The tares among the wheat here

[Reinitin]

1 hour ago, JoshuasonFlower said:

I didn't mean to offend. Which is why I said at the beginning of my remarks that I pray for your understanding.

Your observation is on point in that it is not fruit producing to find fault with the Christians here due to the opinion of some who think they're entitled. This entire thread from the title inviting attention to it is something I can understand now happening as that which formerly as someone recalled, led the Catholic members of this community to leave.
The title is a direct communication against a new level of membership here. That Catholics departed appears to give incentive to have another identity of Christian follow. Is this type thread how it started against the Catholics? If so, what is the fruit of the spirit that pursues a new group to ostracize? Maybe the tare is what sprouts in the field first. Know them by their fruits was the warning in scripture.

Christians are suppose to work together in community. Upholding the word of God, and each other, in the spirit and same love as Christ has for his church.

Christ seated himself among the outcasts in society. He sought out the unclean, the persecuted, the untouchables. His own disciples took issue with that and confronted him about it and he informed them of his deep and abiding love and purpose.

I've read over this forum and others. And there appears to be arisen an intention to divide, not bond the community of Christ together. To say to those who are identified in those remarks with that purpose and who stand to read that that they are not fit to be here. Because they are not one of us.

What purpose is there to sew discord?  What fruit is wrought for the effort expended?

The Catholics left due to that? Who's intended to be next? What effort is purposed to insure there is a next? And how would that occur but for more than one opinion thinking there is deservedly a Christian among us worthy of being next? 

Rather than participate in sewing discord into the fabric of Christ's church joining with that which initiated the weave why don't we rebuff that intention by being Christ like in our example of his love? Jesus was sent to save the whole world from its sins. What example are we if we identify one group among our own as unworthy of being in his covenant due to our opinion of what that covenant means to them.

The teachings of Jesus are I believe something to reflect upon when encountering that. Because if it is a matter of sameness, I think it wise to recall that Christianity is not the religion of Jesus.

It is the religion about Jesus. Judaism was the religion of Jesus.  Therefore, when ridicule is produced repeatedly to say any Christian is not truly in Christ because of their manner of worship making them unqualified to be so named, I believe it wise to remember that about Christianity that the Christians follow. And the Judaism that our Lord and Savior followed.

 

 

 

My post is answer to a question basically. Do we exploit the flesh because it is weak? I assumed the question was meaning do we make excuses for hatefullness or pride or the fleshly ways in us that are opposition to the truth we precieve? 

My answer was God uses flesh ie paul's public out bust with peter, flesh to help us overcome flesh,  peters pull away from gentiles.   So my point was fleshly actions produce fleshly responses. "Flesh begets Flesh, Spirit begets Spirit". I see in the word God using our flesh to correct each others flesh. In His shaping and molding of us. When Spirit confronts flesh it is at enmity and exalted (a superior position) so the reaction often seems to be hatred, rejection, abandonment, betrayel. But when correction comes from a equal level or a person with like kind struggles or suffering,  it seems to be easier to recieve. Ie, Christ who was exalted above all lowered himself below angels to share in our struggles and sufferings so he could reach us to redeem us.

Bring this back to community discord. JESUS was not a respector of persons He sat among the Pharisees and leaders and teachers and gave them the same message and correction and hope as he gave to those outcast.  Flesh is what divided men in to groups if your idiology sees the value of and love for the women full of repentance washing the Lords feet with her hair to be greater then the men he sat with and loved them enough to let them hate and speak all manor of evil in his attemp to procure salvation for them also. One sin against our Holy God brought death on All Men. Your just being reverse prejudice against earthly authority or position or people that hide their pain and struggle. I dont know anything about Catholics that left the website. Did you ever comsider maybe the divisions were created by promoting church propaganda and what some consider heresy?

You cant really point the finger at a person that believes the rock of ages the foundation of Gods k8ngdom and eternal life  is the revelation of Christ so they stand on their foundation immovable. Their believing any other foundation wont save people. So them not moving is love for the perishing. Then you have another person with a superior church and proclaims their church is ordained by Christ to be the eternal foundation of salvation built on Peter.

If they left its because they couldnt get kudos for catholism or couldnt win people to the Catholic doctrin for salvation ? Part of loving the Lord is acceptance of being hated and abused.  if they really loved the people here and felt they had truth that can save they would still be here because all heaven rejoices at the salvation of one soul. The administration can not control who comes to this website. Did anyone kick the Catholics out? They chose to leave? They rejected the people here because what? Disagreed with church propaganda? Questioned their salvation? So what? If my faith is questioned its an opportunity to testify. If my feelings get hurt the Lord corrects and heals, if im hated OR persecuted  because of Christ this world hated him first. Im choosing to love someone this world hates. Why are you blaming people for them leaving? Thats pretty one sided. Didnt they care about anyone here, anyone but themselves?

Nothing the Lord did was fruitless or against the will of God yet he called men white washed tombs. Told people there father was satan and told the sammiratin women he was greater then Jacob and another gentile women she was a dog. Called people vipers. Pointed out the lepers that did comeback to thank him. Led a man to trouble by telling him to carry his mat on a sabbath.

Geeze. It is all love for them that are perishing.

Edited April 18, 2017 by Reinitin

[Spock]

We are called to reprove and correct error in doctrine.  Obviously this will offend some but obviously God doesn't want us to be gullible, uninformed, and opening ourselves to doctrines of demons. 

3As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain people not to teach false doctrines any longer 4or to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. Such things promote controversial speculations rather than advancing God’s work—which is by faith. 5The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. 6Some have departed from these and have turned to meaningless talk. 7They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.

1The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the servant of God^a may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

 

Edited April 18, 2017 by Spock

[JoshuasonFlower]

There's nothing quite like standing in witness to that which thinks abuse of a person or persons is deemed righteous in God's eyes. Thinking people who love God and Jesus first and foremost would have to show immovable love in a forum on the Internet where abuse awaits them is naive. Thinking people leave because they don't deserve to be abused because they're Catholic or any other Christian denomination is further example they lack something befitting respect from abusive Christians is something else.

Ignoring the love Jesus showed those who were not Jewish says quite a lot.  

Jesus Christ was murdered at behest of those thinking themselves empowered to determine the son of God, Immanuel who was God with us, was worthy of crucifixion because he did not follow what the Sadducee, the Pharisee, commanded was the only way to rightly be called a Jew and worship God.
That's why they judged him blasphemer and his miracles bolstered by the power of demons and sought Rome's authority to crucify him before Passover.

There are even those in community in the world who will argue Jesus was not Immanuel.

I'll leave the doctrine of demons alone being it is up to the Christian to discern for themselves what they witness and read in order to know if they arrive at reading demonic teachings wherever they may go.

 

Edited April 18, 2017 by JoshuasonFlower

[Wayne222]

4 hours ago, Reinitin said:

My post is answer to a question basically. Do we exploit the flesh because it is weak? I assumed the question was meaning do we make excuses for hatefullness or pride or the fleshly ways in us that are opposition to the truth we precieve? 

My answer was God uses flesh ie paul's public out bust with peter, flesh to help us overcome flesh,  peters pull away from gentiles.   So my point was fleshly actions produce fleshly responses. "Flesh begets Flesh, Spirit begets Spirit". I see in the word God using our flesh to correct each others flesh. In His shaping and molding of us. When Spirit confronts flesh it is at enmity and exalted (a superior position) so the reaction often seems to be hatred, rejection, abandonment, betrayel. But when correction comes from a equal level or a person with like kind struggles or suffering,  it seems to be easier to recieve. Ie, Christ who was exalted above all lowered himself below angels to share in our struggles and sufferings so he could reach us to redeem us.

Bring this back to community discord. JESUS was not a respector of persons He sat among the Pharisees and leaders and teachers and gave them the same message and correction and hope as he gave to those outcast.  Flesh is what divided men in to groups if your idiology sees the value of and love for the women full of repentance washing the Lords feet with her hair to be greater then the men he sat with and loved them enough to let them hate and speak all manor of evil in his attemp to procure salvation for them also. One sin against our Holy God brought death on All Men. Your just being reverse prejudice against earthly authority or position or people that hide their pain and struggle. I dont know anything about Catholics that left the website. Did you ever comsider maybe the divisions were created by promoting church propaganda and what some consider heresy?

You cant really point the finger at a person that believes the rock of ages the foundation of Gods k8ngdom and eternal life  is the revelation of Christ so they stand on their foundation immovable. Their believing any other foundation wont save people. So them not moving is love for the perishing. Then you have another person with a superior church and proclaims their church is ordained by Christ to be the eternal foundation of salvation built on Peter.

If they left its because they couldnt get kudos for catholism or couldnt win people to the Catholic doctrin for salvation ? Part of loving the Lord is acceptance of being hated and abused.  if they really loved the people here and felt they had truth that can save they would still be here because all heaven rejoices at the salvation of one soul. The administration can not control who comes to this website. Did anyone kick the Catholics out? They chose to leave? They rejected the people here because what? Disagreed with church propaganda? Questioned their salvation? So what? If my faith is questioned its an opportunity to testify. If my feelings get hurt the Lord corrects and heals, if im hated OR persecuted  because of Christ this world hated him first. Im choosing to love someone this world hates. Why are you blaming people for them leaving? Thats pretty one sided. Didnt they care about anyone here, anyone but themselves?

Nothing the Lord did was fruitless or against the will of God yet he called men white washed tombs. Told people there father was satan and told the sammiratin women he was greater then Jacob and another gentile women she was a dog. Called people vipers. Pointed out the lepers that did comeback to thank him. Led a man to trouble by telling him to carry his mat on a sabbath.

Geeze. It is all love for them that are perishing.

It could be many reasons why someone leaves a forum like worthy. Does not mean that they did not have love for the people here. Sometimes people get tired of debate .I get tired of it. Or God has other things for them to do. Of course you could be right too. Some might think the people here are not worth it. In God's eyes they are worth it. 

[Reinitin]

33 minutes ago, Wayne222 said:

It could be many reasons why someone leaves a forum like worthy. Does not mean that they did not have love for the people here. Sometimes people get tired of debate .I get tired of it. Or God has other things for them to do. Of course you could be right too. Some might think the people here are not worth it. In God's eyes they are worth it. 

Well im confused:) this post on wheat and tares is suposably a public display or judgment about people on worthy chat and who ever the tares in here are they are breaking worthy chat rules. Honestly i cant figure out who are being accused of being tares? The catholics that left or the people grumbling at their doctrins. Im am completely clueless. I just know judging a christian as a tare and then making a pubic sceptical does not seem very mature to me.

[JoshuasonFlower]

1 hour ago, Reinitin said:

Well im confused:) this post on wheat and tares is suposably a public display or judgment about people on worthy chat and who ever the tares in here are they are breaking worthy chat rules. Honestly i cant figure out who are being accused of being tares? The catholics that left or the people grumbling at their doctrins. Im am completely clueless. I just know judging a christian as a tare and then making a pubic sceptical does not seem very mature to me.

Amen to that!

I think what some of us are hoping to achieve is to turn this violation into a reminder of Jesus ministry and purpose. To rebuke through God's word those that would replay the assault against the teachings of Christ and the accusation the Sanhedrin trial levied against him as that of blasphemer. And worthy of death.

The replay of that ancient 2000+ year history in contemporary terms on this forum having the Pharisee spirit assail those who are in Christ for being there contrary to their belief they belong is today's blasphemy. Is today's Pharisee at work.

MARK 16:16
"He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."

Jesus made it very simple to understand God's divine plan.  Condemning how people honor God doesn't take those who are in Christ out the grace of God. No one can remove the Christian from Jesus' hand.

 

 

[Wayne222]

2 hours ago, Reinitin said:

Well im confused:) this post on wheat and tares is suposably a public display or judgment about people on worthy chat and who ever the tares in here are they are breaking worthy chat rules. Honestly i cant figure out who are being accused of being tares? The catholics that left or the people grumbling at their doctrins. Im am completely clueless. I just know judging a christian as a tare and then making a pubic sceptical does not seem very mature to me.

Your so right. I don't go on chat. But I did not know others were on chat doing that. It's kind of unproductive.  

[JoshuasonFlower]

The original posting doesn't speak of all this transpiring in a chat room here. Aren't there moderators present in chat so as to insure this kind of thing doesn't happen there? If it is against the rules in chat? I thought it was against the rules in the terms of service page that I read.

[OneLight]

10 hours ago, JoshuasonFlower said:

I've read over this forum and others. And there appears to be arisen an intention to divide, not bond the community of Christ together. To say to those who are identified in those remarks with that purpose and who stand to read that that they are not fit to be here. Because they are not one of us.

What purpose is there to sew discord?  What fruit is wrought for the effort expended?

The Catholics left due to that? Who's intended to be next? What effort is purposed to insure there is a next? And how would that occur but for more than one opinion thinking there is deservedly a Christian among us worthy of being next? 

Rather than participate in sewing discord into the fabric of Christ's church joining with that which initiated the weave why don't we rebuff that intention by being Christ like in our example of his love? Jesus was sent to save the whole world from its sins. What example are we if we identify one group among our own as unworthy of being in his covenant due to our opinion of what that covenant means to them.

 

Yes, unfortunately, there are those who are members that feel that looking at the differences is more important than looking at what binds us into His Body.  You can see this all over the forums.  We do, however, pray and hope that those who are solid in Him will point that in every belief, in every persons theology, there is some errors somewhere and none of us are perfect. 

Sometimes it is hard to determine if someone is trying to correct doctrinal errors, or if they just don't like a certain denomination.  Other times, it is very blatant as to how they feel.  We never use to allow Catholic teaching or Catholic bashing here, but it changed while I was absent.  Now, it had been decided to allow iron to sharpen iron, but then again, when iron strikes iron hard enough, it does more damage then good.

9 hours ago, Reinitin said:

You cant really point the finger at a person that believes the rock of ages the foundation of Gods kingdom and eternal life  is the revelation of Christ so they stand on their foundation immovable. Their believing any other foundation wont save people. So them not moving is love for the perishing. Then you have another person with a superior church and proclaims their church is ordained by Christ to be the eternal foundation of salvation built on Peter.

If they left its because they couldnt get kudos for catholism or couldnt win people to the Catholic doctrin for salvation ? Part of loving the Lord is acceptance of being hated and abused.  if they really loved the people here and felt they had truth that can save they would still be here because all heaven rejoices at the salvation of one soul. The administration can not control who comes to this website. Did anyone kick the Catholics out? They chose to leave? They rejected the people here because what? Disagreed with church propaganda? Questioned their salvation? So what? If my faith is questioned its an opportunity to testify. If my feelings get hurt the Lord corrects and heals, if im hated OR persecuted  because of Christ this world hated him first. Im choosing to love someone this world hates. Why are you blaming people for them leaving? Thats pretty one sided. Didnt they care about anyone here, anyone but themselves?

I have come to believe that tradition plays a huge part in the RCC, both due to theological studies and the fact that I came out of this church before I was a teenager and have some memories of they catechism classes.  The Protestant churches do not hold much to tradition while the RCC and Greek Orthodox do, as well as a few others.  The young and zealot believers see a great divide due to this and cannot see the straight and narrow bridge as it is small compared to the size of the gap they see. God needs those who will disciple young believers as we were instructed to do, not once a week, but daily.  This is missing in this world, except for a small number who do their best to help people see the truth in all this mess, through His love, not denominational doctrine.

4 hours ago, Wayne222 said:

It could be many reasons why someone leaves a forum like worthy. Does not mean that they did not have love for the people here. Sometimes people get tired of debate .I get tired of it. Or God has other things for them to do. Of course you could be right too. Some might think the people here are not worth it. In God's eyes they are worth it. 

Yes, for God so loved the world!  We have had all kinds people come and go.  Some were even shown the door.  Those who choose to leave don't always tell us why, while others do when they request their account be deleted.  Though I cannot tell you specifics, I can tell you that they do feel hated by the responses they get.  This has been true, but what is also true is that I believe they are not used to defending their faith, nor do they have debating skills when it gets heavy.  Some have what is called thin skin and get offended very easily.

But still, this really should not happen when mature brothers and sisters discuss what they believe and why.  I guess it speaks just as much of their fruit as it does their maturity.

3 hours ago, Reinitin said:

Well im confused:) this post on wheat and tares is suposably a public display or judgment about people on worthy chat and who ever the tares in here are they are breaking worthy chat rules. Honestly i cant figure out who are being accused of being tares? The catholics that left or the people grumbling at their doctrins. Im am completely clueless. I just know judging a christian as a tare and then making a pubic sceptical does not seem very mature to me.

Sometimes they are on both sides.  Chat is a place I cannot go into much as I cannot read nor type fast enough to respond.  When there is an issue, and a Chat Servant is not present, I am asked to go in to resolve the issue, but that is it for me.   I am unaware of what incidents people are referring to here, so I cannot speak of it.

2 hours ago, JoshuasonFlower said:

I think what some of us are hoping to achieve is to turn this violation into a reminder of Jesus ministry and purpose.

I will say that this is the prayer of all who serve here, that our members will take part in turning this site around and help it become a place where people can feel Christ, to learn of Him and His ways, to become mentors to others and help disciple.  Just because one does not hold a staff position here does not mean they are not called of God.  I am always reminded of 1 Corinthians 12:12-26

For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ.  For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.  For in fact the body is not one member but many.

If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I am not of the body,” is it therefore not of the body?  And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I am not of the body,” is it therefore not of the body?  If the whole body were an eye, where would be the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where would be the smelling?  But now God has set the members, each one of them, in the body just as He pleased.  And if they were all one member, where would the body be?

But now indeed there are many members, yet one body.  And the eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you”; nor again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.”  No, much rather, those members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary.  And those members of the body which we think to be less honorable, on these we bestow greater honor; and our unpresentable parts have greater modesty,  but our presentable parts have no need. But God composed the body, having given greater honor to that part which lacks it,  that there should be no schism in the body, but that the members should have the same care for one another.  And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; or if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.

Some may think that they need to be part of this ministry in order to have a position of leadership.  The above verses proves that this is not true.  We may have a position some may see as honorable, yet, we are servants, constantly in PM with people, stopping things from going too far, giving advice and encouraging people in how to post within the TOS, keeping the spammers and troublemakers out, etc.  We give up time as mentors so to keep this place in the best condition as we can, and there are only a few who can be here enough to make a difference.  I am not sure if the members know that they are the ones who are really available to lead by example, the ones who think they are less honorable because they are not part of the staff, but on these we bestow greater honor.

1 hour ago, JoshuasonFlower said:

The original posting doesn't speak of all this transpiring in a chat room here. Aren't there moderators present in chat so as to insure this kind of thing doesn't happen there? If it is against the rules in chat? I thought it was against the rules in the terms of service page that I read.

Yes, we are here in different times during the day and night.  If you take notice, there are only three board servant, and a hand full of chat servants, yet we all volunteer while holding jobs and having families.  We depend on the members more than they realize to find us when trouble arises in Chat, and to report board posts when they see violations.  There are hundreds, and sometimes thousands of posts created daily.  There is not enough time in a day for us to moderate alone.  Chat is a whole other world in itself, fast paced, constant changing topics, scrolling text, etc. 

I hope this reaches those whom it was meant for and God moves in them to become more critical to this site.  We are all in one body, though we have different duties and purposes.

God Bless.