Guest Judas Machabeus Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 11 minutes ago, Spock said: Disclaimer: I'm not sure what the RCC beliefs are when one confesses their sin to a priest. Is God involved? Or does God trust solely in his representative, the priest? The sins are forgiven by the Holy Spirit. The priest is what He uses to do it. First Jesus breathes on the Aposltes and says receive the Holy Spirit. Then he gives the authority to forgive sins. Holy Spirit first, that is the important part. John 20:22-23 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 14 minutes ago, Spock said: If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1 Shiloh, are you absolutely sure we have to confess to God only? It seems to me God loves humility, and confessing sin to one another seems like a good thing to me, even if not directly to God. Confessing sin in I John 1:9 has Jesus as the one who we confess our sins to. He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Nowhere in the Bible are we commanded to air the dirty laundry and tell everyone every sin we ever committed. That is not what James or John mean. James is telling us to have the humility to be honest with other believers about the areas in our walk with God where we struggle so they can pray in intercession for us. He is not saying to tell the Church how many times you lusted today, or how many curse words you used, or whatever. I John 1:9 is about the cleansing of our conscience and what I call the "experience of forgiveness." Jesus' death on the cross paid for all of our sins, past, present and future. We are forgiven because of what Jesus did. We appropriate forgiveness the minute we are born again. And we walk in a state of His forgiveness. But when we sin, our sins obstruct our fellowship with Him and they bring us under guilt and condemnation. Confession of sin is for us, not for God. God's justice has already been satisfied. We need to confess to Jesus so that we can have the peace of His forgiveness rush over our hearts and minds and that prevents the enemy from using our sins against us to bring us under condemnation. But nowhere are we told to enumerate all of our sins to other believers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted May 13, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted May 13, 2017 I would like to make a comment to follow up on Fidel's intention for this thread.....we all know our debating of doctrines can get intense at times, right? Heck, I had some intense conversations with Judas and one other RCC on my Maryology thread, and it may have caused some hard feelings. This thread was meant to bring us together NOT to debate or find fault with ones theology but rather to embrace our common ground. (I believe Fidei should have said we should delight in our similarities rather than differences.) I was able to have some conversation with Judas on a non threatening manner and now I got to know more about him to make him become a real person to me and not just some person who prays to Mary. I feel we now see each other with our guard dropped and our suspicions toward each other alleviated. That I believe is what Fidei was trying to accomplish and why I believe his intentions were very good. Of course we could continue our debates.......but hopefully, not in this thread.....our ECUMENICAL thread. Lol spock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted May 13, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted May 13, 2017 Shiloh, "But nowhere are we told to enumerate all of our sins to other believers. " i don't know about this brother. I confess my sins or wrongdoing often to people when the Spirit convicts me of wrong doing. Ask my wife! (I also confess it to God as well. ) I don't see anything wrong with people confessing sins to anyone.....it shows humility and we all know God hates a proud look. Getting back to unloading to a priest....it is probably not an easy thing to do....unload your wrongdoings to another person (look at him as a shrink if you will) knowing that it puts you in an unfavorable light. And when Judas' priest told him to make dinner or take his gf out for dinner as penance for his wrongdoing to her, I see good things that can result with that kind of guidance. Dont get me wrong....I'm not running out myself looking for a priest to mediate for me to God, but I don't think we should be judging this practice to harshly when there seem to be obvious benefits and there is a spirit of humility involved in the act. I know you and others may disagree, and that is fine too. But one motto I live by in my faith walk is this: MAJOR IN THE MAJORS AND MINOR IN THE MINORS! Spock 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted May 13, 2017 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.38 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted May 13, 2017 21 minutes ago, Spock said: but I don't think we should be judging this practice to harshly when there seem to be obvious benefits and there is a spirit of humility involved in the act. When an abomination is practiced, like the confessional or the mash, YHWH'S WORD says to have nothing to do with it, but rather expose it, as Charles Chiniquy, Martin Luther, Keith Green, David WIlkerson, and thousands of others have thoroughly and utterly and completely done already , finished and complete work showing it is of the devil and not of YHWH and that it is opposed to HIS WORD, absolutely, not "maybe"... it is used to oppress and to control and to deceive billions of people, every day, for centuries already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appy Posted May 14, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 23 Topic Count: 133 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,864 Content Per Day: 0.62 Reputation: 2,596 Days Won: 2 Joined: 08/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted May 14, 2017 The definition for ecumenism is "the principle or aim of promoting unity among the world's Christian churches" (quote) we know that everyone's salvation -- Catholic and non-Catholic -- is through the Catholic Church, ( end quote) This quote came from a catholic page. The above definition for the word ecumenism can not be construed as meaning “to share the gospel with unbeliever's who have never heard the gospel” unless the rcc already considers those who are not rcc members unsaved. Even if a person who does believe in Jesus and calls him Lord and savior cannot according to the rcc church share in communion because they are not members of the rcc. They must be rcc members first. Ecumenism isn't about sharing common ground as is hinted in the first post, but about getting all other churches that call themselves Christian to belong to one church at all costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted May 14, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted May 14, 2017 38 minutes ago, giggling appy said: The definition for ecumenism is "the principle or aim of promoting unity among the world's Christian churches" (quote) we know that everyone's salvation -- Catholic and non-Catholic -- is through the Catholic Church, ( end quote) This quote came from a catholic page. The above definition for the word ecumenism can not be construed as meaning “to share the gospel with unbeliever's who have never heard the gospel” unless the rcc already considers those who are not rcc members unsaved. Even if a person who does believe in Jesus and calls him Lord and savior cannot according to the rcc church share in communion because they are not members of the rcc. They must be rcc members first. Ecumenism isn't about sharing common ground as is hinted in the first post, but about getting all other churches that call themselves Christian to belong to one church at all costs. Hmmmm. I'm a bit confused by one thing you said. About three years ago, my wife and I attended a Catholic Church to take my mother there because that is where she prefers to go and we partook of holy communion there. The priest did not say this communion is only for RCC members. I seriously doubt too that everyone there who took communion were members of the RCC family. Am I misinterpreting something you said? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warrior12 Posted May 14, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 54 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,428 Content Per Day: 0.88 Reputation: 1,516 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/05/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted May 14, 2017 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Spock said: Hmmmm. I'm a bit confused by one thing you said. About three years ago, my wife and I attended a Catholic Church to take my mother there because that is where she prefers to go and we partook of holy communion there. The priest did not say this communion is only for RCC members. I seriously doubt too that everyone there who took communion were members of the RCC family. Am I misinterpreting something you said? Did you read the Chruch service program pamphlet , as it it sure to be stated there. They take this very serious and even if you are baptized in a protestant church, you are not allowed to participate in communion in a Catholic Church. FOR OUR FELLOW CHRISTIANS We welcome our fellow Christians to this celebration of the Eucharist as our brothers and sisters. We pray that our common baptism and the action of the Holy Spirit in this Eucharist will draw us closer to one another and begin to dispel the sad divisions which separate us. We pray that these will lessen and finally disappear, in keeping with Christ's prayer for us "that they may all be one" (Jn 17:21). Because Catholics believe that the celebration of the Eucharist is a sign of the reality of the oneness of faith, life, and worship, members of those churches with whom we are not yet fully united are ordinarily not admitted to Holy Communion. Eucharistic sharing in exceptional circumstances by other Christians requires permission according to the directives of the diocesan bishop and the provisions of canon law (canon 844 §4). Members of the Orthodox Churches, the Assyrian Church of the East, and the Polish National Catholic Church are urged to respect the discipline of their own Churches. According to Roman Catholic discipline, the Code of Canon Law does not object to the reception of Communion by Christians of these Churches (canon 844 §3). http://www.usccb.org/ Edited May 14, 2017 by warrior12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happinessity Posted May 14, 2017 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 260 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 188 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/02/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 14, 2017 Has it occurred to anyone else? This entire thread's base question is, what are the ways and reasons we can look down on others who call themselves Christian when we do not approve them that title? Anybody? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted May 14, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted May 14, 2017 1 hour ago, warrior12 said: Did you read the Chruch service program pamphlet , as it it sure to be stated there. They take this very serious and even if you are baptized in a protestant church, you are not allowed to participate in communion in a Catholic Church. FOR OUR FELLOW CHRISTIANS We welcome our fellow Christians to this celebration of the Eucharist as our brothers and sisters. We pray that our common baptism and the action of the Holy Spirit in this Eucharist will draw us closer to one another and begin to dispel the sad divisions which separate us. We pray that these will lessen and finally disappear, in keeping with Christ's prayer for us "that they may all be one" (Jn 17:21). Because Catholics believe that the celebration of the Eucharist is a sign of the reality of the oneness of faith, life, and worship, members of those churches with whom we are not yet fully united are ordinarily not admitted to Holy Communion. Eucharistic sharing in exceptional circumstances by other Christians requires permission according to the directives of the diocesan bishop and the provisions of canon law (canon 844 §4). Members of the Orthodox Churches, the Assyrian Church of the East, and the Polish National Catholic Church are urged to respect the discipline of their own Churches. According to Roman Catholic discipline, the Code of Canon Law does not object to the reception of Communion by Christians of these Churches (canon 844 §3). http://www.usccb.org/ Wow! Interesting. Oh well......my mom subsequently has died, so I guess I won't be back there again (just in case they changed their policy). My brother, when he visits me, doesn't even bother to ask me to go to church with him (Catholic). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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