The Shroud of Turin, The True Cross, The Holy Grail, The Lance, The Ark of Covenant and Other Relics

[TheMatrixHasU71]

7 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said:

Is the Holy Grail a cup or dish? Is it made of wood, alabaster, or precious metals? Where did it go?

As only wealthy people could afford metal or glass the cup would have been wooden and has long since rotted away. Quite irrelevant anyway.

[MorningGlory]

Having read a lot about the Shroud of Turin, and watched a lot of documentaries, I believe the Shroud is most likely the burial shroud of Jesus.  It follows the description of Jesus' treatment at the hands of the Romans which is in the Bible. The image had to have been made supernaturally because the experts have found no way it could have been painted or photographed or anything else.  The face cloth which is housed in a monastery in France, and purported to be the cloth that covered the Lord's face, exactly coorelates to the stains of the Shroud. The rest of that stuff.....I tend not to believe everything I see or hear.  A lot of it is fake, IMO.

[Guest shiloh357]

2 hours ago, Judas Machabeus said:

What I've heard is that during an excuvation a bunch of crosses were found and when one was touched and a miracle was performed (I thought it brought someone back to life, but it might have been a healing) and that is why it's believed to be the true cross. Doesn't matter is 1000 people were crucified in the same cross as Jesus... it's still the cross our Lord was nailed to. If all this true cross stuff is true.

 

Even demons can perform miracles.

Quote

 

Heres my take on relics, we see bones of the dead performing miricles (2 kings 13:21) we see articles of clothing healing (Matt 9:21), we see that even Peters shadow was believed to have the power to heal (acts 5:15).  

So for someone to say that veneration of relics is a midevil creation or a Catholic Church creation is mistaken. We see God using bones and clothing as tools for miricles. We see as early as Acts 5 people believing in the power of relics. So it doesn't go against scriputre, that they exsist and that people recognizes their power to perform miricles. 

 

Those were not relics and they were not venerated.   The early Church  was made up of  Christians and authentic followers of Jesus.  They not Roman Catholics.   The early Christians didn't go around looking for relics. Peter's shadow was not relic and was not venerated.

The Roman cult  likes to read their ideology retroactively into the Bible, but there is no biblical basis for relics, especially the veneration of them.   Jesus is the ONLY object of our veneration.  Veneration of anything or anyone else is idolatry.

 

[TheMatrixHasU71]

7 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said:

Is the Ark of Covenant somewhere in Arabia, Sinai, or Israel? Or has it return to God (Revelation 11:19)

It has returned to God as Revelation states. God would have have allowed such a thing to rot under the ground. Catholics like to believe the Ark is Mary (at least I have heard a few state that) but the ark is what it is, a wooden and gold box, not a person and it is in heaven. 

[missmuffet]

50 minutes ago, other one said:

To quote Hillary Clinton, "what difference does it make"

Is people's  faith so weak we need trinkets to believe?

That is true

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

19 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Peter's shadow was not relic and was not venerated.

I would disagree and so does scriputre. 

Acts 5:15

15 so that they even carried out the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and pallets, that as Peter came by at least his shadow might fall on some of them. 

[Happinessity]

2 hours ago, MorningGlory said:

Having read a lot about the Shroud of Turin, and watched a lot of documentaries, I believe the Shroud is most likely the burial shroud of Jesus.  It follows the description of Jesus' treatment at the hands of the Romans which is in the Bible. The image had to have been made supernaturally because the experts have found no way it could have been painted or photographed or anything else.  The face cloth which is housed in a monastery in France, and purported to be the cloth that covered the Lord's face, exactly coorelates to the stains of the Shroud. The rest of that stuff.....I tend not to believe everything I see or hear.  A lot of it is fake, IMO.

And relic's hunters probably unknowingly made fraudsters very rich for their troubles. 

I watched a documentary last year, The Real Face of Jesus, that was very impressive as to authenticating the shroud. I believe it is real based on what those investigators found. I think God knows us very well and that there are people that need something to speak to them the proof of Jesus Christ and his divinity. 
What those researchers found in the fibers of the shroud that can only be evidenced in the current century of technical processes seems to me to be the encoding God insured would be there for just such an occasion. I very much enjoyed that documentary. Highly recommend it to any sincere seeker of shroud information sources. 

 

[Fidei Defensor]

2 hours ago, TheMatrixHasU71 said:

It has returned to God as Revelation states. God would have have allowed such a thing to rot under the ground. Catholics like to believe the Ark is Mary (at least I have heard a few state that) but the ark is what it is, a wooden and gold box, not a person and it is in heaven. 

Interestingly, a person has found Ark beneath Golgatha, it is impossible to get to and an angel protects it. It is believed the Jesus' blood fell on it, that from mercy seat of the cross His blood fell on mercy seat that was the Ark.

[Fidei Defensor]

2 hours ago, Judas Machabeus said:

I would disagree and so does scripture. 

Acts 5:15

15 so that they even carried out the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and pallets, that as Peter came by at least his shadow might fall on some of them. 

Indeed, for Paul even had handkerchiefs sent, "God did extraordinary miracles through the hands of Paul. so that even handkerchiefs and aprons that had touched him were taken to the sick, and their illnesses were cured and the evil spirits left them." (Acts 19:11-12).
 

[Fidei Defensor]

2 hours ago, TheMatrixHasU71 said:

As only wealthy people could afford metal or glass the cup would have been wooden and has long since rotted away. Quite irrelevant anyway.

Ah, but the problem is that Jesus did not provide the articles for Last Supper nor did his disciples, "As you go into the city,” he told them, “you will see a certain man. Tell him, ‘The Teacher says: My time has come, and I will eat the Passover meal with my disciples at your house.’” ¹⁹ So the disciples did as Jesus told them and prepared the Passover meal there," (Matthew 26:18-19) and, "He replied, "As you enter the city, a man carrying a jar of water will meet you. Follow him to the house that he enters, and say to the owner of the house, 'The Teacher asks: Where is the guest room, where I may eat the Passover with my disciples?" (Luke 22:10-11). It is impossible to know from Scriptures if the man with upperoom was rich or poor, but I have been to Upperoom in Jerusalem and it was fancy, and so I think possibly rich (afterall Jesus had rich friends like Nicodemius and Joseph of Arimathia, and Zacchaeus, Matthew 27:57-60, Luke 19:1-10).