SavedOnebyGrace Posted May 11, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,058 Content Per Day: 14.92 Reputation: 5,191 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted May 11, 2017 2 minutes ago, Yowm said: Every time I see it used in Scripture it refers to generations of people. You're missing the context of what I wrote -- quoted from. Their were generations, ages, before the first man, Adam. That is what some Jewish rabbis believe at the time of Jesus and before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 9 minutes ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said: Not necessary at all. You just won't accept what's written in the Bible. There is nothing in the Bible that says the earth is old. So, I do believe what is written. One of the arguments that Evolutionists make against the Bible is that the wording suggests a young earth. It's why they mock Scripture. Quote The Old Earth Viewpoint has nothing to do with evolution. You are spreading a falsehood, a lie, and passing it off as truth and wisdom. The reason the earth is said to be billions of years old is to make room for the evolutionary process. Quote I can put you on Ignore if you prefer. yeah, 'cause that's mature, manly thing to do. Go ahead, I don't really care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 2 minutes ago, Yowm said: Rabbis should speak as their writings speak, not as the Greeks or Romans. Again, generations in Scripture always refer to people. Besides, Jesus many times had to rebuke the tradition of the 'Rabbis'. It takes extra-biblical sources to defend an extra-biblical viewpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sister Posted May 12, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 17 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,727 Content Per Day: 1.04 Reputation: 2,305 Days Won: 5 Joined: 06/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted May 12, 2017 The book of Enoch Section 5 [Chapter 104] 1 I swear unto you, that in heaven the angels remember you for good before the glory of the Great 2 One: and your names are written before the glory of the Great One. Be hopeful; for aforetime ye were put to shame through ill and affliction; but now ye shall shine as the lights of heaven, 3 ye shall shine and ye shall be seen, and the portals of heaven shall be opened to you. And in your cry, cry for judgement, and it shall appear to you; for all your tribulation shall be visited on the 4 rulers, and on all who helped those who plundered you. Be hopeful, and cast not away your hopes for ye shall have great joy as the angels of heaven. What shall ye be obliged to do? Ye shall not have to hide on the day of the great judgement and ye shall not be found as sinners, and the eternal 6 judgement shall be far from you for all the generations of the world. And now fear not, ye righteous, when ye see the sinners growing strong and prospering in their ways: be not companions with them, 7 but keep afar from their violence; for ye shall become companions of the hosts of heaven. And, although ye sinners say: " All our sins shall not be searched out and be written down," nevertheless 8they shall write down all your sins every day. And now I show unto you that light and darkness, 9 day and night, see all your sins. Be not godless in your hearts, and lie not and alter not the words of uprightness, nor charge with lying the words of the Holy Great One, nor take account of your 10 idols; for all your lying and all your godlessness issue not in righteousness but in great sin. And now I know this mystery, that sinners will alter and pervert the words of righteousness in many ways, and will speak wicked words, and lie, and practice great deceits, and write books concerning 11 their words. But when they write down truthfully all my words in their languages, and do not change or minish ought from my words but write them all down truthfully -all that I first testified 12 concerning them. Then, I know another mystery, that books will be given to the righteous and the 13 wise to become a cause of joy and uprightness and much wisdom. And to them shall the books be given, and they shall believe in them and rejoice over them, and then shall all the righteous who have learnt therefrom all the paths of uprightness be recompensed.' [Chapter 105] 1 In those days the Lord bade (them) to summon and testify to the children of earth concerning their wisdom: Show (it) unto them; for ye are their guides, and a recompense over the whole earth. 2For I and My son will be united with them for ever in the paths of uprightness in their lives; and ye shall have peace: rejoice, ye children of uprightness. Amen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sister Posted May 12, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 17 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,727 Content Per Day: 1.04 Reputation: 2,305 Days Won: 5 Joined: 06/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted May 12, 2017 [Chapter 108] 1Another book which Enoch wrote for his son Methuselah and for those who will come after him, 2 and keep the law in the last days. Ye who have done good shall wait for those days till an end is made of those who work evil; and an end of the might of the transgressors. And wait ye indeed till sin has passed away, for their names shall be blotted out of the book of life and out of the holy books, and their seed shall be destroyed for ever, and their spirits shall be slain, and they shall cry and make lamentation in a place that is a chaotic wilderness, and in the fire shall they burn; for there is no earth there. And I saw there something like an invisible cloud; for by reason of its depth I could not look over, and I saw a flame of fire blazing brightly, and things like shining 5 mountains circling and sweeping to and fro. And I asked one of the holy angels who was with me and said unto him: ' What is this shining thing? for it is not a heaven but only the flame of a blazing 6 fire, and the voice of weeping and crying and lamentation and strong pain.' And he said unto me: ' This place which thou seest-here are cast the spirits of sinners and blasphemers, and of those who work wickedness, and of those who pervert everything that the Lord hath spoken through the mouth 7 of the prophets-(even) the things that shall be. For some of them are written and inscribed above in the heaven, in order that the angels may read them and know that which shall befall the sinners, and the spirits of the humble, and of those who have afflicted their bodies, and been recompensed 8 by God; and of those who have been put to shame by wicked men: Who love God and loved neither gold nor silver nor any of the good things which are in the world, but gave over their bodies to torture. Who, since they came into being, longed not after earthly food, but regarded everything as a passing breath, and lived accordingly, and the Lord tried them much, and their spirits were 10 found pure so that they should bless His name. And all the blessings destined for them I have recounted in the books. And he hath assigned them their recompense, because they have been found to be such as loved heaven more than their life in the world, and though they were trodden under foot of wicked men, and experienced abuse and reviling from them and were put to shame, 11 yet they blessed Me. And now I will summon the spirits of the good who belong to the generation of light, and I will transform those who were born in darkness, who in the flesh were not recompensed 12 with such honour as their faithfulness deserved. And I will bring forth in shining light those who 13 have loved My holy name, and I will seat each on the throne of his honour. And they shall be resplendent for times without number; for righteousness is the judgement of God; for to the faithful 14 He will give faithfulness in the habitation of upright paths. And they shall see those who were , 15 born in darkness led into darkness, while the righteous shall be resplendent. And the sinners shall cry aloud and see them resplendent, and they indeed will go where days and seasons are prescribed for them.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daughterofGrace Posted May 12, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 136 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 145 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/20/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 12, 2017 On 5/9/2017 at 7:32 PM, Judas Machabeus said: The 66 book canon is Luthers canon and not the early Churches Canon. Actually, JM, that isn't true. The 66 books of the Bible were canonized centuries before Luther came along. I posted this in another thread on the canon and gladly re-post it here. Please note the passages I have put in bold print. It's true that the books of the Bible were not formally canonized until 363 A.D. at the Council of Laodicea (the one exception being the Book of Revelation). However, there was almost universal agreement on the Hebrew Scriptures by 250 A.D., with some still arguing that the Apochrypha should be included, while the majority recognized it was not up to snuff and should, therefore, be left out. So it was. The books of the New Testament were informally in place by the end of the second century. The Muratorian Canon (170 A.D.) included all the books except Hebrews, James and 3 John. There were four criteria for declaring a book part of the official canon: 1. The author of a book had to either have known Jesus or known someone who knew Jesus. 2. The book had to be accepted and used by the majority of Christian churches. 3. The book had to be consistent in its doctrines and teachings. 4. It had to show the marks of the Holy Spirit in its contents. There were debates about the three books left out of the Muratorian Canon as well as questions about 2 Peter and 2 John (the former showing a markedly different writing style than 1 Peter; therefore some questioned the authorship of it). But some books were shoe-ins -- the four Gospels, for example, because of their authorship (by someone who knew Jesus or who knew those who knew Jesus). We can also tell from the writings of the early church fathers which books were considered authoritative long before the official canonization of them. Clement of Rome mentioned at least eight New Testament books (A.D. 95). Ignatius of Antioch acknowledged about seven books (A.D. 115). Polycarp, a disciple of John the apostle, acknowledged 15 books (A.D. 108). Later, Irenaeus mentioned 21 books (A.D. 185). Hippolytus recognized 22 books (A.D. 170-235). So when critics attack the Bible, insisting that the books in it weren't even written until a couple of centuries after Christ, we know they haven't done the historical research to discover the truth. And this is why the so-called "missing gospels" such as the Gospel of Thomas or the Gospel of Judas, for example, are not in the canon. They were written too late and not by the people who bear their names but by people who didn't know Jesus or any of those who knew him. A few good resources are: The Canon of Scripture by F. F. Bruce An Introduction to the Bible by Norman Geisler and William Nix https://bible.org/seriespage/7-bible-holy-canon-scripture http://www.dts.edu/media/play/the-missing-gospels-1-of-3-darrell-l-bock-w-hall-harris-iii-and-daniel-b-wallace/?audio=true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted May 12, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 186 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,242 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 16,658 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted May 12, 2017 On 5/9/2017 at 11:35 AM, Allroses48 said: I would have to disagree with that because the first century Christians (meaning the bible authors themselves as well as OT authors) considered the Book of Enoch divinely inspired. My thoughts are that the Ethiopian Orthodox Church has the complete canon (88 books). Enoch is quoted, mentioned and alluded to throughout the Bible. The compilation of the 66 came way after the first century Christians. I've learned that we have to take what the authors considered as sacred canon/important books to get a fuller understanding of the Bible. Recent scholarship agrees that the Hebrew Scriptures were used in the Temple at the time of Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daughterofGrace Posted May 12, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 136 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 145 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/20/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 12, 2017 On 5/9/2017 at 1:49 PM, Allroses48 said: Yeah it seems that in the 66, none of the books I numbered were included in the Bible but were either mentioned, quoted, or alluded too. I am not sure if they are all considered divinely inspired but according to Dr. Lumpkins is a scholar on Enoch, the first century Christians considered Enoch divinely inspired. What evidence does Lumpkin give for this? Aside from one supposed allusion to the Book of Enoch in Jude (and some scholars doubt that it really is referring to that book specifically), is there anything that provides concrete evidence that the first-century Christians considered it divinely inspired? It was never part of the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible). That would suggest to me that first-century Christians, many of whom were Jewish, would not give credence to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted May 12, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,129 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,857 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted May 12, 2017 11 minutes ago, Willa said: Recent scholarship agrees that the Hebrew Scriptures were used in the Temple at the time of Jesus. But when Jesus quoted the old testament most of the time it was the septuagint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SavedOnebyGrace Posted May 12, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,058 Content Per Day: 14.92 Reputation: 5,191 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted May 12, 2017 12 hours ago, other one said: But when Jesus quoted the old testament most of the time it was the septuagint. Source: Septuagint Origin It is an error to say Jesus quoted from the Septuagint. That it included copying errors and corruptions from other translations does not bode well for the inerrancy of the scriptures that Jesus would use. This is nothing more than wishful thinking for some who want to elevate the Septuagint to a place it doesn't merit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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