Resurrection Sunday Question

[Spock]

I know copying a link to a website isn't always cool, but for anyone who wants to research this further, this link has some very good information to help you understand the history behind Easter. Check it out at least. 

https://www.ucg.org/the-good-news/christians-who-dont-celebrate-easter-what-do-they-know

[Guest shiloh357]

19 hours ago, Spock said:

I know copying a link to a website isn't always cool, but for anyone who wants to research this further, this link has some very good information to help you understand the history behind Easter. Check it out at least. 

https://www.ucg.org/the-good-news/christians-who-dont-celebrate-easter-what-do-they-know

The article conflates the celebration of Jesus' resurrection on Easter, with secular the celebration of Easter.  Those are two different things.     I realize that in modern parlance, we tend to see them as the same thing.  

The early church was not trying to hold on to their pagan roots by creating a celebration of the resurrection of Jesus on Easter.   They were trying to give the new converts something to do on Easter that honors Jesus so that they would not engage in the pagan fertility observances they were saved out of.  They did not want them to be tempted to go back to their pagan holidays.    The same thing applies to Christmas.

 

 

 

[JoshuasonFlower]

On 4/18/2017 at 2:47 PM, WailingWall said:

The early church leaders should not have done that.

DEUTERONOMY 12 [29] When the Lord thy God shall cut off the nations from before thee, whither thou goest to possess them, and thou succeedest them, and dwellest in their land; [30] Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise.

I would doubt there is proof that the early church leaders did do what was claimed by Shiloh.
I have lived in an area that was very popular with what was considered the grand old man of wicca, his creation to rework the word witchcraft, Gerald Gardner. Witchcraft was illegal in Britain until near middle of the 20th century. When the old laws were repealed Gardner published a work entitled, Witchcraft Today.

In that work he made the claim that is being made here by some now seeking to recant. That the early pagan calendar in Europe was overtaken by the church missionaries. Those people then turned Yule or winters solstice into Christmas, the feast of the goddess of fertility Ostara into Easter, which would explain the egg's and the rabbits, symbols of rampant procreation, Samhain, the feast remembering dead relatives,  into Halloween. Going so far as to claim the Jack-O-Lantern of today was the carved lantern of yesterday when the practice of pagan arts with the church and crown aligned were forbidden. Therefore rites were performed in secret.

All manner of claims this Gardner person made and gained quite a following for. His practice became known as Gardnerian Wicca. He claimed to have learned his so called craft from a secret coven of witches . All of it was lies. Every last bit. He conspired with a woman of Britain, Doreen Valiente, who died not but a few years ago, to create a legacy of falsehood that still survives today.  Gardner's motive for the claim that the Christian missionaries to ancient Britain overcame the pagan celebrations, and even going so far as to claim churches were built on ancient pagan ritual ground, so as to have a location for which the pagans intended to be converted would be familiar. Making their journey to church an easier and familiar one to navigate to.

Therefore, with that brief history shared, I wouldn't worry overmuch about the claims as I've described having their origin in. I don't believe early church fathers would contaminate our Lord's days with such evil. I'd seek proof before I'd be over worried brother.

 

 

On 4/18/2017 at 4:36 PM, shiloh357 said:

I don't think you really paid attention to what I said.   I said they were NOT mixing paganism with Christianity.

I believe if that is what you intend to say now that you are still entitled by the boards edit clock to edit what you actually said prior: Posted here to assist.

On 4/18/2017 at 6:06 AM, shiloh357 said:

So the early church had to come with ways to "Christianize" (for a lack of a better word) pagan customs.   They had to find ways to give early believers a way to honor God in their cultural context, and that is likely where the custom of celebrating Christ's birthday came from.   And it is also where celebrating Jesus' resurrection came from in the context of "new life"  represented in the fertility rites of the ancient world. 

So the early church leaders were not trying to be both pagan and Christian at the same time.  They were not trying to hold on to paganism while trying to Christian or mix paganism with Christianity.

Edited April 20, 2017 by JoshuasonFlower

[Guest shiloh357]

1 minute ago, JoshuasonFlower said:

I believe if that is what you intend to say now that you are still entitled by the boards edit clock to edit what you actually said prior: Posted here to assist.

Nonsense.  Nothing I said needs editing, as nothing I said is contradictory.  

[Omegaman 3.0]

On 4/17/2017 at 5:09 PM, Spock said:

Why can't "we" change the date we celebrate this important event for Christians to the date that is Biblical?  3 days after Passover, which happens to be the Feast of First Fruits (Jewish calendar). 

Romans 14:5

One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.

No one forces you to celebrate Easter or Resurrection Sunday. No one forces you to honor Ishtar, and you are free to participate or not, when you want, if at all (at least in the U.S.)

So what it the problem? Do what you want, when you want, and allow others to do the same. Idols and false gods are nothing. There is the real God, and apart from God, there are no gods, so pay them the honor and focus that false gods deserve, which is nothing.

On the other hand, perhaps shift your focus, to the fact that Go the Son, became a man, lived sinlessly, died sacrificially so that sinners could enjoy fellowship with the living God. Through faith in Jesus and His resurrection, idol worshipers receive by grace, the gift of salvation.

Believers then, are commanded to spread this great news, to those who do not believe, we seek the conversion of pagans (unbelievers). I think the Early church did a wise thing  to not only convert pagans, but to convert their holidays and traditions, to a new focus. Halloween is the memorial day of the saints (all hallows eve). Christmas celebrates the coming of the Messiah, not some Roman god. It is up to us, to keep the Christ in Christmas.

Whether you like reindeer and colored eggs, or the birth of the Messiah and His resurrection, the focus is up to you, and the actual dates are not the issue, since everyday is appropriate to celebrate. Maybe the real question should be, "Why only on one Sunday a year?"

[Wayne222]

This is just more of being under the law. It's Jesus that counts the stone the builders rejected. We have freedom in christ. It's insidious the way people try to put Christians under the Jewish law.

[Spock]

1 hour ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

Romans 14:5

One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.

No one forces you to celebrate Easter or Resurrection Sunday. No one forces you to honor Ishtar, and you are free to participate or not, when you want, if at all (at least in the U.S.)

So what it the problem? Do what you want, when you want, and allow others to do the same. Idols and false gods are nothing. There is the real God, and apart from God, there are no gods, so pay them the honor and focus that false gods deserve, which is nothing.

On the other hand, perhaps shift your focus, to the fact that Go the Son, became a man, lived sinlessly, died sacrificially so that sinners could enjoy fellowship with the living God. Through faith in Jesus and His resurrection, idol worshipers receive by grace, the gift of salvation.

Believers then, are commanded to spread this great news, to those who do not believe, we seek the conversion of pagans (unbelievers). I think the Early church did a wise thing  to not only convert pagans, but to convert their holidays and traditions, to a new focus. Halloween is the memorial day of the saints (all hallows eve). Christmas celebrates the coming of the Messiah, not some Roman god. It is up to us, to keep the Christ in Christmas.

Whether you like reindeer and colored eggs, or the birth of the Messiah and His resurrection, the focus is up to you, and the actual dates are not the issue, since everyday is appropriate to celebrate. Maybe the real question should be, "Why only on one Sunday a year?"

So, to summarize your post, you don't think God cares the least bit when or why we honor certain days, like the birth of Christ or the resurrection of Christ? 

I don't know about that, I'm not convinced as you are.  Again, I turn to the 7 Feasts of Leviticus 23 and I think these are pretty important Feasts with specific days to honor.  And I don't just think they are for Jews only. Of course, that is me.

i also believe many believers don't know what I know and have not studied the origin of Easter or Christmas and therefore I feel somewhat responsible to share my knowledge and research. I actually believe God does care about these matters, no matter what Romans 14 says. (Another subject for another time- exegesis of Romans 14) 

[Spock]

47 minutes ago, Wayne222 said:

This is just more of being under the law. It's Jesus that counts the stone the builders rejected. We have freedom in christ. It's insidious the way people try to put Christians under the Jewish law.

God is a jealous God, you know. 

[Guest shiloh357]

9 minutes ago, Spock said:

God is a jealous God, you know. 

Which only applies if you're worshiping other gods.

[Guest shiloh357]

11 minutes ago, Spock said:

So, to summarize your post, you don't think God cares the least bit when or why we honor certain days, like the birth of Christ or the resurrection of Christ? 

I don't know about that, I'm not convinced as you are.  Again, I turn to the 7 Feasts of Leviticus 23 and I think these are pretty important Feasts with specific days to honor.  And I don't just think they are for Jews only. Of course, that is me.

i also believe many believers don't know what I know and have not studied the origin of Easter or Christmas and therefore I feel somewhat responsible to share my knowledge and research. I actually believe God does care about these matters, no matter what Romans 14 says. (Another subject for another time- exegesis of Romans 14) 

the problem is in assuming that what God gave to Israel was intended for everyone else.  Not every commandment is for all people, for all time.   And I would add that in addition to those festivals, there were obligatory sacrifices to be made.   So...  Are you really keeping the festivals if you don't include those?