you have the opportunity to crossover from false believer to true believer if you actually stop sinning, and receive the holy spirit and become perfected. I don't know how else to put it for you, God, while very merciful, is also very severe. If he did not spare Israelites who had been delivered from Egypt, and even committed just one sin, in the ministry that came through Moses, rest assured he will not spare you on your continuance of sins after believing, in the ministry that came through the son of God! These are words of admonishment, that you may realize that you cannot continue sinning.

[OneLight]

22 minutes ago, christiang said:

That simply isn't true, because even in the Book of Acts we see that Cornelius, who had believed in Jesus Christ, and had even been baptized with water, had not yet received the holy spirit. Believing and receiving the holy spirit are not the same thing and they do not necessarily happen at the same time, and not everyone who believes receives the holy spirit, for I've even seen believers in Jesus Christ that are living as homosexuals thinking that they too have the holy spirit! Although the holy spirit comes through belief, he doesn't just come only with belief. The belief needs to grow into other things, like full repentance (stop committing every sin that violates the Law of God) and humility as was required by Jesus Christ (sell all your possessions and properties), and giving to God your offerings of righteousness (giving to the poor and being full of good works). Sadly, most everyone fails in one area or the other, thinking one thing is not a sin when it is, or believing in false teachings, or various other things. The way too life is indeed very narrow. The holy spirit is the final seal of salvation, and once you receive him, you are sealed as one of the few that are chosen of God, and you can never lose him nor lose your salvation, and never sin either. And at the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, the sealed will be gathered together to meet the Lord in the air, and will become glorified, exalted, and given authority to rule on the earth as sons of God in the kingdom established by Jesus Christ. But you cannot come to rule in his kingdom unless you first take the form of a servant as he also did, before he became glorified and exalted. And neither can you inherit his kingdom unless you are first born of spirit, which means to be baptized in the holy spirit, and be freed of your sinful nature, for a slave who still sins cannot inherit, but a son who has been freed can.

The truth of the matter is that you still struggle in your sin because, and I'm not trying to condemn you nor offend you, you have not received the holy spirit. The holy spirit is supposed to free you of your sinful nature, so it no longer becomes a struggle against your own nature, but rather, you literally walk free of sin, and your new struggle now becomes against the principalities and angels of wickedness that will all of a sudden come against you, as any who becomes sealed of the holy spirit will suffer and be persecuted, even here in America.

If you follow the teaching about Cornelius in Acts 10, you will see that he had believe in God way before he ever heard about Jesus or the Holy Spirit, but believed in God and baptism.  Once her heard, he accepted and was baptized in the Holy Spirit.   You need to keep things in order to have a proper understanding. 

Oh, christiang, you are so wrong about me not being baptized in the Holy Spirit.  You condemn yourself as you are not speaking the truth, therefore, in your own teaching, are sinning, so you have not yet received the Holy Spirit yourself.  Can you see how futile your teaching is?  It is pure false and the only way you can try to show it as true is to condemn all who do not agree with you.  I suspect you are either bound to this false teaching or an over zealot young believer.  You need to be free from false teachings like this.  We can never, in this life, live without the flesh, which desires sin.  We can have glorious victories in Him, but we will sin.