Timing of the seals question

[Marilyn C]

15 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

I don't care who calls it what....I make a point to call it Daniels 70th Week. I say that 3.5 years are the FAKE PEACE and 3.5 Years are the Day of the Lord or Tribulation. But the Troubles of Jacob can also fit, because even though its only 3.5 YEARS of Wrath,

Hi Revelation Man,

It seems we agree on quite a lot. Now I know you are discussing with our friend Spock, but would like to point out something you may not have seen before concerning the Day of the Lord and the Day of Wrath.

`The great Day of the Lord is near; it is near and hastens quickly. The noise of the Day of the Lord is bitter; there the mighty men cry out. That Day is a Day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of devastation and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and alarm against the fortified cities and against the high towers.` (Zephaniah 1: 14 - 16)

So we see that the Day of the Lord is also described as the Day of Wrath.

Wrath - Gk. `orge,` expresses wrath, anger, vengeance with connotations of punishment. `To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity.` (Isa. 26: 21)

I think what has confused people is Rev. 6: 17. The Day can be a single day and also fig. a time period.

Also Rev. 15 concerning the `bowls of wrath.` People think that is when the `wrath` starts. However a careful look at verse one shows us that actually the `bowls` are the completion of God`s wrath. Thus again we see that the Day of the Lord, (tribulation) is also the Day of God`s wrath - the whole 70th week.

Interested to hear what you think. Marilyn.

 

[wingnut-]

4 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

the Remnant of the Church is NOT PROTECTED.

 

Sorry, there is no such thing no matter how many times you say it.  If the church gets removed as you claim, there would be no remnant, it would be gone and there would be nothing left but unbelieving people and the 1/3 of the Jews who are protected.  You post no scripture to support your claims, so we'll just leave it at that.

Apologies Spock for going off topic again.

God bless

[Revelation Man]

8 minutes ago, wingnut- said:

 

Sorry, there is no such thing no matter how many times you say it.  If the church gets removed as you claim, there would be no remnant, it would be gone and there would be nothing left but unbelieving people and the 1/3 of the Jews who are protected.  You post no scripture to support your claims, so we'll just leave it at that.

Apologies Spock for going off topic again.

God bless

Square peg in square hole....I shant continue to try and explain it so just drop it. 

[Revelation Man]

4 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Revelation Man,

It seems we agree on quite a lot. Now I know you are discussing with our friend Spock, but would like to point out something you may not have seen before concerning the Day of the Lord and the Day of Wrath.

`The great Day of the Lord is near; it is near and hastens quickly. The noise of the Day of the Lord is bitter; there the mighty men cry out. That Day is a Day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of devastation and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and alarm against the fortified cities and against the high towers.` (Zephaniah 1: 14 - 16)

So we see that the Day of the Lord is also described as the Day of Wrath.

Wrath - Gk. `orge,` expresses wrath, anger, vengeance with connotations of punishment. `To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity.` (Isa. 26: 21)

I think what has confused people is Rev. 6: 17. The Day can be a single day and also fig. a time period.

Also Rev. 15 concerning the `bowls of wrath.` People think that is when the `wrath` starts. However a careful look at verse one shows us that actually the `bowls` are the completion of God`s wrath. Thus again we see that the Day of the Lord, (tribulation) is also the Day of God`s wrath - the whole 70th week.

Interested to hear what you think. Marilyn.

 

I just posted about the whole book of Revelation over on the Prophecy Board in a thread called "Thoughts on the Book of Revelation".  My thoughts from A-Z.

I think Gods Wrath starts at the First Seal that is broken. No one is dying, there is no punishment/no judgment until the First Seal is Broken, AND.....Who breaks the Seal? The Lord Jesus..........The Day/Vengeance of the Lord. Picture it.... its the Vengeance of the Lord and the Lord says COME FORTH Anti-Christ/Beast/Little Horn......come forth WARS...... come forth FAMINE, come forth DISEASE & DEATH.  Then the Lord testifies to the coming Martyrs in Seak number 5, basically using them as a Witness unto the Anti-Christs and this Worlds evils. Then the LORD says come forth EARTHQUAKES....And I give you a Blackened Moon/Red Moon and Meteorites crashing into the Earth !! 

You catch my drift here? The WRATH of the Lord begins with the Seals and ends with the Seventh Vial. I think the Troubles of Jacob begin at the Rapture. All the Christians are Gone, leaving only those who HATE/DETEST Israel, they are forced into a PEACE DEAL by this Tyrant, all Seven Years are Jacobs Trouble imho, the Wrath of God is not for Israel whom He will redeem and protect, or for the Church who is in Heaven, but for the Governments of the world, whom God sees as Babylon.

The Lord unleashes hell on Earth starting with the First Seal............then he wipes out the Statue when Jesus Returns.  I see the WRATH/Day of the Lord as 3.5 years, not the full Seven Years. The Day of the Lord is a period of time, you are very correct, just like the ONE HOUR mentioned in Rev. 17 and Rev. 18 is not really ONE HOUR but it means a Short time.

Yes they think something starts at Rev. 6:17 but it actually starts at Rev. 6:1........The Seals Begin the Wrath of God. 

Seals = The Lambs Wrath

Trumpets = The Holy Spirit's Wrath 

Vials = The Father Gods Wrath

All are Gods Wrath. 

The EARTHQUAKE is where the World finally understands that they are in the Day of the Lords Wrath. But all the Seals are Gods Wrath, Jesus is unleashing this on mankind.

God Bless

Edited May 11, 2017 by Revelation Man

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

I just posted about the whole book of Revelation over on the Prophecy Board in a thread called "Thoughts on the Book of Revelation".  My thoughts from A-Z.

 

God Bless

Thank you Rev. Man, I`ll go and have a read.

regards, Marilyn.

[wingnut-]

On 5/9/2017 at 3:47 PM, Spock said:

He makes an interesting point, but no.  

It doesn't make sense to me that Jesus, who is opening the scrolls, has himself in it.  Does it make sense to you?  And like I said, I see this happening AFTER his ascension to heaven.  Lastly, these are seal JUDGMENTS. Nothing good comes out of a judgement.  

This is how I see it. Not saying it is the Gospel and I do like how wing nut is using scripture to interpret scripture, but I think the rider on the white horse might be someone who initially was well loved and received, thus riding the white horse.  

 

Hey brother,

Something else occurred to me last night that may help clarify what I am saying and why I say there really is no doubt as to who the 1st rider is.  There is a consistency with symbolism in the bible.  Take this one example for instance, Jesus, referred to as the Lamb of God.  So anywhere you read in the bible a reference to the Lamb of God, the Lamb who was slain, blood of the Lamb, wrath of the Lamb, etc.  When you see that mentioned, including all the way back to the OT where sacrifices were being made, you know that the symbolism is pointing you to Jesus and the sacrifice He made.  No question about it, right?

The rider on the white horse is the exact same thing, when a symbol is given, it always means the same thing no matter where you find it in scripture.  In the case of the rider on the white horse, John references the symbol within the same book.  Also, there is more symbolism incorporated with this rider, the color white, consistently representative of purity.  Throughout the bible it is a color often associated with angels, and it also is used to describe the great multitude in heaven as well.

 

Revelation 7:9  9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands,

 

Revelation 7:13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?”

14 And I said to him, “Sir, you know.”

So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

 

It is also attributed to the 24 elders in heaven...

 

Revelation 4:4  Around the throne were twenty-four thrones, and on the thrones I saw twenty-four elders sitting, clothed in white robes; and they had crowns of gold on their heads.

 

It is also said of Jesus at the beginning of Revelation...

 

Revelation 1:14  His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and His eyes like a flame of fire;

 

In the OT we find some more examples here....

 

Isaiah 1:18  “Come now, and let us reason together,” Says the Lord, “Though your sins are like scarlet, They shall be as white as snow; Though they are red like crimson, They shall be as wool.

 

Daniel 7:9   “I watched till thrones were put in place, And the Ancient of Days was seated; His garment was white as snow, And the hair of His head was like pure wool. His throne was a fiery flame, Its wheels a burning fire;

 

And in the NT.....

 

Matthew 28:3  His countenance was like lightning, and his clothing as white as snow.

 

Mark 9:3  His clothes became shining, exceedingly white, like snow, such as no launderer on earth can whiten them.

 

The point is, white is symbolic of purity.  The majority of these references are to Jesus Himself, and the others are to those who are made white by the blood of the Lamb.  White always points you to Jesus or to His blood, which is why as I said before, there really is no debate as to whom the 1st rider is as long as you take all of scripture into account and apply the symbolism you have been given.  Symbols do not change their meaning, and we do not serve a God of confusion, the simplest answer is the correct answer, and the answers are always found in scripture.

God bless

[missmuffet]

If a person thinks the first rider is Christ this is characteristic of the historical school of interpretation. That regards Revelation as history rather than in the future. Christ comes on a white horse at the end of the tribulation not at the beginning. The four horses and their riders have a likeness to each other. The other three horsemen are all evil full of tragedy and destruction. Christ can not be put on that level. The rider has a bow but no arrows which means a bloodless victory. A temporary victory is his.

[wingnut-]

6 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

If a person thinks the first rider is Christ this is characteristic of the historical school of interpretation. That regards Revelation as history rather than in the future. Christ comes on a white horse at the end of the tribulation not at the beginning. The four horses and their riders have a likeness to each other. The other three horsemen are all evil full of tragedy and destruction. Christ can not be put on that level. The rider has a bow but no arrows which means a bloodless victory. A temporary victory is his.

 

This is also a historical event found in the book of Revelation.

 

Revelation 12  Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars. 2 Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth.

3 And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads. 4 His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born. 5 She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne.

 

So how does that fit with your theory, is Jesus going to be born again after the tribulation begins?

[missmuffet]

8 minutes ago, wingnut- said:

 

This is also a historical event found in the book of Revelation.

 

Revelation 12  Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars. 2 Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth.

3 And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads. 4 His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born. 5 She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne.

 

So how does that fit with your theory, is Jesus going to be born again after the tribulation begins?

Who is this woman according to you?

[wingnut-]

Just now, missmuffet said:

Who is this woman according to you?

 

Israel