Genesis 1 & 2

[Guest]

In my study of Genesis 1 and 2 there have been some scholars who say that there are actually two different times man was created. Other scholars believe Genesis 2 goes into more detail of Genesis 1. I believe that Genesis 1:26 was actually the trinity speaking, one of the first prophecies of Jesus Christ, when it says Let Us create man in our image...Elohim bera Let Us create. Elohim plural for God and bera singular verb for to create. What's interesting about this I founid is that the Hebrew verb noun agreement is stricter than the English so the author was çlearly trying to convey the Trinity in this passage.

It's interesting in Genesis 2:4 it does say this is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day the Lord God made earth and heaven. So it definitely does seem like a review and not a 2nd creation of a different creation story. I'm wondering if in 2:4 it isn't talking about the period of the dinosaurs when everything was extremely tropical, humid, and the atmosphere was encased over by clouds but not saturated enough for rain? Because it says, "a mist used to rise from the earth and water the whole surface of the ground". Now is this literal for the environment of the earth or could it be something else? In Hebrew according to one scholar it's actually a defiling mist and represents Satan being clearly present on the earth during the beginning of creation. What do you think?

Edited May 9, 2017 by Allroses48

[Aryeh]

On 09.05.2017 at 2:44 PM, Allroses48 said:

In my study of Genesis 1 and 2 there have been some scholars who say that there are actually two different times man was created. Other scholars believe Genesis 2 goes into more detail of Genesis 1. I believe that Genesis 1:26 was actually the trinity speaking, one of the first prophecies of Jesus Christ, when it says Let Us create man in our image...Elohim bera Let Us create. Elohim plural for God and bera singular verb for to create. What's interesting about this I founid is that the Hebrew verb noun agreement is stricter than the English so the author was çlearly trying to convey the Trinity in this passage.

It's interesting in Genesis 2:4 it does say this is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day the Lord God made earth and heaven. So it definitely does seem like a review and not a 2nd creation of a different creation story. I'm wondering if in 2:4 it isn't talking about the period of the dinosaurs when everything was extremely tropical, humid, and the atmosphere was encased over by clouds but not saturated enough for rain? Because it says, "a mist used to rise from the earth and water the whole surface of the ground". Now is this literal for the environment of the earth or could it be something else? In Hebrew according to one scholar it's actually a defiling mist and represents Satan being clearly present on the earth during the beginning of creation. What do you think?

...and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. <    > And he said to me, "The waters <...> are peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues.

Why do you think that the "water" in the Bible is H2O, and the light is photons? Light is Torah, as it is said in Proverbs. Accordingly, why do you consider the creation of plants and animals in Genesis as the creation of biological objects, and not as a picture of certain spiritual phenomena?

For example, animals are certain qualities of the character of primitive man: "lion" - courage, "wolf" - predation, "hare" - cowardice, "" snake "- cunning and deceit. But all these qualities did not become an assistant to the development of human society. "Wife" - society, has become an "assistant" for every person. "Bone" is "essence" in Hebrew.

The sin of Adam - a man began to listen to people around him, did not listen to the Spirit, but began to live by the mind, to his own self-interest. (In the film "Avatar" Adam is shown before he ate the fruits of knowledge.)

 

[OneLight]

5 minutes ago, Aryeh said:

...and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. <    > And he said to me, "The waters <...> are peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues.

Why do you think that the "water" in the Bible is H2O, and the light is photons? Light is Torah, as it is said in Proverbs. Accordingly, why do you consider the creation of plants and animals in Genesis as the creation of biological objects, and not as a picture of certain spiritual phenomena?

For example, animals are certain qualities of the character of primitive man: "lion" - courage, "wolf" - predation, "hare" - cowardice, "" snake "- cunning and deceit. But all these qualities did not become an assistant to the development of human society. "Wife" - society, has become an "assistant" for every person. "Bone" is "essence" in Hebrew.

The sin of Adam - a man began to listen to people around him, did not listen to the Spirit, but began to live by the mind, to his own self-interest. (In the film "Avatar" Adam is shown before he ate the fruits of knowledge.)

 

I have to admit, this is the first I have ever heard anything like this.  May I ask if you are Gnostic in your belief?

[Aryeh]

6 minutes ago, OneLight said:

I have to admit, this is the first I have ever heard anything like this.  May I ask if you are Gnostic in your belief?

Not at all. I have never even known the Gnostics.

 

[OneLight]

2 hours ago, Aryeh said:

Not at all. I have never even known the Gnostics.

 

Thanks.  The Gnositcs spiritualize everything.  Though your post was speaking more in term of equating, I was not sure as I had never seen anyone describe, or change the meaning of Genesis like this.

 

3 hours ago, Aryeh said:

...and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. <    > And he said to me, "The waters <...> are peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues.

Why do you think that the "water" in the Bible is H2O, and the light is photons? Light is Torah, as it is said in Proverbs. Accordingly, why do you consider the creation of plants and animals in Genesis as the creation of biological objects, and not as a picture of certain spiritual phenomena?

For example, animals are certain qualities of the character of primitive man: "lion" - courage, "wolf" - predation, "hare" - cowardice, "" snake "- cunning and deceit. But all these qualities did not become an assistant to the development of human society. "Wife" - society, has become an "assistant" for every person. "Bone" is "essence" in Hebrew.

The sin of Adam - a man began to listen to people around him, did not listen to the Spirit, but began to live by the mind, to his own self-interest. (In the film "Avatar" Adam is shown before he ate the fruits of knowledge.)

 

You see, I can not find any scriptural references to your post above.  Hence to question of spiritualizing.   As inference to the film Avatar, how do you make that connection?

[simplejeff]

On 5/9/2017 at 6:44 AM, Allroses48 said:

In my study of Genesis 1 and 2 there have been some scholars who say that there are actually two different times man was created. Other scholars believe Genesis 2 goes into more detail of Genesis 1. I believe that Genesis 1:26 was actually the trinity speaking, one of the first prophecies of Jesus Christ, when it says Let Us create man in our image...Elohim bera Let Us create. Elohim plural for God and bera singular verb for to create. What's interesting about this I founid is that the Hebrew verb noun agreement is stricter than the English so the author was çlearly trying to convey the Trinity in this passage.

It's interesting in Genesis 2:4 it does say this is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day the Lord God made earth and heaven. So it definitely does seem like a review and not a 2nd creation of a different creation story. I'm wondering if in 2:4 it isn't talking about the period of the dinosaurs when everything was extremely tropical, humid, and the atmosphere was encased over by clouds but not saturated enough for rain? Because it says, "a mist used to rise from the earth and water the whole surface of the ground". Now is this literal for the environment of the earth or could it be something else? In Hebrew according to one scholar it's actually a defiling mist and represents Satan being clearly present on the earth during the beginning of creation. What do you think?

It appears there are shades of truth to start with,  but compromised conclusions totally not found in Scripture.

i.e. like leaves on a tree,  the leaves (like hasatan being the mist) are not on the tree of truth, not growing and not proceeding from truth but from conjecture or sideways comparison (since hasatan is the prince of the power of the air PERHAPS giving a so-called reason to call the mist satan,  but which is not necessary and causes apparent violence to the truth/ other Scripture)

just for example.    In this last few decades,  hundreds or even thousands , perhaps up to millions,  of different stories are brought up continually,   all starting from seed that is not good seed, not from God's Word, 

but from the deceiver who is the prince of the power of the air,  over all the sons of disobedience (basically the whole world) thus with a huge field of willing subjects... 

So everything must be tested by God's Word,  and be in Harmony with all of God's Word and with God's Spirit, BEFORE being believed or accepted, and especially never to build upon.... (resulting in more and more "leaves" of false teachings, doctrines, etc)

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

It appears there are shades of truth to start with,  but compromised conclusions totally not found in Scripture.

i.e. like leaves on a tree,  the leaves (like hasatan being the mist) are not on the tree of truth, not growing and not proceeding from truth but from conjecture or sideways comparison (since hasatan is the prince of the power of the air PERHAPS giving a so-called reason to call the mist satan,  but which is not necessary and causes apparent violence to the truth/ other Scripture)

just for example.    In this last few decades,  hundreds or even thousands , perhaps up to millions,  of different stories are brought up continually,   all starting from seed that is not good seed, not from God's Word, 

but from the deceiver who is the prince of the power of the air,  over all the sons of disobedience (basically the whole world) thus with a huge field of willing subjects... 

So everything must be tested by God's Word,  and be in Harmony with all of God's Word and with God's Spirit, BEFORE being believed or accepted, and especially never to build upon.... (resulting in more and more "leaves" of false teachings, doctrines, etc)

What compromised conclusions did I make?

[Guest]

According to the Hebrew this mist was supposedly defiling if that's what you're talking about. I can show you the Hebrew.

[simplejeff]

3 hours ago, Aryeh said:

Why do you think that the "water" in the Bible is H2O, and the light is photons?

Who / where is it written the light is photons ?

3 hours ago, Aryeh said:

Accordingly, why do you consider the creation of plants and animals in Genesis as the creation of biological objects, and not as a picture of certain spiritual phenomena?

 

"phenomena" ?  < shrugs >  may be a phenomena,  that is may be spiritual, as YHWH knows and says,

as well as the "creation of plants and animals in Genesis" BEING the creation of plants and animals exactly as YHWH says.

[Aryeh]

1 hour ago, OneLight said:

You see, I can not find any scriptural references to your post above.  Hence to question of spiritualizing.   As inference to the film Avatar, how do you make that connection?

I think Adam had a choice. God gave man freedom of choice. There is a question: what would have happened if Adam had not eaten the fruit from the tree of knowledge? When I managed to see Avatar, I saw Adam's model, which did not eat the fruits of the tree of knowledge.

About the references to Scripture. In my opinion, the fact that "Torah - light", "teaching - light" is written in Proverbs, and you probably know. So it's about water in Revelation. The spirit of the firmament is written in one of the non-canonical books of the Bible.

On the second day, You created a firm spirit and commanded him to separate and divide between the waters, so that some part of them would rise, while the rest would remain below. (3 Esdras 6:41) 

[I'm not sure of Google's automatic translation, I do not have the English text of 3 Esdras.]

The word "firm" in the Russian translation of the Bible is the same as the word "expanse" in Gen. 1:6. So I took this clue to check that "expanse" is a synonym of the Holy Spirit. Further, you remember that in the book of the prophet Daniel wise people are compared with the stars. Excellent! This is well suited, because wisdom must rest on the Holy Spirit, and this Spirit must give firmness in order to stand unshakably. Go straight to Revelation and see that there will be a moment when some of the stars fall to the earth. Here maybe we need to think about the meaning of the word "earth".

So, moving slowly, through trial and error, you can find the meaning of spiritual pictures, which are shown to us in Genesis and Revelation, and in other books of the Bible. Maybe you are interested in the word "bone" - then you need to take a dictionary of Hebrew. I think that such an activity can be useful as an independent exercise.

With respect to the film Avatar, then you remember that alien people were indifferent to the benefits of earthly civilization. This distinguished them from terrestrial savages, who were always greedy for gifts from white people. The terrestrial savages were not attached to the spiritual world, and the fictional Navi of Avatar preferred to keep in touch with God.

It was very interestingly shown by James Cameron.

 

 

Edited May 15, 2017 by Aryeh